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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1060
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote: Then it isn't obvious. To you it may be. But to majority it isn't.
The majority doesn't even know the difference, but even those who don't will say things like "damn how does he strafe like that" and I will say something like "what do you mean", then the person will say "he moves so...fast"...
It seems that way to the observer because the Kb/M strafer doesn't slow down when side to side strafing. The DS3 user is forced to slow down, then speed up, making him appear to move "slower" when changing directions.
If you honestly don't believe me, test it with your corp mates.
Have one who uses a Kb/M line up behind another who uses a DS3.
Ensure they are both in the same Dropsuit and make sure they both have the same level in Biotics. (movement speed effects strafe, sprint speed, and modules do not)
Have them to begin strafing at the same time changing directions in 3 second intervals.
If strafing is the same for both inputs, they will always remain in the same proximity to eachother as when they started strafing.
If they do not (which they won't) you will see the difference.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles
152
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote: Then it isn't obvious. To you it may be. But to majority it isn't.
The majority doesn't even know the difference, but even those who don't will say things like "damn how does he strafe like that" and I will say something like "what do you mean", then the person will say "he moves so...fast"... It seems that way to the observer because the Kb/M strafer doesn't slow down when side to side strafing. The DS3 user is forced to slow down, then speed up, making him appear to move "slower" when changing directions. If you honestly don't believe me, test it with your corp mates. Have one who uses a Kb/M line up behind another who uses a DS3. Ensure they are both in the same Dropsuit and make sure they both have the same level in Biotics. (movement speed effects strafe, sprint speed and modules do not) Have them to begin strafing at the same time changing directions in 3 second intervals. If strafing is the same for both inputs, they will always remain in the same proximity to eachother as when they started strafing. If they do not (which they won't) you will see the difference.
You understand we get probably the most no show's in PC.. in probably the history of PC's and duel nonstop sometimes for hour's?
Please... your understanding in DUST is | | <---- small
And you pretend like you know stuff its pathetic. even the stuff you say call's you out to anyone who know's better.
Keep making excuses why you die and accept mediocrity... Its the Proto, its the Kb/M, its the lag, its the tower camping... Your like a broken record...
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Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
How anyone can say they cannot tell the difference between seeing the way ds3 and kb/m uses move is beyond me.
Coming from a PC background up until 5 or so years ago, even I who is fast approaching 40 can see it.
Whoever compared analogue controllers with digital keyboards basically proved it. Most kb are digital so when you strafe you arr getting instant acceleration to full movement by tapping two keys. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1558
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ynned Ivanova wrote:How anyone can say they cannot tell the difference between seeing the way ds3 and kb/m uses move is beyond me.
Coming from a PC background up until 5 or so years ago, even I who is fast approaching 40 can see it.
Whoever compared analogue controllers with digital keyboards basically proved it. Most kb are digital so when you strafe you arr getting instant acceleration to full movement by tapping two keys.
I heard, that if you tap the keys with your head, you strafe even faster !!! Try it !!! it rocks !! I strafing so fast now that i can't even see my ALT moving... is supersonic !! |
Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 18:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Dont be a tard all your life. Take a day off. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1063
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:You understand we get probably the most no show's in PC.. in probably the history of PC's and duel nonstop sometimes for hour's? Please... your understanding in DUST is | | <---- small And you pretend like you know stuff its pathetic. even the stuff you say call's you out to anyone who know's better. Keep making excuses why you die and accept mediocrity... Its the Proto, its the Kb/M, its the lag , its the tower camping... Your like a broken record... LOL, ok dude if you say so.
I don't know ****. I'm 31 years old, but haven't learned a god damned thing all my life.
I have no common sense, and cannot observe blatantly obvious discrepancies in the functionality of a video game.
I only make excuses for my losses because I don't want to admit that I'm so god awful at this game.
new players with 500SP, no corp, and no squad can compete against a team consisting of stacked squads of Proto stompers who have all of their core skills maxed out.
There is no difference between Kb/M and DS3...it's just the imagination of myself and everyone else who says there is.
Oh, and I don't want to play PC because I'm afraid, not because it is currently not enjoyable because of lag issues including framerate and input latency as well as frequent disconnects.
yep...you got me...what can I say
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
102
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
This topic is very simple for anyone who has any idea how the two input methods work.
KB/M left-right strafing:
1. Press A - instantly 100% speed strafe left 2. Press D - instantly 100% speed strafe right Commentary: It is impossible to make the keys do less than 100% instant movement speed. They are digital - you move 100% or don't move. So you can - in fact, it is hard not to - achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D.
