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Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 699	Posted - 2013.09.24 23:26:00 - [1] - Quote Ok here we go, I think Im gonna **** off a lot of tankers here but oh well. First off a few important points or assumptions I am making. Ammo Cache will take low slot Damage Amplfiers in high slots, ALL armour active modules are low slots ALL Sheild active modules are high slots All weapon based improvements (except damage amplifiers) are low slots engine modules are low slots Ewar modules are high slots countermeasures are high slots WP awarded for vehicle damage * Passive and active health is extreme of each case assuming full health modules of that type. Armour Tanks Passive Health: Collasal (25 -30 k) Equivalent Active Health: Low (3-4k) Main Turret Power: Medium Speed: Snail Ammo reserves: Moderate Railgun: 40 Blaster: 300 ** Missile 30 salvos The armour tank is all about passive aggresive module use. An armour tank can reach as much as 20K and still maintain a decent rep speed. Active modules provide better bonuses than passive but only for a 2-3mins at a time and still require a decent passive health to be of use! The fact that ammo cache modules are in low slots mean an armour tank must sacrifice a lot of health for a few extra salvos. The low speed of a tank means that it is incredibly reliant on infantry to suppress av attempts if the tank needs to escape. But scanners allows an armour tank to easily point out enemy infantry, in addition to the active countermeasures. The use of the damage amplifiers allows an armour tank to become an impressive artillery platform for a short period, but the lack of heat cooling modules means an armour tank can't keep up a dedicated stream of rounds.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 699	Posted - 2013.09.24 23:27:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 705	Posted - 2013.09.25 00:16:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: True Adamance wrote: I wouldn't mind, having slightly better active module that would be fantastic, nor to mention a slightly better turning speed. but yeah some slight EHP buff, an AMARR HAV release and pilot suit and I'm a happy man. well atm shield tanks gdt destroyed by one guy running forge gun on a tower, make it so i you're on a tower for 5 seconds you get pushed off. That's not good at all. What they need to do is make all towers infantry accessible, so that you don't have to suicide a dropship up there to take them down, but at the same time give them less of a reason to be up there, verticality is cool yes, but why have access to a building top without solid rails, or fall guards. Put those up there, the occasional place for a FGer to shoot from, but make it so that infantry can climb up there to take them down, and that the firing points and few and far betweem. I feel obliged to point out, towers are being nerfed, you can't stand on 1 and fire over the edgs. Thats the plan for the old maps till they are fazed out.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 706	Posted - 2013.09.25 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Ok here we go, I think Im gonna **** off a lot of tankers here but oh well. First off a few important points or assumptions I am making. Ammo Cache will take low slot Damage Amplfiers in high slots, ALL armour active modules are low slots ALL Sheild active modules are high slots All weapon based improvements (except damage amplifiers) are low slots engine modules are low slots Ewar modules are high slots countermeasures are high slots WP awarded for vehicle damage * Passive and active health is extreme of each case assuming full health modules of that type. Armour Tanks Passive Health: Collasal (25 -30 k) Equivalent Active Health: Low (3-4k) Main Turret Power: Medium Speed: Snail Ammo reserves: Moderate Railgun: 40 Blaster: 300 ** Missile 30 salvos The armour tank is all about passive aggresive module use. An armour tank can reach as much as 20K and still maintain a decent rep speed. Active modules provide better bonuses than passive but only for a 2-3mins at a time and still require a decent passive health to be of use! The fact that ammo cache modules are in low slots mean an armour tank must sacrifice a lot of health for a few extra salvos. The low speed of a tank means that it is incredibly reliant on infantry to suppress av attempts if the tank needs to escape. But scanners allows an armour tank to easily point out enemy infantry, in addition to the active countermeasures. The use of the damage amplifiers allows an armour tank to become an impressive artillery platform for a short period, but the lack of heat cooling modules means an armour tank can't keep up a dedicated stream of rounds. Why are weapon modules low slots, that diverges from this games normal archetype, Armour needs to be slow moving brawlers, shields fast moving light skirmishers. Damage modifiers are still in the high slot, like on the suits. What is in the low slots are things that reduce heat build up, increase turning speed etc. So an armour tank will still be a heavy hitting brawler. But a sheild tank becomes capable of a sustained flurry so long as his actives don't give out. It just seemed unfairbto allow say a rail armour tank the ability to keep up a constant barrage of heavy hitting shots. After all a good brawler knkws when to back off and defend, and when to throw the powerful haymaker!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 714	Posted - 2013.09.25 07:05:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Sheild tanks Passive Health: Pitiful (500- 1.5K) Equivalent Active Health: Collasal (20-30 K) Main turret power: Low Speed: Hypersonic Ammo reserves: Moderate Rail: 40 Blaster: 300 **Missile: 30 salvos The sheild tank is all about hit and run, it can sponge enough damage via active modules to leave that pitiful base hp untouched. 2 Shots with a forge will be enough to fell a sheild tanker without his active modules. This makes sheild tanks perfect for a punching a hole in enemy defences. The large active health means a sheild tanker doesn't need to be concerned about av while his modules are on. But when he is vunerable his lack of scanning means he is entirely dependent on infantry support. Passive modules help a little but only serve purpose to empower the active modules. Active modus allow a sheild tan shield tanks would be destroyed in 1 shot by that low hp. the point of a Caldari HAV is alot of shields, high speed but low armor, 4k passives or 3.6 would be right. Fixed. Winmatar do shields as well, but they are the hit and run type. As in move in, hit hard with all of your ammo, GTFO. Well you see I was attempting to try and keep away from dropsuit based assumptions. The dropsuit architects are 1 thing but I don't think vehicles should necessarily follow the exact same archetypes. The passive health for sheilds is a bit low, yeah. The numbers are more just to give an idea of the magnitude. Some people might take "Passive Health:Collasal" as invincible. 