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If BPOs are gamebreaking

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Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2116	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:15:00 - [61] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:21:00 - [62] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. Then don't tell your customers to buy these items today, while withholding the fact that you are going to be removing them tomorrow. Do you see my point, or are you arguing against me just because you don't like me?
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2120	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:43:00 - [63] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. Then don't tell your customers to buy these items today, while withholding the fact that you are going to be removing them tomorrow. Do you see my point, or are you arguing against me just because you don't like me? 1. This is the first time I've seen you so I really don't have an opinion of you yet 2. CCP probably didn't think that the open market was coming any time soon. The new EP was just hired a little over a month ago. Also they gave you a months notice that the BPOs were going to be removed from the market temporarily.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 747	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:20:00 - [64] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? maybe you should be watching more ccp videos and making less qq threads.
ladwar Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1910	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:22:00 - [65] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. the game is broke, badly. did the bf4 beta and had less issues. toke a 2 week break and wow.. i realize how much is really broken. dust still is very beta.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 75	Posted - 2013.10.24 00:24:00 - [66] - Quote Until BPOs cover the advanced or proto level gear and compete for top ranking by simply showing up and throwing clones at the enemy until victory, they are not game breaking. The only aspect which really changes the dynamic vs f2p players is that they are untraceable, which is a problem. If ccp would of let the bpo situation resolve itself it would of through trading, and also generated them more revenue. All I see is a bunch of free to play whiners.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2121	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:10:00 - [67] - Quote Slag Emberforge wrote: Until BPOs cover the advanced or proto level gear and compete for top ranking by simply showing up and throwing clones at the enemy until victory, they are not game breaking. The only aspect which really changes the dynamic vs f2p players is that they are untraceable, which is a problem. If ccp would of let the bpo situation resolve itself it would of through trading, and also generated them more revenue. All I see is a bunch of free to play whiners. I'm not claiming to be an economist but I do know that free items in any economy hurts it. Whether it's small or big it still has a bad effect on the economy. In which if there was even the slightest chance of hurting the economy I doubt CCP would risk it because it could ruin EVE since the economy is one of the biggest selling points of EVE.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 338	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:41:00 - [68] - Quote They will never get rid of the BPOs people bought. They will simply "balance" the stats until they are undesirable.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 174	Posted - 2013.10.24 01:59:00 - [69] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Rowdy Railgunner wrote: My beef is about the deceptive practices, not the actual items. You can't EULA away lying to your customers when real money is involved. If CCP knew that they were going to announce they want to get rid of BPOs, then don't scam people into buying them right before you announce that. And don't expect people to be fine with it either when you do. Everyone knew once the open market came that the BPOs would change. Also the reason why BPOs were taken off with little notice is because of the new EP which promised to get the open market up ASAP. It's not like CCP is doing this to fk you over. They're doing this so they can finally get this game where it was supposed to be months ago. Oh and BPOs are coming back just in a different way (Probably more like how EVEs BPOs work. This guy gets it.
Kaze Eyrou Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 381	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:02:00 - [70] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Why are they NOT being removed? Does CCP really lack the balls to give a small amount of refunds to fix a core problem with the game? Because they are not game breaking. The game is just broken, and unfinished. BPOs will work just fine once industry, PvE, and the market are introduced. I didn't define them as gamebreaking, CCP did. They said they aren't working as intended. "Not working as intended" =/= "game breaking" (all the time) But going on your theory, how are they gamebreaking?

Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1552	Posted - 2013.10.24 06:52:00 - [71] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Highsec should have a lower PROFIT MARGIN not profit, it should take much more time, PC is not stated as any intent... I like PC and you like PC but joe shmo might not...
Borne Velvalor Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 797	Posted - 2013.10.24 07:03:00 - [72] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: They will never get rid of the BPOs people bought. They will simply "balance" the stats until they are undesirable. The "stats" are identical to militia and standard gear, which sucks and is already cheap as dirt. If someone can "farm" ISK in free starter fits or BPOs it's because they die so much that using standard gear would cut into their winnings. I wear standard all day long and only die around 4 times in an Ambush. I don't think making an extra 40k when I'm pulling in 140k after costs is game breaking when BPOs have to be paid for. Either you would pay a ton of ISK on the market in the future and never make your money back, or pay AUR. If you use AUR, they are no worse than the boosters. Really not seeing a problem here. Make them cost resources when industry debuts. They are terrible investments, anyway.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 279	Posted - 2013.10.24 07:03:00 - [73] - Quote Takron Nistrom wrote: Or wat about this. Make how much isk u make be totally reliant on the gear u field and how well u do as an individual. Field high end gear, get paid more. This is a bad idea for so many reasons. Do you want to make proto-stomping sustainable?