DS3 left-right strafing:
1. Push left on DS3 stick - instantly there is something like 5% movement left. 2. Then it is 10%, then 20%, then 30%, as you move the stick further left. 3. You only reach 100% movement left speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the left. 4. Push right on DS3 stick - you first go through 90%, 80%, 70% LEFT (i.e. the opposite of what you want...) as you move the stick from it's 95% left position. 5. Eventually you reach the central (neutral) position, then 5%, 10%, etc movement right. 6. You only reach 100% movement right speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the right. Commentary: It is impossible to make the DS3 do more than 5% (approx) instant movement speed. It is analogue - you cannot help but 5%, then 10%, etc as the stick slides across. So you cannot achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D; the biggest instant change you can achieve from 100% left is to go to something like 90% left
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Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:This topic is very simple for anyone who has any idea how the two input methods work.
KB/M left-right strafing:
1. Press A - instantly 100% speed strafe left 2. Press D - instantly 100% speed strafe right Commentary: It is impossible to make the keys do less than 100% instant movement speed. They are digital - you move 100% or don't move. So you can - in fact, it is hard not to - achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D.
DS3 left-right strafing:
1. Push left on DS3 stick - instantly there is something like 5% movement left. 2. Then it is 10%, then 20%, then 30%, as you move the stick further left. 3. You only reach 100% movement left speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the left. 4. Push right on DS3 stick - you first go through 90%, 80%, 70% LEFT (i.e. the opposite of what you want...) as you move the stick from it's 95% left position. 5. Eventually you reach the central (neutral) position, then 5%, 10%, etc movement right. 6. You only reach 100% movement right speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the right. Commentary: It is impossible to make the DS3 do more than 5% (approx) instant movement speed. It is analogue - you cannot help but 5%, then 10%, etc as the stick slides across. So you cannot achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D; the biggest instant change you can achieve from 100% left is to go to something like 90% left
Thanks for posting what I cba doing on this pos phone. |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1560
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 19:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:This topic is very simple for anyone who has any idea how the two input methods work.
KB/M left-right strafing:
1. Press A - instantly 100% speed strafe left 2. Press D - instantly 100% speed strafe right Commentary: It is impossible to make the keys do less than 100% instant movement speed. They are digital - you move 100% or don't move. So you can - in fact, it is hard not to - achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D.
DS3 left-right strafing:
1. Push left on DS3 stick - instantly there is something like 5% movement left. 2. Then it is 10%, then 20%, then 30%, as you move the stick further left. 3. You only reach 100% movement left speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the left. 4. Push right on DS3 stick - you first go through 90%, 80%, 70% LEFT (i.e. the opposite of what you want...) as you move the stick from it's 95% left position. 5. Eventually you reach the central (neutral) position, then 5%, 10%, etc movement right. 6. You only reach 100% movement right speed with the stick at (I believe) 95% to the right. Commentary: It is impossible to make the DS3 do more than 5% (approx) instant movement speed. It is analogue - you cannot help but 5%, then 10%, etc as the stick slides across. So you cannot achieve instant change from 100% left to 100% right by alternating A and D; the biggest instant change you can achieve from 100% left is to go to something like 90% left
So first was the Mouse, now is the Keyboard .. whats next ? People using Huge TV's ?
I just going to love seeing how CCP is going to try nerfing the keyboard... is going to be spectacular. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
206
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, I was just arguing with someone about the strafing abilities of Kb/M users. There are those who insist there is no difference between strafing with the Kb/M and strafing with the DS3. Go figure. Honestly there is no difference... OP probably just can't consistently aim at a moving target... Turn AA On? Deadzone vs No Deadzone? You really think that's the same? KB/M instant left to right. Ds3 have to pass through the deadzone to switch direction- slows strafing.
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Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1560
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, I was just arguing with someone about the strafing abilities of Kb/M users. There are those who insist there is no difference between strafing with the Kb/M and strafing with the DS3. Go figure. Honestly there is no difference... OP probably just can't consistently aim at a moving target... Turn AA On? Deadzone vs No Deadzone? You really think that's the same? KB/M instant left to right. Ds3 have to pass through the deadzone to switch direction- slows strafing.
You guys are just bad at the game, probably bad at every single game you play ... I only been using the DS3 for few days and i'm already getting 2.0 K/D ratio scores in regular basics.
