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N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1458
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off, scouts are Sneaky CQC only fighters, (except for snipers) lets give an extra 5% damage bonus to shotguns and Side Arms (including nova knives) within 20 meters, and a bonus to sniper damage by about 5% at any range.
That and there current scout bonus as well.
In my own opinion i want the scout suits to be very effective in CQC. I want them to be able to play that hit and run strategy very effectively.
That extra damage boost would be very good for that strategy.
Lets give them 20% more PG and CPU all around.
2 equipment slots.
1 extra slot per suit, most likely an extra low on minnie and an extra high on Gallante
Time for some special scout abilities.
Scouts can be the only suit in the game that shares passive radar with his/her squadmates.
No fall damage at all.
No auto aim when shooting scouts. But only if there profile dampening is at a certain level. I don't know what a good level for that would be.
scouts get a 30% wp bonus if someone they have passively scanned or actively scanned gets killed by a squadmate.
if scouts kill an enemy that never got a sight on them then they get a 20% wp bonus with that kill.
Scouts do 10% more damage by shooting someone in the back.
Some of these seem slightly OP, but when your the weakest suit in the game, you need to put damage out quickly |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1810
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're right - it's too OP. As a sneaky scout about 35-40% of the time, I think you are asking too much. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
380
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
No, just make them faster and stealthier. Speed and stealth kills. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1458
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:You're right - it's too OP. As a sneaky scout about 35-40% of the time, I think you are asking too much. i'll edit the numbers a little to see if it makes it a bit better for you |
Ausnuts
DUST University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
I been playing scout with a shotty and knives and out of all these the only ones I like are the 10% behind the back one lol and the cpu and pg boost even if slightly. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1459
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ausnuts wrote:I been playing scout with a shotty and knives and out of all these the only ones I like are the 10% behind the back one lol and the cpu and pg boost even if slightly. theres lots to like, not just that one. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1459
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:No, just make them faster and stealthier. Speed and stealth kills. they can't be much faster without putting in more hit detection problems and chugging the console a little to much.
There already very sneaky, and reducing the profile of your suit is almost pointless unless you can get below the i believe 15 DB scanner? I might be wrong but i know there is a scanner impossible to be undetected by |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1534
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 22:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
I get the feeling that as scouts we have gotten to the point of neglect that we now ask for much more than we really need. I guess it's in hope that CCP will at least implement some of our desires rather than realistically expecting all of them. |
Nonya Bizznizz
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 23:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
I kinda disagree with this. Only thing I would change with ALL scout suits is a like 5% buff to shields,which comes for a 5% Nerf in armor, which ALSO comes with a 5% speed boost. Also, I agree with the scouts sharing scan vision, and I think every suit should get Scanning Assist WP if a scanned enemy gets killed while lit up. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1287
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 23:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1 OP ... thanks for the love. Some really good ideas, by the way.
As for "Shared Vision" for Scouts ... I'm strongly opposed.
If I want to share what I see, I'll describe it on coms or pop it with my Scanner. The last thing I want is more EZ mode ARs shooting over my shoulder as I try to sneak up behind a target. |
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Kane Fyea
DUST University Ivy League
1688
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lately I've been using my dragonfly scout suit with a shotgun and an advanced quantum active scanner. I do pretty good actually. Well I mostly use the scanner to sneak around enemies and shoot them from behind but it is still fun. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1461
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:+1 OP ... thanks for the love. Some really good ideas, by the way. I'd be thrilled if CCP implemented any of them; though all of them would likely be a 'bit too much.
As for "Shared Vision" for Scouts ... I'm very strongly opposed. If I want to share what I see, I'll describe it on coms or pop it with my Scanner. The last thing I need is EZ Mode shooting their ARs over my shoulder as I try to sneak up behind a target.
"Shared Vision" for Scouts is a buff to non-Scouts. Which is why the non-Scouts get behind it. -1, EZ Mode. A big -1. What about having that be an option then? Do you want your scout to share info with the team or not. This could cater to whatever playstyle |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1287
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote: What about having that be an option then? Do you want your scout to share info with the team or not. This could cater to whatever playstyle
As is, the majority of CQC Scouts run Scanners. Scan-Assisted WPs means even more Scouts will run a Scanner. Two equipment slots (and enough CPU/PG to use them) would mean nearly all Scouts would run a Scanners.
Shared Vision would be redundant, if included alongside a second equipment slot. "Optional" shared vision would equate to a Scout's decision to Scan. |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1461
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote: What about having that be an option then? Do you want your scout to share info with the team or not. This could cater to whatever playstyle
As is, the majority of CQC Scouts run Scanners. Scan-Assisted WPs means even more Scouts will run a Scanner. Two equipment slots (and enough CPU/PG to use something) would mean nearly all Scouts would run a Scanners. Shared Vision would be redundant, if included alongside a second equipment slot. Your scanner isn't always out, i'm just saying, don't you'd think it would be nice to have the option. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1287
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote: Your scanner isn't always out, i'm just saying, don't you'd think it would be nice to have the option.
