*sigh*
its called hit and run, not hit and hide, 30 sec cooldown max, as it's already too much, 2 shot forge gun, you serious? make it more op whydontcha, no noob solo'ing tanks please.
modules have delay before activation so it'd be impossible to survive in a shield tank+armor would be more OP.
max 5800 hp shields, maybe slightly less, but max hp buff is NEEDED to counter forge guns/flux nades, 45 sec for modules is too long for hit and run, maybe 20-25 sec. hardeners get buff to max 35% dr proto and 20 sec long duration.

Now 1st off i must say we are doing this wrong.
The community, me included, is fighting almost daily ,Tankers vs AV and now our posts are unproductive.
Now OBVIOUSLY everyone has a different point of VIEW. ...

This post is NOT TO DISCUSS anything, but to share what WE THINK would help balance the game towards an enjoyable experience.Tankers and AVers are both invited now PLEASE take into consideration CCP might read this so keep it balanced and as less biased as possible.
Now before you start with your; you are not a tanker crap i'll say.Im an AVer.But i have 2 tanker accounts now one over 8 mill armor tank and a new one 3 mil shield tanker (God those things are awful)

Im going to start:

-Armor tank HP buff (AT LEAST +50% more HP) + Slight speed reduction (So that when equipped with Torque increasing modules or/and Nitro they will be fast but not as fast as shield tanks)
-Shield HP buff (At least +40% more HP,they would still have la lot less HP than Armored tanks) + Regenerator buff
-Shield tanks are supposed to,same as shield dropsuits, to be hit and run abusers.They need at least a 100%-200% increase in shield regen per second (Say from 22 to 44 or 66 per second).This would make the hit and run strategy viable.
-AV STAYS THE SAME
-Both type of tanks have increased damage reduction vs non AV weapory.
-Prox mines Have a big buff, making them the ULTIMATE AV weapon,but the most annoying to use
This helps the balance since tanks would be a lot harder to kill with at least 8000-14000 HP (armor tanks) and AV in general will only be able to push them back, BUT if they eat some prox mines they would be highly damaged.This is balance: TAnks die less to AV in general, tanks die easily to Prox Mines, making ZONING and positioning the new AV vs Tank WAR.
-AVers Get WP for Conecting hits to tanks, say 30WP per hit (in case o plasma cannons and FGs),10 WP per grenade and 5 per swarm. THIS WAY Av specialists have an incentive to keep Tanks at bay.This WP were assigned to have some relation between them but it might be a smaller amount per hit/ Just used as examples.
-Dropships need a Buff in general.HP,SPeed and WP gain
-LAVs are good as they are.People who heavily invested in LAVs still have powerful vehicles, yet BPO and MLT are crap. I wouldnt touch it.LAV are balanced.
- This bro here posted this i think its worth a mention.It regards showing AV infantry on the vehicles map while they are using Lock on with their swarms: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=111974&find=unread
-Also swarms SHOULD stay with their Lock-on capability,but missiles should be able to be destroyed.....


Again this is MY opinion and the idea of this thread is NOT to discuss them,but to provide YOUR opinion on what should be done. THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION POST, just post your ideas on what needs to be balanced and PLEASE, TROLLS are not welcome , TY.

Or you can wait to see what changes they are doing for vehicles, THEN create posts.

/thread

caldari suits are fastest.
less HEAVY armor means more speed and is balanced, currently armor is faster than shield.

I hate to bring lore into the equation, but ultimately, this is what will become of tanks (i think)

CALDARI = best glass cannons because they have fast enough shield recharge to get hit once, when OHKing something from 500m away, then drop back, charge up in 20 seconds, and shoot again. No other tank can use the railgun the same way a caldari tank can.

MINMITAR = Basically the Gunlogi in Chrome. Super fast, lightly defended, and with the ability to stack a good damage mod, while still being able to 'speed tank'; this enables it to run in, kill everything it can in 10 seconds, and run away. It is either the weakest tank, or the tankiest LAV; much like the winmitar assault suit.

