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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2622
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1607
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Next to Aero's LAser/ASCR combination, the amount of useful Commando loadouts has increased a little:
Tested commando L weapon combinations: Laser+ASCR TAC+AR ASCR+MASS AR/ASCR+SWARM SNIPER+SWARM SCR R+SCR R
Anything else im missing? You only missing the one that TRULY works ; Mass Driver + Assault Rifle.
Well actually, the ASCR + Mass Driver works better. Dont take it wrong i'll explain.
The AR is obviously a superior weapon compared to the ASCR. Even if the ASCR has more damage, the dispersion rate and optimal ranges actually benefit the AR more. We agree.
But the ASCR + Mass combination covers each others weaknesses. The ASCR with 120% vs Shields The MASS with 120% vs Armor
At CQ, the ASCR + Mass combination is MORE effective than any other, with constant 120% damage vs enemies, high Damage and area denial options....
For longer ranges , the TAC+AR combination will do you best.
Areor said: ''The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit.''
This is true, you should see how much you can do for your team with appropiate height, a sNiper rifle and a Swarm Launcher (My favored Commando fit) In the MAp with 3 objectives i can negate the enemy from taking ''A'' All game while spamming their vehicles with my swarms.... 1 Commando suit, f@cking up a whole team. It almost feels OP. (just kidding on this one...) |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1622
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not.
WoOw.. to many words...i just going to do my normal thing and just pick the bit that interest me the most.
I using the MD+AR combo because Suppression + Self Defense. Mass Driver to keep people away from me ( Because I die very quickly ) and AR to defend myself if they get to close to me. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2622
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:29:00 -
[64] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not. WoOw.. to many words...i just going to do my normal thing and just pick the bit that interest me the most. I using the MD+AR combo because Suppression + Self Defense. Mass Driver to keep people away from me ( Because I die very quickly ) and AR to defend myself if they get to close to me. And ok, that is totally valid! However, you have to keep in mind this is a support suit, so suppression for the squad self defense for yourself. If you're going to try and rambo it, you'd be better off going assault and picking either the MD or AR. And since it's a support suit, stop f***ing around with damage mods. If you need more damage, get your proficiency up. Just like the logistics, who is also a support role (though a different type of support), defense is most important. You can't support if you are dead. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1622
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Banning Hammer wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not. WoOw.. to many words...i just going to do my normal thing and just pick the bit that interest me the most. I using the MD+AR combo because Suppression + Self Defense. Mass Driver to keep people away from me ( Because I die very quickly ) and AR to defend myself if they get to close to me. And ok, that is totally valid! However, you have to keep in mind this is a support suit, so suppression for the squad self defense for yourself. If you're going to try and rambo it, you'd be better off going assault and picking either the MD or AR. And since it's a support suit, stop f***ing around with damage mods. If you need more damage, get your proficiency up. Just like the logistics, who is also a support role (though a different type of support), defense is most important. You can't support if you are dead.
Trust me... i don't even think about Assaulting, it always ends badly. I use the Commando as a Point-defense Suit. Or in FPS terms ... "Camping an objective". I agree with the Damage Modules, Shields are much better. But you still need a lot of Core skills to make the most of it. |
Alldin Kan
TeamPlayers EoN.
660
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 23:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not. Commando suit will always be easy to hit so there's no point in putting an extra extender if I can't get back that HP right away. As for the whole support suit thing, any Assault with good aim on scrambler pistol or a heavily skilled SMG can treat those sidearms as a light weapon (AR/SMG, SR/SMG, Sniper/SMG or SP, Swarm/SMG or SP, LR/SMG, MD/SP...) basically making the Commando Irrelevant, which is why I try to treat the suit as infantry killer.
1. Allotek Nanohive (R) gives 40 Armor HP every 2 seconds AND ammo. 2. Above mention. 3. Extenders are a temporary bonus to HP, once it's gone I'll likely die. Dmg mods are bonus permanent regardless of HP remaining. 4. AR has better Accuracy than Scrambler Rifle, don't like it then use other fit I mentioned. Shotgun is good on any suit if you're in a CQC map.
IF Logi suits were close to being weak as scouts and IF Commando had 2 equipment slots with slightly higher CPU/PG, then I would call it a support class. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2622
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 23:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
Well, I still think you are too close minded with your weapon choices. Too much AR or MD (easy mode assault weapons), not enough of every other light weapon. To be honest, I believe the laser rifle is the Commando's best friend. Very surprised that every time I hear someone discussing the commando they never bring up laser rifle, which is the ultimate mid-range killer, combined with any other more assault-oriented weapon.
And come on, the Commando suit obviously going to always be easy to hit because it's a heavy frame. That's all the more reason to add more buffer! Did you think I was suggesting adding shield extenders will somehow make it easy to strafe? lol. Just find it silly that you will take any heavy frame suit and do nothing outside of passive skills to buff it's HP. |
Alldin Kan
TeamPlayers EoN.