It'd be a "nice option" but if we had to choose a buff ... Because we'll likely only gonna get one between now and Christmas ... Most of us would choose something else every time. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
900
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nope.
summary of what I think they need:
More speed
better scanners
another eq. slot
octopus cloak.
an explanation of all of that can be found here |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1998
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ridiculous suggestions, increased stamina so they actually could run for days since they are supposed to travel light anyway and reworking the hack timers based on suits so scouts get second fastest hacks behind logis would be drastic improvements
Question though, why do you guys always keep asking for more equipment slots if a scout is supposed to be a light quick moving thing |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1287
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Ridiculous suggestions, increased stamina so they actually could run for days since they are supposed to travel light anyway and reworking the hack timers based on suits so scouts get second fastest hacks behind logis would be drastic improvements
Question though, why do you guys always keep asking for more equipment slots if a scout is supposed to be a light quick moving thing
To answer your question directly, speed doesn't matter versus today's omnipotent, aim-assisted AR.
The last time Scouts were balanced was in Chromosome, when speed did in fact matter. Some would say Scouts were OP, citing their ability speed tank and evade fire in close quarters. To these claimants I'd ask, if the Scout were OP why was his KDR so comparatively low to other frames?
For whatever reason -- likely a result of AR-514's QQ -- Scouts were nerfed across a variety of metrics in Uprising:
Decreased Stamina Decreased Speed Decreased Slot Configs Decreased Equipment Slots Decreased eHP Decreased PG/CPU Decreased Base Scan Radius Decreased Evasive Capability Decreased OHK Potential
As you can see, we've lost alot of ground. A return to Chromosome standards would be ideal, but we'd settle for less. We aren't seeking EZ. We are seeking balance. We've been patient.
- Shotty GoBang |
Jarlaxle Xorlarrin
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
165
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would use scouts more if the shotgun skills actually felt like they did something. |
621311251521 3316
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:First off, scouts are Sneaky CQC only fighters, (except for snipers) lets give an extra 5% damage bonus to shotguns and Side Arms (including nova knives) within 20 meters, and a bonus to sniper damage by about 5% at any range.
That and there current scout bonus as well.
In my own opinion i want the scout suits to be very effective in CQC. I want them to be able to play that hit and run strategy very effectively.
That extra damage boost would be very good for that strategy.
Lets give them 20% more PG and CPU all around.
2 equipment slots.
1 extra slot per suit, most likely an extra low on minnie and an extra high on Gallante
Time for some special scout abilities.
Scouts can be the only suit in the game that shares passive radar with his/her squadmates.
No fall damage at all. nope
No auto aim when shooting scouts. But only if there profile dampening is at a certain level. I don't know what a good level for that would be.
scouts get a 15 wp bonus if someone they have passively scanned or actively scanned gets killed by a squadmate.
if scouts kill an enemy that never got a sight on them then they get a 20% wp bonus with that kill.
Scouts do 10% more damage by shooting someone in the back.
Some of these seem slightly OP, but when your the weakest suit in the game, you need to put damage out quickly
nope |
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1998
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Ridiculous suggestions, increased stamina so they actually could run for days since they are supposed to travel light anyway and reworking the hack timers based on suits so scouts get second fastest hacks behind logis would be drastic improvements
Question though, why do you guys always keep asking for more equipment slots if a scout is supposed to be a light quick moving thing To answer your question directly, speed doesn't matter versus today's omnipotent, aim-assisted AR. The last time Scouts were balanced was in Chromosome, when speed did in fact matter. Some would say Scouts were OP, citing their ability speed tank and evade fire in close quarters. To these claimants I'd ask, if the Scout were OP why was his KDR so comparatively low to other frames? For whatever reason -- likely a result of AR-514's QQ -- Scouts were nerfed across a variety of metrics in Uprising: Decreased Stamina Decreased Speed Decreased Slot Configs Decreased Equipment Slots Decreased eHP Decreased PG/CPU Decreased Base Scan Radius Decreased Evasive Capability Decreased OHK Potential As you can see, we've lost alot of ground. A return to Chromosome standards would be ideal, but we'd settle for less. Many of us are concerned that "hiding better" is all CCP has in store for us. So we ask for things that'd actually help, like getting back a second equipment slot. - Shotty GoBang
Hmm I see What do you say though that generally speaking a scout is supposed to be the hidey sneaky class and if you wanted to be kicking down doors its not the right frame to use and complaining you cant be invincible while running since hit detection is now much better and complaining you cant one hit kill everyone makes you sound a bit ridiculous |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
307
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 03:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buffing specific weapons is a bad idea. It means scouts would be penalized for not using certain weapons.
No fall damage at all sounds nice but is unrealistic. The game has already established that falling can cause lethal damage. If scouts took no fall damage, then it would contradict the game's implied laws of physics. (reduced fall damage would be nice though)
The auto aim aversion I feel is disagreeable but can't put a fully fleshed out reason why I don't like it.
The passive scanner wp sounds like a good idea, but I feel 15 is too much. Maybe 3?