GALLENTE = Fast armor tankers. Make the best tankers for shock tactics. Able to become nearly invincible for a minute and fight on the front, then run away with exceptional speed and rep back up in the rear.

AMARR = Slow omni-tanks. The highest HP of all tanks. Not fast enough to close distance, hit, and run away, but fighting at a medium to long distance, and providing direct fire support; while being able to fend off even gallente tanks, slug it out with caldari in long range engagements, and tank most of the winmitar's damage. However, the loss of speed and poor shield recharge, combined with e necessity to use armor plates, disables this tank from being a good glass cannon, or a powerful offensive tank for more than one engagement.

caldari suits are fastest.
less HEAVY armor means more speed and is balanced, currently armor is faster than shield.

Just my 2 cents as an AV man.

Vehicle armor plates plates should have a penalty to speed just like drop suits. As for buffing tanks HP there is some very good ideas posted and even I agree Tanks need more HP (honestly it should take atleast 3 AV guys that focus fire on a tank to take em down).

Swarms need a buff to missle speed, but they should also be able to be shot down by gun fire. Swarms are next to useless against dropships or LAVs because of their speed and maneuverability. A well fitted dropship only dies to a forge gun.

Forge guns need a debuff to splash damage, this solves a lot of infantry deaths to forge gunners just splash killing guys. Now if that gunners hits an infantry dead on... well, he earned that kill.

Prox mines, STD 800, ADV 900, Proto 1000 per mine. This allows mines to be used effectively in blocking off areas from vehicles or cripple tanks in ambush that was setup for it. (ITS A FREAKING MINE! mines do lots of damage to vehicles... its their purpose. I've seen HMVEES, tanks and APCs crippled or destroyed because of mines)

AV grenades need a buff in the sense that packed grenades need to do more damage, hence "PACKED". Also they need to explode on contact with the freaking LAV and not bounce off because the LAV is at full speed.

Plasma cannon needs either less drop or faster flight (I say both) not to mention that if its 1 shot per clip.... the damge needs to be increased A LOT more then what it's at now. Heck its plasma, if you hit the turret it should cause the tankers main gun to over heat. It may not kill the tank but it denies the tank that area plus that should increase plasma cannon use as AV instead of anti infantry in enclosed spaces.

again my 2 cents as an AV guy

I hate to bring lore into the equation, but ultimately, this is what will become of tanks (i think)

CALDARI = best glass cannons because they have fast enough shield recharge to get hit once, when OHKing something from 500m away, then drop back, charge up in 20 seconds, and shoot again. No other tank can use the railgun the same way a caldari tank can.

MINMITAR = Basically the Gunlogi in Chrome. Super fast, lightly defended, and with the ability to stack a good damage mod, while still being able to 'speed tank'; this enables it to run in, kill everything it can in 10 seconds, and run away. It is either the weakest tank, or the tankiest LAV; much like the winmitar assault suit.

GALLENTE = Fast armor tankers. Make the best tankers for shock tactics. Able to become nearly invincible for a minute and fight on the front, then run away with exceptional speed and rep back up in the rear.

AMARR = Slow omni-tanks. The highest HP of all tanks. Not fast enough to close distance, hit, and run away, but fighting at a medium to long distance, and providing direct fire support; while being able to fend off even gallente tanks, slug it out with caldari in long range engagements, and tank most of the winmitar's damage. However, the loss of speed and poor shield recharge, combined with e necessity to use armor plates, disables this tank from being a good glass cannon, or a powerful offensive tank for more than one engagement.

Everyone is focusing on whether vehicles need more HP or less, or how much damage and range AV should have. These are all stopgaps.

What we need are completely new features. We need capacitor. We need electronic warfare. Without those vehicle balance is never going to work.

I don't think you really appreciate the degree to which those two factors are going to change the vehicle/av landscape. Depending on implementation it could mean HAVs tha can perma-run their reps and hardeners. It could mean stasis webifiers so vehicles can't flee when they're getting low. Saying "let's get the basics done before we do those" is like saying "it's about to snow, I should shovel the driveway" because at that point everything we know about vehicle balance will be irrelevant.