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 259	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:11:00 - [74] - Quote Making current BPO's to eve BPO's would be a really stupid move. First off not every dust player is interested into eve and that would render it 100% worthless. Espacially cause i assume that on eve the BPO's will probs be thrown out of the window from NPC's for the regular low price. CCP has to think twice what they do about the BPO's. When they start removing them from player assets without compensating the last known AUR value then players will report CCP for scam/theft to various gaming sites/magazines and the reputation of the company would be badly damaged. Just ask yourself would you subscribe to a game like Eve online when the developer would be known to steal from the players? I dont think so. I assume that this whole "BPO removal" campaign will only focus on getting them off the market but not from the player assets. You have to think aswell about marketing. They create artifical pressure to players by telling them weeks before that they remove BPO's to get them to buy them.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 132	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:46:00 - [75] - Quote Just be careful buying anything from CCP on eBay. They sound like they'd list an auction for an iPhone and if you won would then send you the instructions for 'how to make an iphone'
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 441	Posted - 2013.10.24 08:49:00 - [76] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: I don't understand how free MLT changes anything, you can make enough isk in most matches to supply 100's of MLT suits, so a bpo mlt armor rep that normally costs 100 isk is game breaking? it not like this stuff is ADV or PRO. Honestly i have more BPO crap going back to may of 2012 than i can even count, I haven't used any of it once your able to field better gear. Heres the problem. People would rather make money endlessly grinding pubs in free suits. Rather than pushing themselves to go into PC and actually develop how the game intended. Highsec should not be profitable BPO's make Highsex profitable Total nonsense, people not doing PC has nothing to do with not having isk, its the crap way the whole system is setup and how it rewards people on top and discrimates people trying to enter. Free suits lol.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:07:00 - [77] - Quote I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet.
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2125	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:23:00 - [78] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:28:00 - [79] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP. My sides. You Dust University guys are so hilarious with your stupid ideas. I mean, this would be even better, so I would also get all my money spend for boosters and everything else back. Won't happen though. :(
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2125	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:34:00 - [80] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: I think this idea is perfect. Still, they need to return all my money I ever spend on BPOs into my PSN wallet. Sony would refund you the original amount since it would be going onto PSN and your dust account would most likely be wiped by CCP. My sides. You Dust University guys are so hilarious with your stupid ideas. I mean, this would be even better, so I would also get all my money spend for boosters and everything else back. Won't happen though. :( How would that be better unless you were planning on leaving dust (in which I would happily not mind if you do as long as you leave me your isk ) Also I have heard of people who have contacted Sony to get a refund before.

daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:42:00 - [81] - Quote Try harder.
excillon united we stand x 94	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:47:00 - [82] - Quote So the problem is that it affects the ISK gain by the other team? That's simple. Assign an ISK value (Ie: A Dren assault suit is worth the same as a STD assault suit) that the other team gets. I love my BPO's. No making copies, leave them alone. It's why I bought them. You really want to increase market activity and fix an economy? Modules for weapons, separate from dropsuits. Damage mod moves to the weapon, along with a ROF mod and accuracy mod. Then create the over/under attachments...like a 2 shot MD, shotgun for the AR for example. Sniper rifle over/under is a single shot flaylock round, more powerful than the pistol version or a scanner attachment directly fixed to the gun. You get the idea. A room full of over under users would mean to be competitive, the BPO users would have to buy the modules as well to attach to their rifles. Is it as much as a non BPO rifle would cost, no. But it would still increase ISK payout. I can't see how BPO's are gamebreaking. If anything, they help because real money is spent, and that's what keeps this game going. BPO's must be tied into the game and it's economy, not eliminated. There's a place for everything. Besides, if CCP was totally opposed to BPO's like they said, they wouldn't have warned everyone, they just would have pulled them.