The last two would be incredibly difficult to determine.
After reading all the scout discussions I've come across, this is what I feel scouts need the most:
Krom Ganesh wrote:* Decrease our scan profile from 45 to 40 db * Add an extra equipment slot * Increase scan range from 10m to 20m * Decrease our scan precision to 40 db * Increase base speed * Give us a bit more CPU/PG * Allow scouts to share enemy locations
* Change ADV Gal Scout from 2H/2L to 1H/3L
* Begin adding actual E-War equipment & Stealth
The top group would make scouts do very well at their intended roles without limiting the other classes. The gal scout change is something that would allow the gal scout to play more like a gal scout. And the last point is what CCP needs to do in the future to expand on the scout role.
A reduction to fall damage would be nice but is not essential. As for the stamina nerf... I hardly notice anything is different. I guess I've gotten used to it but I don't feel stamina regen delay is much of a hindrance. An increase in max stamina wouldn't hurt, but I feel an increase in base speed would essentially cover this. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
124
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 03:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm actually a fan of all suits sharing passive scans. Not the visual scans just the 10m radius ones.
That way anyone that fits the modules and trains the skills can be useful to their squad. With Gal scouts having their innate advantage.
Either that or a module that shares your passive scans with the squad. |
Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
243
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 04:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Just add 10% more speed and maybe another equipment slot and I would be fine. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:No, just make them faster and stealthier. Speed and stealth kills. they can't be much faster without putting in more hit detection problems and chugging the console a little to much. There already very sneaky, and reducing the profile of your suit is almost pointless unless you can get below the i believe 15 DB scanner? I might be wrong but i know there is a scanner impossible to be undetected by
On the speed part you are right CCP has already stated that scouts are close to the maximun speed they can realize.
But you are wrong regarding stealthyness even a lvl 5 scout can be detected by an advanced scanner if he doesn't use at least one dampener or put some additional SP in profile dampening.
So a proto scout gets beaten by an advanced scanner thats 2.8 Mil SP invested in a stealthy suit that gets beaten by a 200K piece of equipment .
That doesn't seem very stealthy.
Regarding the OP I agree with: - more CPU/PG - 1 More Slot - WP for passive scanning and Squadvision for scouts
I disagree with: - equipmentslot (is not really needed) - more speed (maybe a reduction on all other suits would work) - two damage bonusses
Instead of a general damagebonus I would rather see some sort of backstabbing bonus (damage dealt from behind should ioncreases by x%)
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
125
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
It should still take effort to beat prototype scanner. Just not much for a proto scout. Maybe one basic or enhanced profile damp to beat the normal proto scanner and a complex or two to beat the precision one. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1292
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 13:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:
Hmm I see 1) What do you say though that generally speaking a scout is supposed to be the hidey sneaky class 2) and if you wanted to be kicking down doors its not the right frame to use and 3) complaining you cant be invincible while running since 4) hit detection is now much better and 5) complaining you cant one hit kill everyone makes you sound a bit ridiculous
1) Absolutely correct. We hide, sneak, flank, assassinate, escape. 2) Also correct. Any Scout will tell you that running head-long into combat is a bad idea. 3) Invincibility!? No one has asked for this ... except for maybe Tankers :P 4) Hit detection is still quite broken. SG's and Knives miss at 0-5 meters while AR's hit at 90 meters. 5) How many point-blank shotgun blasts to the back or face do you feel you should be able to survive?
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Chilled Pill
Pro Hic Immortalis
205
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:First off, blah blah blah blah
What is this Heavy doing yammering on about what a Scout should be. The Heavy threads be thattaway! Now git!
Kidding N1ck! But seriously...Kidding. Or am I? |
voidfaction
Void of Faction
85
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:I'm actually a fan of all suits sharing passive scans. Not the visual scans just the 10m radius ones.
That way anyone that fits the modules and trains the skills can be useful to their squad. With Gal scouts having their innate advantage.
Either that or a module that shares your passive scans with the squad.
Let me let you in on a little secret. Gal scout has no innate advantage in scanning. they have range but lack precision. without precision range means nothing. a squad is better off with a active scanner on a shield/armor tanked logi because a passive scan scout has 249 eHP (not going to live long enough to be usefull in a squad) and only can get maxed out to 32.4 precision
So you are all for adding another role that a logi can do better than everyone. look up what kind of precision a logi can get to. You now just added a logi passive scanner to the rest of your assault logi squad and you no longer need an active scanner. not to mention while acting as the best scanner in the game and can be the medic, armor repair and drop nanohives for everyone all while using the super range aim assisted AR all in one fitting.
Let me guess you play a logi and your trying to make sure you remain the best of every class in the game. thinking that would be a scout buff. LOL. it would only be a logi buff and screw over scouts more than they already are.
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1296
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Chilled Pill wrote:What is this Heavy doing yammering on about what a Scout should be. The Heavy threads be thattaway! Now git! Kidding N1ck! But seriously...Kidding. Or am I?
Past few times I've seen N1ck, he's been in a Scout suit. |
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