3-4K makes more sense and Ill adjust the op accordingly. If we want it to be the caldari hav, then my current proposition still works. The active modules become a fail safe, a get out jail free card. Meanwhile he continues to rain and almost persistent death upon the field. If you don't take numbers to literally, you can run a sheild tank in a number of roles, I won't give it to you on a platter. I give the base and you see if you can make it work!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 727	Posted - 2013.09.25 15:10:00 - [6] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Sheild tanks Passive Health: Pitiful (1K- 3K) Equivalent Active Health: Collasal (20-30 K) Main turret power: Low Speed: Hypersonic Ammo reserves: Moderate Rail: 40 Blaster: 300 *Missile: 30 salvos The sheild tank is all about hit and run, it can sponge enough damage via active modules to leave that pitiful base hp untouched. 2 The large acti modules last 45secs tops but require 2-3min sigh* its called hit and run, not hit and hide, 30 sec cooldown max, as it's already too much, 2 shot forge gun, you serious? make it more op whydontcha, no noob solo'ing tanks please. modules have delay before activation so it'd be impossible to survive in a shield tank+armor would be more OP. max 5800 hp shields, maybe slightly less, but max hp buff is NEEDED to counter forge guns/flux nades, 45 sec for modules is too long for hit and run, maybe 20-25 sec. hardeners get buff to max 35% dr proto and 20 sec long duration. I am merely giving examples they can always be tweaked. Hit and Run won't apply to tanks in the same manner as dropsuits. Tankers and dropsukts are entirely different beasts and should be treated as such. Unlike dropsuits you have to consider a tanks time in the "hotzone" not just the engagement time. I said 45 secs because a shield tanker will likely need to spend 5secs either side of his attack, enterering or leaving the "hotzone" especially with such low passive health. If you kept health as low as it is or around that point in my example, the sheild tanker would only get 15secs before he needs to leave on your modules. However armour tanker are slower than a snail in jelly so they are likely to require 10-15 secs either side just to get in and out. This is why he has so much passive health, he couldn't cut it with active modules because he would need to leave before he got there. As for the cool down, I was trying to generous enough to the infantry. 2mins tops is sensible enough, its enough time for you to headback to the safe/redzone, restock on ammo and return to the fight. Also you have to consider time to retaliate. If a sheild tank has a 30sec colldown on modules you don't exactly get much time to push, and the constant cycle of actives it will be indestructible. If your are gonna keep up a barage of fire for 25-30secs you have to be prepared to give the enemy team time to counterattack, for the sake of balance. With an armour tank who stays in engagement longer, his over heat allows the enemy time for mini counter attacks. But frequently and unlike the sheild tank they are more likely to be forced out of the engagement zone by av! Tankers wanted power, thats what Im giving them, but it has to come at a price!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 736	Posted - 2013.09.25 21:30:00 - [7] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Now 1st off i must say we are doing this wrong. The community, me included, is fighting almost daily ,Tankers vs AV and now our posts are unproductive. Now OBVIOUSLY everyone has a different point of VIEW. ... This post is NOT TO DISCUSS anything, but to share what WE THINK would help balance the game towards an enjoyable experience.Tankers and AVers are both invited now PLEASE take into consideration CCP might read this so keep it balanced and as less biased as possible. Now before you start with your; you are not a tanker crap i'll say.Im an AVer.But i have 2 tanker accounts now one over 8 mill armor tank and a new one 3 mil shield tanker (God those things are awful) Im going to start: -Armor tank HP buff (AT LEAST +50% more HP) + Slight speed reduction (So that when equipped with Torque increasing modules or/and Nitro they will be fast but not as fast as shield tanks) -Shield HP buff (At least +40% more HP,they would still have la lot less HP than Armored tanks) + Regenerator buff -Shield tanks are supposed to,same as shield dropsuits, to be hit and run abusers.They need at least a 100%-200% increase in shield regen per second (Say from 22 to 44 or 66 per second).This would make the hit and run strategy viable. -AV STAYS THE SAME -Both type of tanks have increased damage reduction vs non AV weapory. -Prox mines Have a big buff, making them the ULTIMATE AV weapon,but the most annoying to use This helps the balance since tanks would be a lot harder to kill with at least 8000-14000 HP (armor tanks) and AV in general will only be able to push them back, BUT if they eat some prox mines they would be highly damaged.This is balance: TAnks die less to AV in general, tanks die easily to Prox Mines, making ZONING and positioning the new AV vs Tank WAR. -AVers Get WP for Conecting hits to tanks, say 30WP per hit (in case o plasma cannons and FGs),10 WP per grenade and 5 per swarm. THIS WAY Av specialists have an incentive to keep Tanks at bay.This WP were assigned to have some relation between them but it might be a smaller amount per hit/ Just used as examples. -Dropships need a Buff in general.HP,SPeed and WP gain -LAVs are good as they are.People who heavily invested in LAVs still have powerful vehicles, yet BPO and MLT are crap. I wouldnt touch it.LAV are balanced. - This bro here posted this i think its worth a mention.It regards showing AV infantry on the vehicles map while they are using Lock on with their swarms: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=111974&find=unread -Also swarms SHOULD stay with their Lock-on capability,but missiles should be able to be destroyed..... Again this is MY opinion and the idea of this thread is NOT to discuss them,but to provide YOUR opinion on what should be done. THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION POST, just post your ideas on what needs to be balanced and PLEASE, TROLLS are not welcome , TY. Or you can wait to see what changes they are doing for vehicles, THEN create posts. /thread No most definitely not, this is just a brainstorm, our opinions, simething ccp can prehaps draw on if they so choose!

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