660
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Well, I still think you are too close minded with your weapon choices. Too much AR or MD (easy mode assault weapons), not enough of every other light weapon. To be honest, I believe the laser rifle is the Commando's best friend. Very surprised that every time I hear someone discussing the commando they never bring up laser rifle, which is the ultimate mid-range killer, combined with any other more assault-oriented weapon.
And come on, the Commando suit obviously going to always be easy to hit because it's a heavy frame. That's all the more reason to add more buffer! Did you think I was suggesting adding shield extenders will somehow make it easy to strafe? lol. Just find it silly that you will take any heavy frame suit and do nothing outside of passive skills to buff it's HP. Laser is ok but TAC AR is still the best for long range and doesn't easily show your location. If I try to add more buffer, all I'm doing is increase survivalbility for the first encounter, the damage mods together with healing nanohives means I'll kill faster and keep repairing damage taken. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2643
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:A little clarification on the above post, Alldin is trying to act all elite by fitting a proto commando with an assault suit mentality, then complaining when it doesn't do as well as the assault suit.
I mean 2 complex damage mods, really? And by doing that requiring a CPU mod for your one low? Are you honestly trying to make a glass cannon out of the largest infantry hitbox in the game?
The Commando is a support suit, not an assault suit. And it does support a lot better than the assault can because you offer a much broader versatility than any other suit (the problem is such support isn't really needed). The commando is a niche role, and if you are going to use it here's a few things you have to do,
1) The low slot goes to an armor plate. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can already hear the shield tankers complaining because armor makes you slow, well #dealwithit
2) Equipment goes to a triage hive so you can actually rep yourself, unless you have a dedicated logi.
3) Highs go to shield extenders. I don't care what you think about how little it adds or how bad the shield regen rate is, because guess what? You have no passive armor regen. Every bit of buffer to prevent that armor from getting tapped is important.
4) You need weapons that compliment eachother in range. If you want to use AR and mass driver for "stripping away shields then tearing apart armor," well one: you are stupid for picking the AR since the AScR strips shields faster, two: by the time you switch weapons and readjust your aim you could of probably just killed the guy by sticking with your original weapon, and three: this means you are probably trying to assault which is not what the suit is for. If you're going to use a MD and AR, then you're best using the MD for getting people at range then the AR if people get close. Also shotgun on a commando is dumb, because again you're taking a slow suit with the largest infantry hitbox and trying to charge and get up close.
I mean, use what you want, that's what Dust is about, but in my opinion you're just not taking advantages of any of the suits strengths and instead trying to make it something it's not. Commando suit will always be easy to hit so there's no point in putting an extra extender if I can't get back that HP right away. As for the whole support suit thing, any Assault with good aim on scrambler pistol or a heavily skilled SMG can treat those sidearms as a light weapon (AR/SMG, SR/SMG, Sniper/SMG or SP, Swarm/SMG or SP, LR/SMG, MD/SP...) basically making the Commando Irrelevant, which is why I try to treat the suit as infantry killer. 1. Allotek Nanohive (R) gives 40 Armor HP every 2 seconds AND ammo. 2. Above mention. 3. Extenders are a temporary bonus to HP, once it's gone I'll likely die. Dmg mods are bonus permanent regardless of HP remaining. 4. AR has better Accuracy than Scrambler Rifle, don't like it then use other fit I mentioned. Shotgun is good on any suit if you're in a CQC map. IF Logi suits were close to being weak as scouts and IF Commando had 2 equipment slots with slightly higher CPU/PG, then I would call it a support class.
I think we need to talk to CCP about that. Since when could blaster tech be more accurate and damaging longer ranges than laser tech? |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1932
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:I've used this exact fit a time or two with decent success.
The MD is a good complimentary weapon for the laser, too. It's great for picking off bads that have taken cover from your LR.
Sadly Aero has a condition. He cant touch dirty MInmatar weapons without feeling queasy.
I feel the slime every time I put on my Amarr Dropsuit but manage to tough it out. Just goes to show the Amarr don't have the intestinal fortitude needed to get the job done. |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2622
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 00:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Well, I still think you are too close minded with your weapon choices. Too much AR or MD (easy mode assault weapons), not enough of every other light weapon. To be honest, I believe the laser rifle is the Commando's best friend. Very surprised that every time I hear someone discussing the commando they never bring up laser rifle, which is the ultimate mid-range killer, combined with any other more assault-oriented weapon.
