DUST Search - If BPOs are gamebreaking

DUST Fiend wrote:

ReGnYuM wrote:

IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:

I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear.

Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended.

Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable

My most used all BPO suit costs me 3,125 ISK if I payed for it

If you can't make a profit running that then you seriously need to reconsider your choice of game...

(not you, just people in general)

The only BPO doing any damage right now would be the LAV BPOs. Other than that....what's a couple thousand ISK between friends?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:44:00 - [1] - Quote Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game?
Thor McStrut Reckoners 267	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:47:00 - [2] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3531	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:51:00 - [3] - Quote Yup I hope they take my BPO and make them EVE BPO which I have to produce for my corp on my Indy character.
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1167	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:51:00 - [4] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. BPO'a are game breaking to the economy and the overall progression of Dust 514 as a whole. If you can't see this, then you're part of the problem
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2610	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7166	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:59:00 - [6] - Quote Oh noes, the enemy isn't paying for their militia gear
Michael Cratar Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY 256	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:32:00 - [7] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. BPO'a are game breaking to the economy and the overall progression of Dust 514 as a whole. If you can't see this, then you're part of the problem YAY! ReGnYuM is back!
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 658	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:33:00 - [8] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: I think BPOs are important to new characters and a decent way to generate some AUR sales for CCP. Thus, the simplest conclusion I can draw is to make BPOs Temporary Just like we have boosters for a day/week/month, buy a BPO for a day/week/month. Ex: Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 2000 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 month Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 500 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 week Purchase an Exile assault rifle for 100 AUR and get unlimited supply for 1 day Maybe you need to change the name of them if the name BPO implies "unlimited to infinity forever" but I can't think of a reason this wouldn't work. Has anyone mentioned this idea already? I haven't been following the issue. Thoughts?
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2108	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:34:00 - [9] - Quote It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 280	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:46:00 - [10] - Quote Unless Dust players get to produce and sell items BPOs will have no real impact on the Dust economy, and any impact they have on the EVE economy would practically be eclipsed by the relative income rates of EvE over Dust.

Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 153	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:48:00 - [11] - Quote Just make it so you have to pay for each copy taken from the original. Isk farm solved, and you can sell copies of your bpos for more than it costs. There we have it. Entrepreneurship in dust!
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 19:59:00 - [12] - Quote If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away.
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 926	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:03:00 - [13] - Quote there is no trade, therefore no economy.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:07:00 - [14] - Quote I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2324	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:18:00 - [15] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away. This is the reason BPOs are an economic issue. In the past use would be time limited because a player who could skill into better gear would stop using the BPO. With diminished advantages of higher level gear and low TTK the MLT items are quite competitive. There is some advantage to the good stuff, but it's not worth the cost unless winning means a whole lot which isn't often. You could solve the economic problem by dramatically increasing the advantage of winning, or by returning to the old advantages of higher meta levels. If CCP continues with tiericide neither of these options will work.
Gorra Snell the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 194	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:20:00 - [16] - Quote Something doesn't have to 'perfectly fine' or 'gamebreaking'...there's space inbetween. The existence of BPOs messes with the economic cycle of the game, but since they kept them restricted to STD and MLT gear, they only mess with it a bit. Surely, there were internal discussions where they weighed their options, and decided that removing sources of new BPOs would be better for the future of the game's economy without causing undue drama in the current playerbase, while removing the existing ones from everyone's inventories would start an epic **storm. I, for one, have bought a number of merc packs based on the BPOs included in them. Though it's almost certainly within their legal right to take those away, I would be pretty **** irritated, and might stop playing. I get why they want to cut off the source, though, and I'm fine with that. I suspect a lot of players see things from a similar perspective.
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1171	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:21:00 - [17] - Quote IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:21:00 - [18] - Quote Skihids wrote: Takron Nistrom wrote: If SEE SEE PEE hadnt normalized gear and kept prices crazy, MLT gear wouldnt be an issue, but its cheap and it doesnt mean much. Get rid of normalized gear and MLT gear will go away. This is the reason BPOs are an economic issue. In the past use would be time limited because a player who could skill into better gear would stop using the BPO. With diminished advantages of higher level gear and low TTK the MLT items are quite competitive. There is some advantage to the good stuff, but it's not worth the cost unless winning means a whole lot which isn't often. You could solve the economic problem by dramatically increasing the advantage of winning, or by returning to the old advantages of higher meta levels. If CCP continues with tiericide neither of these options will work. Agreed
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 76	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:23:00 - [19] - Quote You do gotta love the push to get people to buy all of the BPOs before they took them off the market, just to threaten us with their removal a week later. Signs of a game going places.
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:24:00 - [20] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more.

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:25:00 - [21] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable My most used all BPO suit costs me 3,125 ISK if I payed for it If you can't make a profit running that then you seriously need to reconsider your choice of game... (not you, just people in general) The only BPO doing any damage right now would be the LAV BPOs. Other than that....what's a couple thousand ISK between friends?
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 659	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:25:00 - [22] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable I agree with most of what you say but disagree with the underlined
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1171	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:27:00 - [23] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. Players should be gravitating toward PC and FW for high ISK rewards.
Takron Nistrom eHarmony Inc. 97	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:27:00 - [24] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable I agree with most of what you say but disagree with the underlined It is very hard to make money in empire, as it should be.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:39:00 - [25] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable My most used all BPO suit costs me 3,125 ISK if I payed for it If you can't make a profit running that then you seriously need to reconsider your choice of game... (not you, just people in general) The only BPO doing any damage right now would be the LAV BPOs. Other than that....what's a couple thousand ISK between friends? This ^^^ For example lets say I make 180,000 isk a game. I die 5 times with a all BPO crap suit and make 180,000 isk profit totally see where you're going with that Reg and it not promoting higher level game play, but if die 5 times in the same crap isk equivalent suit I spend 20,000 isk and make only 160,000 isk profit, is that extra 20,000 isk profit a game breaker. In both examples I'm using cheap crap and mining it to maximize profit, the removal of the BPO does nothing to change the behavior that you don't like, the only difference is one guy spent $20 to make a measly extra 20,000 isk. Removing the BPO will do nothing to change that behavior people will still use cheap crap, there are players that play an emergent style that only has to do with isk spent on their gear compared to what they destory that is not going to change. The only difference is they will not have an option to spend realy money to save chump change in fake money anymore.
Caeli SineDeo Imperfects Negative-Feedback 713	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:40:00 - [26] - Quote Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 77	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:49:00 - [27] - Quote CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 126	Posted - 2013.10.23 20:58:00 - [28] - Quote So BPO's are considered game breaking to the economy? Calling bullshit on that. You are what saving 600 ISK a pop? Also, they are the equivalent of Standard or Militia gear. Hardly overpowered. So somehow saving a couple thousand ISK a match is going to ruin the economy? If this is the case the economy for this game is going to be god awful and I want no part of it.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 127	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:02:00 - [29] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable And yet Highsec in EVE Online is highly profitable... so there goes that theory.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2110	Posted - 2013.10.23 21:03:00 - [30] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: CCP would have to refund me cold hard cash if they removed BPOs. Sony doesn't allow refunds beyond PSN cash.



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