Everyone is focusing on whether vehicles need more HP or less, or how much damage and range AV should have. These are all stopgaps.

What we need are completely new features. We need capacitor. We need electronic warfare. Without those vehicle balance is never going to work.

It should be easier to disable a tank than outright destroy one.

I cant really comment on amour tanks as i've only +3 in skills for them and never use them, so for shields... and maybe both

a pg increase so i can play with my fits a little more, it seems even after going the full hog on a useless skill tree (gunlogi skill tree is full of cpu reducers that seem worthless) im still stuck with the same boring fits

possibly, a little hp buff, 500-1500

again, i dont like the skill tree, madrugers got a + to reps and a - to pg used, where all we got is useless cpu, i never run out of cpu, so am left thinking wtf is up with our skill tree...

speed, i dont know the lore and whats meant to be faster, but g'logi is slow as hell, and to fit a booster, i need to sacrifice a passive hardener, same for the scanner and heatsink, this goes back to wack fitting options for a gunlogi

shield hardener only lasts for 10 seconds (if my mind is correct), which is kinda useless ( the hardener not my mind)

I think like dropsuits, the skill tree should buff tanks the more you put in, and while they do to a extent, i dont think they do enough

and active modules , which is where i think the balance should be, should be a bit beefier from what they are now

all in all, actives need buffing and something needs be done when it comes to maddy vs g'logi to even them out a little



"post written while drunk **** my spellings"

Vehicle capacitors! This will reward skilled players by giving them more flexibility than long cool downs, but has the same result that vehicles will have times when their cap is low and they're vulnerable, and other times when they have full cap and are ready to be very nasty.

Vehicle prices are probably fine where they are. For tanks, look at the ISK cost of all suits and vehicles killed by tanks, vs the cost of all tanks destroyed. This will give you the ISK-efficiency of tanks and is a reasonable starting place for balancing price if you guys decide to make changes here.

If tanks are too squishy, (I"m not convinced they are) focus buffs on the support, and not the tanks themselves. I.e. focus on making remote repping from LLAV's and dropships with a decent range, and gameplay mechanics that make it practical for them to regularly run together as a team. If swarms are a problem, don't nerf swarms, make a turret that can only be mounted on LAV's that will counter swarms (either defender rockets, or maybe a very wide e-war beam that does 0 damage but signals all warheads to detonate prematurely).

The focus should be away from the solo tanker in an invulnerable box of destruction, but more of a tool that is incredibly powerful when properly supported by the rest of the squad, but weak when alone.

Also CCP, you should do my Quick/Dirty Test Range Implementation Idea. This would help pilots/tankers test fits and strategies against various opponents, so they don't have to do it under fire with lots of real ISK on the line.

Edit: Forgot to add that they do need to fix rendering issues for vehicles. It's not fair for vehicles to get blown up by invisible swarms and forge gunners.

Yea, this. This is basically how the racial HAV's should work. Although, you were (hopefully) exaggerating on that range for the Caldari HAV's......

If I see EWAR coming after me, I'm gone.

1: Like I told the gentleman on the last page, according to what Wolfman has told us so far, caps won't really work for vehicles anymore, so I'd rather not. EWAR that would work like vampires or neuts would just lower active times or raise cooldowns, but full caps, no.

2: Countermeasures are needed for swarms, and to be able to shoot down swarms by any means are needed as well, but making a single weapon the only thing to shoot them down, but suck ass in all other areas is a very bad idea.

3: Swarms have gone from being DS oriented to becoming a insane HAV killer. They need a complete overhaul.

4: It's already about getting support from others. If I see AV, I'll call it out then run, while they do the dirty work (they=my squad). I do covering fire for them to move to another spot, etc. It's already about teamwork and support. Don't make it completely reliant on support to do anything.


EDIT: Before I forget, hopefully, SOONtm, we'll get the weapons lab to test our **** before we take it out on the field.