of dying to players I've outmaneuvered and out-aimed just because their proto asses can fit over 2x my HP. Don't get me wrong, I like the tier system in general, but having over 2x the HP = over 2x the TTK = they can f--k up significantly and still kill me with ease. It's no wonder the new player retention rate is so low.

Proto? Lol. Let them waste their isk.

Lose two suits theyll b negative for game.

Find good efficient counter fittings to proto or get better, squad up and use proto on ur own.

Disclaimer, I have proto nothing

Restrict public contracts to ADV gear max.

Leave FW and PC for PRO gear.

There is no "good efficient counter" to a 1k HP CalLogi. Is there?

"get better and use proto" takes many months of capped-out SP gain.

A squad of 6 competent players in STD gear is still going to get crushed by a squad of 2 or 3 protobears.

The argument from ISK is meaningless, many players have enough ISK to lose 1000s of proto suits and not care. Especially with PC being a magical ISK-pooping unicorn that no one has to spend money to defend any more.

Restrict public contracts to ADV gear max.

Leave FW and PC for PRO gear.

How about a militia variant of everything and militia only matches.

I don't know how someone who can aim with an assault rifle can "outmaneuver" someone and not kill them. If you hit them with most of your shots you'll do far more damage than even the beefiest suit can handle. I do this all the time with an exile AR of all things. I don't even use damage mods.

of dying to players I've outmaneuvered and out-aimed just because their proto asses can fit over 2x my HP. Don't get me wrong, I like the tier system in general, but having over 2x the HP = over 2x the TTK = they can f--k up significantly and still kill me with ease. It's no wonder the new player retention rate is so low.

If he isn't dying fast enough... evade (have a way out before engaging). Preferably your way out leads your opponent to other blues for the assist.

Example:
I'm rolling STD Min Assault, with 3x basic shield extenders, and basic repper. I come up against bricked Cal Logi from the side and start unloading with a basic AR. After 1 second of perfectly on-target fire (~425 DPS), the enemy still has significantly more HP than me. Any half decent player, by that point, will bunny hop, turn on me, and start AR-ing back with a Duvolle. With a few levels of proficiency, his AR damage oustrips mine, and combined with the fact that he STILL has more HP than me after a perfectly-aimed sneak attack, he has a very good chance of winning. I roll Amarr Logi on my main, and even at ADV level, I can do the above to many, if not most, MLT/STD players.

My point is, that shouldn't be necessary. I see two options for bringing dropsuit tanking in line with weapon scaling: either standardize slot counts across tiers, keep module scaling power gaps how they are, and make it PG/CPU limited, or keep the increasing slot counts, but bring HP-per-module scaling in line with weapon scaling. Proto gear should certainly give you an advantage, I just don't think that the relative level of tank achievable by current protosuits is reasonable.

Heh, you used to get more base HP the higher the suit tier you used. Proto is supposed to give you advantage because you earn it through investing time and SP. But even if they have better tech, it doesn't replace skill. It's just more of an uphill battle from your end. Punishing veteran players isn't the best way to balance things. Ask any pilot.

You just proved my statement. Up to a point. Nobody is invincible, just a little harder to kill than others. The difference in EHP is literally a few extra militia AR rounds when you break it down. You're probably never going to take a proto suit head on in a standard/militia fit with ease, but you're not supposed to. That dynamic of being able to build and improve your character is an essential core mechanic to the game's meta. It gives you a reason to grind out that SP- to get better. This is what separates Dust from a bubblegum FPS.

It's NOT just a few extra militia AR rounds, FFS, it's a full second of AR dps (425, 12 shots) or more! The difference is not minor, it's more than double. That's not "a little harder to kill", thats "I'm guaranteed to lose a 1v1 unless the enemy has a seizure." I agree it should be harder to kill protosuits than others, but right now a dual-tanked proto suit with an AR is serious win button.

It's NOT just a few extra militia AR rounds, FFS, it's a full second of AR dps (425, 12 shots) or more! The difference is not minor, it's more than double. That's not "a little harder to kill", thats "I'm guaranteed to lose a 1v1 unless the enemy has a seizure." I agree it should be harder to kill protosuits than others, but right now a dual-tanked proto suit with an AR is serious win button.

It sounds like your a scout?

Sorry to tell you, but scouts aren't meamt for taking on squads, if you are taking on just 1 guy, what are using?

Why are you trying to 1v1 someone in a team based game anyway? This is why we have squads and teams so you don't have to duel someone with better tech than you. Change your strategy. The definition of insanity is trying to do the same thing, expecting different results.

It sounds like you did not read the thread. I'm not a scout and I'm not trying to drop a full squad. 6 coordinated players SHOULD win.
For the purposes of analysis, I'm talking about a STD AR medium frame going up against a PRO AR medium frame.



My analysis is just as valid as you scale it up to squad or team level. An equally skilled squad of STD players has no chance of winning over a squad of PRO-geared players, and the same holds for a team. A team with 8 random protos vs a team with no random protos has significantly less total team HP and DPS. Maybe if matchmaking worked it would be OK, but it doesn't so it's not.
I do use different strategies- everything from range advantage with LRs to burst damage advantage with SCRs to cheap cooked grenade kills to MD ninja-ing. I can do fine, and it won't stop me playing the game. I've long since given up on winning the situation I'm talking about, I just think it's indicative of game balance issues that are hurting the NPE. I simply don't think it should be outright impossible to go to head to head with the same weapon.

It is a pretty simple fix but no one wants to hear it. In my experience with shooters, the only way to make the balance of additional damage of proto weapons is to make them harder to shoot by adding more kick to more powerful weapons and to decrease the clip sizes on more powerful weapons.

Restrict public contracts to ADV gear max.

Leave FW and PC for PRO gear.

Well, if you have totally out manuevered him, try leading with a grenade, then opening up on him just as the nade goes off.

Its already highly condensed!
Have you done calcs on the ACTUAL difference?

There is no "good efficient counter" to a 1k HP CalLogi. Is there?

"get better and use proto" takes many months of capped-out SP gain.

A squad of 6 competent players in STD gear is still going to get crushed by a squad of 2 or 3 protobears.

The argument from ISK is meaningless, many players have enough ISK to lose 1000s of proto suits and not care. Especially with PC being a magical ISK-pooping unicorn that no one has to spend money to defend any more.

You mean like it was before? The Duvolle used to kick like a donkey on speed back in chromosome.

I miss that. Each shot would buck up a bit, and you could trace a nice line up the torso and finish with a headshot.

This also reiterates the point I've made a few times in other threads. The problem now isn't that some weapons aren't powerful enough. The most common weapons are far, far too powerful. This used to be a game where your hitpoints and strategy mattered. Now 300 hp gets you an extra .7 seconds of life. That's barely enough time to register where the fire is coming from, let alone get back into cover. So why train shield extension or armor plating? Why blow an extra 30k to 60k isk tanking up a suit? Grab a cheapass suit and throw a GEK on it. You're done. If you don't get unlucky with random aim assisted headshots from militia rifles this gives you everything you need to come out on top.

Ok so in the examples you just gave with actual math, those are relevant if both guys both shooting at each other at the same time like an old western duel. You claim you're getting the drop on people and they're still killing you. Who are you shooting at? Neo? There's only a .2 second difference max between STD and PRO...does the guy do a backflp and aim at you in less than .1 of a second?

Sounds to me like either you're not actually getting the drop on these guys, or you're getting too excited and missing your shots.