Is this the type of players you want CCP ? |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
415
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:31:00 -
[42] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, I was just arguing with someone about the strafing abilities of Kb/M users. There are those who insist there is no difference between strafing with the Kb/M and strafing with the DS3. Go figure. Honestly there is no difference... OP probably just can't consistently aim at a moving target... Turn AA On? Deadzone vs No Deadzone? You really think that's the same? KB/M instant left to right. Ds3 have to pass through the deadzone to switch direction- slows strafing. You guys are just bad at the game, probably bad at every single game you play ... I only been using the DS3 for few days and i'm already getting 2.0 K/D ratio scores in regular basics. Is this the type of players you want CCP ? Coming from a guy who is so great at video games, he can't tell the difference of a kb/m and ds3 strafe.. is that why you never post how great you are on your main? All day now I have seen you spew nonsense at jaraiya. No one uses kb/m anymore? Tell that to the 10-20 people in my corp still using kb/m. I love the complaining about trolls part, because you are the only troll I see here |
Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Yeah were bad youre so awesome.
At trolling.
Maybe. |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
1459
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I was just in a game where a HEAVY was strafeing so fast back and forth that I was unable to land any bullets from my SMG despite haveing my DS3 settings at 100 and 100.
After the game I sent a mail asking WTF and the response was KB/M dancing FTW.
So I decided to go play Fallout New Vegas. On Friday I will play BF4 Open Beta.
Anywho November and Black Friday for a PS4.
Getting real tired of unbalanced gameplay.
dude. heavys need all the help they can get, leave them alone. Turn AA on if your having trouble |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1560
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 20:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Banning Hammer wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, I was just arguing with someone about the strafing abilities of Kb/M users. There are those who insist there is no difference between strafing with the Kb/M and strafing with the DS3. Go figure. Honestly there is no difference... OP probably just can't consistently aim at a moving target... Turn AA On? Deadzone vs No Deadzone? You really think that's the same? KB/M instant left to right. Ds3 have to pass through the deadzone to switch direction- slows strafing. You guys are just bad at the game, probably bad at every single game you play ... I only been using the DS3 for few days and i'm already getting 2.0 K/D ratio scores in regular basics. Is this the type of players you want CCP ? Coming from a guy who is so great at video games, he can't tell the difference of a kb/m and ds3 strafe.. is that why you never post how great you are on your main? All day now I have seen you spew nonsense at jaraiya. No one uses kb/m anymore? Tell that to the 10-20 people in my corp still using kb/m. I love the complaining about trolls part, because you are the only troll I see here
Seriously ... 95% of the kills i get are just awareness, tactical positioning, luck, finishing someone else kill, explosive kills, jumping in a turret at the right time... and so on. Only 5% of the kills i get are to do with the control method i using.
Mouse, DS3, Move controller.... are all just tools, and a tool it's only as effective as the person that is using it. |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
415
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 21:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
I agree to that point. I was a PC gamer up until about 4 years ago, and except for my first year or two of pc gaming, I used a controller for FPS because I was more comfortable with it. And I still did well. I'm not arguing that kb/m is better, but if you can't see that they both have advantages and disadvantages over each other (even in dust) your crazy. Strafing goes down in the win column for kb/m. Whereas other things you mentioned, jumping, ads, ect, come easier for sticks... |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
703
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 10:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote: Seriously ... 95% of the kills i get are just awareness, tactical positioning, luck, finishing someone else kill, explosive kills, jumping in a turret at the right time... and so on. Only 5% of the kills i get are to do with the control method i using.
Mouse, DS3, Move controller.... are all just tools, and a tool it's only as effective as the person that is using it.
and, yes, you're right here. I would lower the percentage at 80 %. The other 20 % are probably ideal 1 vs 1 where, well, your input method counts as much as lag and fitting.
P14GU3 wrote:Strafing goes down in the win column for kb/m. Whereas other things you mentioned, jumping, ads, ect, come easier for sticks... Actually, it is impossible to jump and track the target with a ds3. You jump and track much better with kb/m. The only "advantage" and not that much is that you can actually run with a grenade cooked. Only that. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
178
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 10:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:I was just in a game where a HEAVY was strafeing so fast back and forth that I was unable to land any bullets from my SMG despite haveing my DS3 settings at 100 and 100.
After the game I sent a mail asking WTF and the response was KB/M dancing FTW.
So I decided to go play Fallout New Vegas. On Friday I will play BF4 Open Beta.
Anywho November and Black Friday for a PS4.
Getting real tired of unbalanced gameplay.
Consider that Amarr Assault look much the same as Amarr Heavy, and YES, there is no ******* chance that Heavy could out strafe you. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2035
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 10:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:You know, I was just arguing with someone about the strafing abilities of Kb/M users. There are those who insist there is no difference between strafing with the Kb/M and strafing with the DS3. Go figure. Honestly there is no difference... OP probably just can't consistently aim at a moving target... Turn AA On?
