Not at all.

There is nothing stopping you...

I know a guy that uses scrambler pistol as a primary. scary bastard at times.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

There is nothing stopping you...

I know a guy that uses scrambler pistol as a primary. scary bastard at times.

That's what I thought. And that's the reason for sharpshooter 4, and of course prof 4 for more damage.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

I'm a CQC person. I think it can be at least better than a GEK. Duvolle with prof 5 anf 3 complex damage mods... no.

They use to make it shoot further in chrome, but in uprising they made is dispersion. I want all shots to hit. That's why I['m skilled in it.

They use to make it shoot further in chrome, but in uprising they made is dispersion. I want all shots to hit. That's why I['m skilled in it.

I can confirm it's the most important SMG skill to level up after Proficiency. (Sniper skill)

.

I know what you mean. But you can also aim XD

No offense;but i dont have a single sniper skill into my SMGs and i really dont think i miss at all...
If i die is because i lost the DPS war (or you know, because i run around in a 400 HP scout)

The SMG is actually VERY precise while under the reflex sight.

within its optimal if you start shooting first then its a match for the AR, if they are shooting you first however, RUN.

its a weapon for suits that can dictate the engagement range as well as disengage if things arnt favorable.

this means its best on scouts and minmatar assault (logi as well depending on the build)

my 2 main guns are mass drivers and SMGs.


shotguns are your bane, so make sure you keep range on them and dance.


its all about getting inside the SMG optimal

The smg is an excellent weapon when used as a primary, pending proper use of optimal ranges. With the scout's mobility it is very nice and it also is an excellent weapon for Logis looking for more CPU/PG without giving up stopping power. They also typically don't logi in open terrain so you can make good use of the range while repping.

A minmatar suit can also increase the amount of ammo in the clip, giving you the range and dps of the assault smg with 100 rounds in a clip. Its a big deal lol.

Disagree.

The reason why you need to get sharpshooter is simple.

Sharpshooter reduces dispersion, turning the spray into a nice tight hailstorm of bullets. This also increases DPS with accuracy, as more and more bullets will end up on target.

Also, you can fire longer before it turns into a spray. At high levels (3-5) you can hipfire it in long bursts with AMAZING accuracy, even at a distance.

It is necessary to truly make the SMG shine.

well, it depends, right?

if you use a scanner, and you know where your mark is, then yeah, it's tough as nails. but you won't be able to take down two before reload.

I use an smg (a toxin due to my lackluster core skills) with my laser rifle. the rifle stops doing damage at 50m, and the smg can do damage okay at 20m. so, it's a pretty big dead zone.

with the md you get less dead zone, but it's not quite as effective.

with the ar, it's like having two ar's.

Indeed +1. When i tried using the plasma cannon i skillend into Minmatar Assault JUST for the SMG clip bonus.

1 plasma shot (some AV capacity too) and 100 SMG bullets do,kind of work XD[/b]

Kinetic weapons have a pretty good damage profile.

it is not entirely kinetic, the SMG uses either Carbonized Lead or Titanium Sabot rounds which also do tiny amounts of explosive damage :)

Disagree.

The reason why you need to get sharpshooter is simple.

Sharpshooter reduces dispersion, turning the spray into a nice tight hailstorm of bullets. This also increases DPS with accuracy, as more and more bullets will end up on target.

Also, you can fire longer before it turns into a spray. At high levels (3-5) you can hipfire it in long bursts with AMAZING accuracy, even at a distance.

It is necessary to truly make the SMG shine.

Real (Wo)men run it on a Logi Suit.

YES!

the dual Ishukone SMG is amazing and I run it on a minmatar scout.

You can dual them with proto and enough CPU / PG upgrades.

You want a speed fit even though now viability of scout speed fits is questionable. I have seen some successful scouts running Dual Ishukones.

You can run a decent fit with m1 scout + Ish main and a breach SMG offhand. The Breach helps with ranged engagements

really fun fit.

Real (Wo)men run it on a Logi Suit.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

Yeah. It's a console game, which means you spam L1 & R1 as fast as possible, and auto aim does the rest. Works for pretty much any gun in any console game ever created. Enjoy.

SMG's out dmg HMG's at all but in your face ranges (<5m). Why would you not want one?

SMG's out dmg HMG's at all but in your face ranges (<5m). Why would you not want one?

I honestly feel BAD for heavies when i turn them to MUSH in CQC.

SMG SQUAD FTW INDEED.

PSSST Dont tell anyone but i think we all went proto SMG after last weeks escapades Should be a fun weekend!

I'm a CQC person. I think it can be at least better than a GEK. Duvolle with prof 5 anf 3 complex damage mods... no.

max possible dps on HMG is ~890 which you can reliable do around 10m and will still deal ~2/3 of this dps at 20m if you can AIM. I would really like to see an SMG doing such amounts of damage.

I agree. I have only prof 2 and sharpshooter 2 and I prefer it to the GEK prof 3 sharpshooter 3 anywhere within range. I also run minmatar assault suits though so the clip bonus is a big part of it.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

I run a dual SMG fit on my Minmatar Assault, and have gone 25/4 with 16 assists in one match.