And come on, the Commando suit obviously going to always be easy to hit because it's a heavy frame. That's all the more reason to add more buffer! Did you think I was suggesting adding shield extenders will somehow make it easy to strafe? lol. Just find it silly that you will take any heavy frame suit and do nothing outside of passive skills to buff it's HP. Laser is ok but TAC AR is still the best for long range and doesn't easily show your location. If I try to add more buffer, all I'm doing is increase survivalbility for the first encounter, the damage mods together with healing nanohives means I'll kill faster and keep repairing damage taken. HAHAHA, no. The TAR has nothing on the LR. Like, not even close. Also, besides the fact that you shouldn't be losing your buffer on your first encounter, it doesn't matter how fast you can kill if you have a huge hitbox for everyone to attack. HP is more important.
Don't mean to be rude, but I believe your fit is very poorly thought out. And of course, you believe mine is. I think it would be fun some time to prove whose theory is better. A 1v1 wouldn't work at all because most the time in battle a commando isn't fighting another commando, would be much better to squad up and simply see who can perform better against the same enemies. I'd bet my advanced commando would do better than your proto commando. |
Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 01:14:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dual-wielding massdriver commando suit for the win. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2646
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 01:28:00 -
[73] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:True Adamance wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:I've used this exact fit a time or two with decent success.
The MD is a good complimentary weapon for the laser, too. It's great for picking off bads that have taken cover from your LR.
Sadly Aero has a condition. He cant touch dirty MInmatar weapons without feeling queasy. I feel the slime every time I put on my Amarr Dropsuit but manage to tough it out. Just goes to show the Amarr don't have the intestinal fortitude needed to get the job done. We'' admittedly a paladin binds the suit to his spine when using an Amarrian dropsuit, perhaps its just me but I long since grew accustom to its presence, though is swear the sheer number of Minmatar renegades making use of superior AMarrian weapons and armour is astounding. I guess its simply because the Amarr make things better.
Long R and D processes after all. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2623
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 01:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:True Adamance wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:I've used this exact fit a time or two with decent success.
The MD is a good complimentary weapon for the laser, too. It's great for picking off bads that have taken cover from your LR.
Sadly Aero has a condition. He cant touch dirty MInmatar weapons without feeling queasy. I feel the slime every time I put on my Amarr Dropsuit but manage to tough it out. Just goes to show the Amarr don't have the intestinal fortitude needed to get the job done. We'' admittedly a paladin binds the suit to his spine when using an Amarrian dropsuit, perhaps its just me but I long since grew accustom to its presence, though is swear the sheer number of Minmatar renegades making use of superior AMarrian weapons and armour is astounding. I guess its simply because the Amarr make things better. Long R and D processes after all. Wait what? Where is this in the lore? I must know. |
Alldin Kan
TeamPlayers EoN.
661
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 01:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:HAHAHA, no. The TAR has nothing on the LR. Like, not even close. Also, besides the fact that you shouldn't be losing your buffer on your first encounter, it doesn't matter how fast you can kill if you have a huge hitbox for everyone to attack. HP is more important. Don't mean to be rude, but I believe your fit is very poorly thought out. And of course, you believe mine is. I think it would be fun some time to prove whose theory is better. A 1v1 wouldn't work at all because most the time in battle a commando isn't fighting another commando, would be much better to squad up and simply see who can perform better against the same enemies. I'd bet my advanced commando would do better than your proto commando. 1. 100+m optimal disagrees with that. 2. You mean must be referring to running away while under fire, which is only good plus. The DPS is what helped me kill faster to avoid unnecessary damage and got me a 10+ k/dr. 3. Contact added, but can't play now. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2647
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:True Adamance wrote:Talos Alomar wrote:I've used this exact fit a time or two with decent success.
The MD is a good complimentary weapon for the laser, too. It's great for picking off bads that have taken cover from your LR.
Sadly Aero has a condition. He cant touch dirty MInmatar weapons without feeling queasy. I feel the slime every time I put on my Amarr Dropsuit but manage to tough it out. Just goes to show the Amarr don't have the intestinal fortitude needed to get the job done. We'' admittedly a paladin binds the suit to his spine when using an Amarrian dropsuit, perhaps its just me but I long since grew accustom to its presence, though is swear the sheer number of Minmatar renegades making use of superior AMarrian weapons and armour is astounding. I guess its simply because the Amarr make things better. Long R and D processes after all. Wait what? Where is this in the lore? I must know. Look at the Amarr heavy, I swore the lore said a heavy user was using a clone with an augmented spine. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2630
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 03:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
So Alldin and I squadded up today. I'd say my advanced Commando listed here outperformed his proto commando with his listed fit, but at the end of the day everyone is different and what works for me may not work for you and vice-versa. Although, I did get a good chuckle out of the following,
Alldin Kan wrote:This is why I don't use commando: anyone in any suit can easily kill me. Complaining about people easily killing you, yet not putting any shield extenders or armor plates on your fit? Ha!
Disclaimer: Alldin Kan is a great Dust player! Please don't take this as me saying I'm better than him, that's not at all what I'm getting at. He'd probably tear me to shreds head to head both using our best fits (neither of which are commandos). |
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