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.10.24 09:55:00 - [83] - Quote There is 0 reason to remove BPOs You can run with STD gear, which has the same stats and costs close to nothing.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 100	Posted - 2013.11.01 11:39:00 - [84] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Here's another tidbit for those who say "do it the EVE way" ... CCP is actually trying to phase that out. New modules, for example, are released through controlled drops of BPC. They are still pushing this with the goal of taking back control of the economy/making the AUR store contain more temporary power ups, even after burn jita. So I would not bet on the EVE structure coming to DUST, since CCP doesn't like it in EVE already. Link or GTFO. CCP loves the risk of loss, as do I. The markets will be linked eventually and you'll soon be buying stuff built in Eve. This npc market you see in dust will be gone sooner than you think.
Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 174	Posted - 2013.11.21 03:37:00 - [85] - Quote Need to bump this because people laughed, now it is happening. The argument that, "I don't own that or this BPO so it doesn't effect me and I don't care" doesn't matter. They are starting down the road I foresaw, and unless you want to be swindled, ignore me. If not we need to shout at the top of our lungs that CASH IS THE ONLY REFUND WE WILL ACCEPT. Take every unit of AURUM from the BPOs you refund and put it into my PS account, not your shady business. I DON'T WANT AUR REFUND, I WANT CASH REFUND!
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 131	Posted - 2013.11.21 06:38:00 - [86] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caeli SineDeo wrote: Simple Fix turn all BPOs into paint jobs. Bang people go back to buying suits. Then on their fit they can select the paint job they want to run. If it is a caldari assault BPO it should switch so millitant to proto gain the paint job. I do not think many people would mind this. Probably even enjoy this because they can show off the cool looks on their proto gear. I know many of us told CCP BPOs where a bad idea when they first came out. Love how a year later they finally relize it. OR.... make them EVE BPO which have to be produced.... that would make a **** ton more sense. So what happens to DUST players who don't play EVE but purchased BPOs? Sell them to eve players on the p2p GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Rusty Shallows 520	Posted - 2013.11.21 07:24:00 - [87] - Quote IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: It's because during closed beta BPOs were cheap as dirt so people had stocked up on them. If CCP were to give a refund then there would be people with over 500k aur while they only bought like 200k aur. this is actually wrong on the transition from closed beta to open in January all bpo's were refunded at new market prices..if you wanted to keep your bpo you then bought it back..if not then u made a bunch of aur... the increase in aur because of bpo conversion and price increase has already occurred it did so in mid january..i personally had loads of duplicates of bpo's and bought 1 copy of each back and made about triple aur when that happened 30 aur to 1200 aur to 19800 aur or something like that Actually that is not true they didn't refund any BPO items in january for that exact reason. I'm still sitting on the BPO modules I bought in 2012 none were refunded when all the other assets were, if they do refund AUR spent on BPO items at current values I'll turn an AUR profit to the tune of $500 real dollars. Unless one is happy with AUR BPCs the Booster market can eat that money fast. Last time Passive Omega Boosters were on the market the price was around $36 a pop. Half off during Fanfest. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. 0	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:05:00 - [88] - Quote This "bpo's damages the economy"-argument is terribly flawed. If "free stuff" would damage the in-game economy, then how come all those completely free Ibis:es in Eve-online (outfitted with completely free weapons using infinite ammo, and a free mining laser) haven't screwed up Eves economy in the slightest?
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 772	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:30:00 - [89] - Quote I completely disagree that BPO's are game breaking and this is why; Each race has a free militia suit. With this suit you can farm any amount of isk you want for free. All that happenes with people who have BPO suits is more choice in what to equip. You can't protostomp with a BPO suit because there are no proto BPO's. You ant use advanced gear because there is no BPO advanced gear. Basically The people that are using BPO suits are saving just a small amount of isk compared to buying the equivalent militia items. I can run a militia suit (not BPO) fr around 4 to 10k isk. Even If I die 10 times thats a maximum of 100k isk I lose but if I'm a half decent player I'll be making more than that in the match. I can take it a step further and just use a starter suit and still make more isk. Stater suits are basically militia pre-made suits that are completely free. So there is no gamebreaking mechanic here. BPO's only damage the economy if it was HIGH END gear that makes you considerably stronger than anyone else for no isk. BPO's are far from that. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2629	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:19:00 - [90] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I command thee ... RISE FROM THE DEAD! Furthermore, the game-breaking is CCP's analysis, not my own.



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