Its beast if you actually take the time to aim, and the recoil will actually give you a headshot if you start at center mass.

Right now my fit includes a complex sidearm damage mod, and will have two when my suit is proto. I am also running an Assault SMG with a regular SMG as my secondary, but I think that I am going to switch it to a Breach soon.

When the Magsec comes out (whenever that is ) I will try to fit that on my suit, as supposedly, its base form is 'long range'.

Absolutely true. Using the Toxin SMG, SMG Sharpshooter 5, and feathering has gotten me a few kills at ranges the other guy was probably calling BS. At least at times when the game was registering my hits.

My advice, don't use a breach. The assault is better to no end trust me. The breach may have power but is slower, more recoil. You'll be missing more and it ALSO to boot has less ammo in a clip. Run dual Ishukone Assault, the best I've ever gone with that fit is 41-1, and bloody hell it is a strong fit, don't go breach.

I want a breach, because I panic when people are too close, and the slower ROF will actually give me a chance to still kill them. 3 of the 4 death in the match I mentioned in post were from people closing on me and circling me or nearby terrain.

However, two Assault SMGs would allow to keep the engagement at longer range.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

Dual SMG scout in cities can be devastating.

Dual SMG scout in cities can be devastating.

amarian logi is better for smg and of the min class i would say the assault is better with the smg than the scout or logi as it comes with that extra ammo trait..duel wielding any close end weapon is pretty stupid as you are limiting your suits response abilities to close range only doesnt matter if you use a breach when most other proto smg user will engage you at range first..with a range type weapon a scout witha ar/smg will beat a smg/smg scout anyday unless they are terribad at fps

Anything a scout can do, assault can do it with more HP. I usually turn up the sensitivity on the DS3 to enhance CQC maneuverable, and strafe aim + spray... Proficiency 4 and Sharpshooter 4 are enough to compete at medium range.

I know several. The cult is well connected. You are lucky to know one of us. Now Silencio!

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

Select Domination Game mode

Amarr heavy frame ak.0
2x Complex damage mods
2x Calas SMG
Proto grenade of choice
Plates

Logi with a core focused.

You now own the close spaces.

Get those both to 5 and you'll be like several in our corp that run dual SMG's or even Shotgun SMG which completely makes up for the AR as a replacement.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

My boy, SMGs are my babies. Put me in front of a boundlesss HMG, a Duvolle or anything (Except a freedom mass driver) and I will kill you. Easily. My skills in it aren't even that high, but I'm good with them. Sure if the Boundless has 1500 HP behind it, it takes more doing than just a straight up gun fight. The HP determines how easy it is to kill someone, as well as their skill.

The question of 'is this gun better than this one' is not valid, the player behind the gun counts. Sure, a Boundless HMG statistically should be able to out-kill a proto pistol but I've seen people wipe the field clean with just a pistol, knives, plasma cannon, whatever!

YOU determine how effective your weapon is, not the stats. Among all the QQ about something being OP or UP every weapon can still kill, you just have to learn how to use it.

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

Course not, a weapon can never replace another. It is always different in every way.

Anything a scout can do, assault can do it with more HP. I usually turn up the sensitivity on the DS3 to enhance CQC maneuverable, and strafe aim + spray... Proficiency 4 and Sharpshooter 4 are enough to compete at medium range.

Late to respond and you are right on point.

I have had success with alternating the breach to Ishukone it is situational.

The breach hits good at range and the ishukone is the finisher. I "pull" ppl with the breach.

I run Ish Assault primary but switch in open areas to breach. It just works for me.

Not exactly true - an Assault can't do the sneaky sneaky that a Scout excels at.

i can see how it would work vs scrubs i had my dragon fly fitted that way once.

but how well would that breach hold up against a skilled ar with a user that understands ranges.. for example gallente assault...using the high powers for dmg mods would a duvoulle/smg with 1 light weapon dmg mod 1 sidearm dmg mod armor tanked vs assault smg/breach smg with 2 sidearm dmg mods. i wish i had the time to do the math and really compare this but 2 years of doing crap like this in dust has left me tired yawns. but anywho like ur breach smg idea i suppose if you only have the smg maxed that would be an awesome way of compensating. smg is and always will be my fav sidearm ...really curious about the dmgmod gallente build comparison though..

mmmm no not sneaky buta min assault can run up in your face quick and benefit from that nasty ammo trait. and not be a 1 hit kill for every kind of splash damage in dust

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

I have a question. If you have SMG prof 4, and sharpshooter 4, and using the assault ishikune version, can it be a good AR replacement for short to mid range combat to conserve CPU/PG?

YES!

the dual Ishukone SMG is amazing and I run it on a minmatar scout.

You can dual them with proto and enough CPU / PG upgrades.

You want a speed fit even though now viability of scout speed fits is questionable. I have seen some successful scouts running Dual Ishukones.

You can run a decent fit with m1 scout + Ish main and a breach SMG offhand. The Breach helps with ranged engagements

really fun fit.