Yeah, I mean its not like one has a dead zone and the other doesnt and even if it does that totally doesnt affect gameplay I mean whoever heard of fractions of a second being the deciding factor in some situations, definitely doesnt happen in a FPS and you must be joking if you think a few frames make all the difference in other genres like fighting games |
Beld Errmon
Evocatius
950
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:18:00 -
[50] - Quote
ah this tired old argument again, blah blah blah its a console game everyone should have to use a toddlers rattle like me blah blah, hopefully CCP grants your wish of not having to fight ppl with KBs and mouses, and take this game off the console and put it on the PC where it belongs. |
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J Falcs
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 12:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Banning Hammer wrote: Seriously ... 95% of the kills i get are just awareness, tactical positioning, luck, finishing someone else kill, explosive kills, jumping in a turret at the right time... and so on. Only 5% of the kills i get are to do with the control method i using.
Mouse, DS3, Move controller.... are all just tools, and a tool it's only as effective as the person that is using it.
and, yes, you're right here. I would lower the percentage at 80 %. The other 20 % are probably ideal 1 vs 1 where, well, your input method counts as much as lag and fitting. P14GU3 wrote:Strafing goes down in the win column for kb/m. Whereas other things you mentioned, jumping, ads, ect, come easier for sticks... Actually, it is impossible to jump and track the target with a ds3. You jump and track much better with kb/m. The only "advantage" and not that much is that you can actually run with a grenade cooked. Only that.
If you really want to get full buttons, use the left "nunchuk" of a PS3 "mouse" like the FragFX Shark (I think that's the name) and a mouse with at least 4 buttons on the side. You can now do everything at once if want.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is of course rather pricey and it's full of wires, dongles, etc. There is still something to be said about hitting the big PS button in the middle and just playing without having to worry if your mouse and kb are charged. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
1012
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 12:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
The primary thing i want to know here is if the kb/m strafing behaviour we see for example in heavy suits is intentional.
Afaik the suit were intended to have linear and rotational inertia, implying that instantaneous changes of direction should be impossible even with glitched input.
That would be the case if CCP was actually modelling suit physics. If they went the cheesy route and simulated the physics via cheap input mechanics then maybe we are seeing a glitch that can be fixed. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence. EoN.
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
ITT: Whiners whining about how their Auto Aim isn't winning the game for them against an agile target. |
Ynned Ivanova
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
111
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 16:23:00 -
[54] - Quote
As opposed to people who know whats been said is true. Yet try to hide/avoi.d/troll the thread to obscurity.
The thread has nothing to do with aiming, its only stating that strafing is easier/more effective with a kb. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence. EoN.
155
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 17:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
I just spent a few minutes testing strafe speeds, and direction change speed on DS3 and KB/M with Light, Medium and Heavy suits.
There is no perceptible difference to me.
What are you guys on about? |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1567
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 18:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:I just spent a few minutes testing strafe speeds, and direction change speed on DS3 and KB/M with Light, Medium and Heavy suits.
There is no perceptible difference to me.
What are you guys on about?
You know, the typical Scrub QQing .... ;
- Is not way i can be that bad, it have to be something else. |
Dariuz Krul
Ultramarine Corp
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 16:37:00 -
[57] - Quote
The issue with the kb\m is a valid complaint in regards to balance. Strafing is not the issue, dancing back and forth, so that due to the inevitable framerate lag that is the bigger issue, a heavy appears to teleport a meter back and forth, becomes ridiculous. A heavy outperforming a light suit in ANY regard beyond firepower and tank is a BALANCE issue.
Anyone who dismissed this issue immediately is obviously using the issue to their own advantage. And then to add the inevitable accusal of GÇ£scrubGÇ¥ doesn't make you GÇ£leetGÇ¥, it makes you a chump. There IS an issue. Thankfully, spray and pray with my OP militia assault rifle, you know, that weapon that is the most versatile and oft used mainstay weapon on the modern battlefield, takes you out 50% of the time. A good teammate usually covers the other 50%.
So the question becomes, are you REALLY for a good, balanced game? Or are you a chump who wants every dishonorable advantage you can elicit out of the game to stroke your undernourished ego, like kb\m, turbo controllers and lag..? Most of us already know the answer, we are reminded every match.. |
Incin3rate
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
2
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Posted - 2013.10.08 17:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Not sure what you're arguing here, but... What I am saying is Kb/M gives an obvious advantage over DS3 because they can change their movement direction faster than we can track them with the DS3. They can also hold near perfect aim with the Mouse while doing this. At the same time, because we change directions much slower, it makes DS3 users much easier to track especially with a Mouse. And I'm saying your full of ****... it doesn't work like that in the game. So go back to fantasy land.
And the child rears it ugly head. LMFAO.
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Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
135
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 18:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
Lets just add a feature where people who strafe dance from side to side topple over after a random amount of time and then lie there for a second or two, then stand up as if being revived. |
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