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sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 121	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:40:00 - [31] - Quote Tough question I would say yes, however, av sp should be a little a higher, given that tanks take at least 7mil sp to kit one out, and like line harvest, some maps have some proper cheap places for av to sit, when in these positions they can basicly deny all vehicals from playing with no risk them roofs need to be slanted, towards the battlefield But yeah, 1 tank to 1 good av dude, fair play....
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 622	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:46:00 - [32] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank I miss my Surya and speed fit Sagaris...
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 801	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:49:00 - [33] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank I miss my Surya and speed fit Sagaris... The Speed fit Caldari HAV's will be the new WInmatar HAV's, and I bet you many people will go to teem. Good for me; more cannon fodder for my Maddy, Surya, and (hopefully) Kubera.
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 663	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:52:00 - [34] - Quote If the tank is the best it can be. Hell no. Its like the cost of militia gear going against proto gear and the militia still being able to easily win. Something being killed by 1/10th the price makes no sense if that one thing took it out from its top stats to the last hp. Everyone is usually ok with their death when they are killed by something that costs more or the same, but not ok when something of less expense kills them. If a proto assault get killed by a militia suit, they complain. When a heavy is killed by a assault, they complain. When a proto AR is beat by a std AR, they complain. In the opposite POV- When a std AR is killed by a proto AR, they don't complain. When an assault is killed by a heavy, they don't complain. When a militia is killed by a proto, they don't complain. When the one costing less wins, the more expensive on complains. When the more expensive one wins, the one costing less doesn't complain. BUT NO When a Proto AV player is killed by a tank, they get to complain. When a tank is killed by Proto AV player, the tank can't complain. Why, do you ask? Well because we just aren't. When we complain, people start talking about how they LOVE the argument tanks make that they should win because of they cost more. Well guess what? You, infantry, make the exact same argument when you get killed by something less expensive.
J Lav OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 221	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:03:00 - [35] - Quote A single player armed with Proto AV should be able to solo a tank, but it should be very difficult. 1. The tank has to be a credible threat to the player with AV. 2. The circumstance of the encounter should be the largest factor in AV. 3. It should in some respect, reflect the reality of today - though not in a direct simulation, but more as a charicature reflects the truth of its personality in an exaggerated form. ie. Tanks were initially impossible to damage when they first appeared on the battlefield. A slow moving hulk of armour, protecting the occupants. an unstoppable, but slow moving tank. Weaponry developed to be able to nullify the armour of a tank, and now even compact systems can be used to destroy tanks. So Tanks nullify the most common small arms, but have become mobile weapons platforms that move quickly and put out massive damage.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1201	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:05:00 - [36] - Quote ''Its like the cost of militia gear going against proto gear and the militia still being able to easily win. Something being killed by 1/10th the price makes no sense if that one thing took it out from its top stats to the last hp.'' Yeah like you CANT get killed in Proto dropsuit by MLT FGs,ARs,Submachineguns,nades,snipers...etc... Skill WILL ALWAYS be on top of equipment cost. YES , the proto AV player SHOULD be able to take out a tank solo. This of course is VERY variable. Tha Av specialists need to have some height advantage to be able to shoot without retaliation. Both infantry and The tank present a danger. The tanker STILL will have modules and enough time to run. Its a Fact,taht even if tankers say their tanks are UP, 1 good tanker will never get killed by 1 AV specialist. By the 2nd shot,they will activate all modules and look for cover. I mean 99% changce, tanker will get away.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2207	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:07:00 - [37] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank Well they can already so the point is moot. Whether or not I say anything wont change it.
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 33	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:18:00 - [38] - Quote Assuming at some point we will get advanced, prototype level tanks and the price of each piece of AV increases to be proportional of that of the tank level. A tank with NO modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: YES A tank with MLT modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: YES A tank with STD modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: YES A tank with ADV modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES, it should take some effort. 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: ES, it should take some effort. 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: ES, it should take some effort. A tank with PRO modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES, it shold be hard. 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES, it shold be hard. 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: YES, it shold be hard.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 937	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:32:00 - [39] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: I apologize, I understand that there are multiple variables at play such as: Player skill, terrain, and other factors. However, I want everyone to take a step back and look at this question at its most basic form: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank Wow, Regnum, a serious question. Imma gonna take it at face value, which makes me feel like Charlie Brown.....which would make you...Lucy....with the football ;) But it is timely, since Wolfie and crew are no doubt finding a lot of gristle to chew on with this topic. Core assumptions: 1) Skillpoints and ISK have no bearing on combat balancing. When peeps use those arguments i instantly discount their contribution to the discussion. 2) The driving design goal here is fun, immersive, deep gameplay. 3) Nothing in this argument is based on our current AV weapons or our current Tanks. Forget swarms, forget grenades, forget forgeguns, forget maddys. Scenario: 2 man deathmatch, tank vs. Proto AV. You intentionally didn't specify the meta level of the tank, let's make it proto also. Tank driver gets stick in a map glitch. AV has perfect position and unlimited ammo. Should he be able to break the tank's tank? -Yes. Over what time frame? -Approx. one active+cooldown cycle of the Proto tank's defensive modules. And for Advanced and Standard tanks reduce the time to live by some factor game designers can come up with.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6438	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:33:00 - [40] - Quote I'd take higher health pools with slower regens on tanks all day every day, but redlines make it an issue at that point. Too much HP and they can just roll into the safety zone and be a ok, every game. If you could actually pursue them, and they had to actually think to recall a vehicle, it would be a different story. At that point I want kill specific salvage because to hell with chasing a tank down the entire match for just the satisfaction (such sweet satisfaction) If salvaging was actually a player skill...yea, that would be fun.

Vrain Matari ZionTCD 937	Posted - 2013.09.22 01:48:00 - [41] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations [i wrote: Should a Proto AV player be able to individually contain a tank[/i] Again let's assume a proto tank. -Yes, if the Proto AV'er is left unopposed and has good position and lots of time. By the same token, the tank with modules active must have the facility to take the full theoretical damage output from the Proto AV and have time to make an impact on the battlefield and retreat to heal up. If tank/AV were balanced like this the practical reality would be that proto AV would find it very difficult to contain a proto tank.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 797	Posted - 2013.09.22 02:09:00 - [42] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak A tank is pretty much the body and weapon for a tank pilot. When the tank is destroyed, the pilot is pretty much useless unless he specced into a good suit as well. In which case would be higher than 10 million sp. As a heavy myself, my forge gun and dropsuit are "one" and to survive and use the weapon, it takes more than 3 million sp to max. I'm already at 13 million and still not maxed. 98% of my sp are solely on forge gun and dropsuit skills with only 500,000 SP's on HMG skills. So no. It doesn't take only 3 million to skill into av. Yes it does. Less than 300,000 SP to get Haywire Wiyrkomis.
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles 258	Posted - 2013.09.22 03:07:00 - [43] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: I apologize, I understand that there are multiple variables at play such as: Player skill, terrain, and other factors. However, I want everyone to take a step back and look at this question at its most basic form: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank not a viable question...should a miltia suit kill a proto?...if the miltia doesn't shoot...he loses...if the proto doesn't shoot he loses...(shoot=miss more, dodge less, throw a nade instead of shooting)....too many variables. the tank only needs to shoot anyone very few to kill...then he wins...if infantry flank tank and sit on hive at close range and nade..or mines..or RE or or or or...not a viable question.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 801	Posted - 2013.09.22 03:09:00 - [44] - Quote J Lav wrote: A single player armed with Proto AV should be able to solo a tank, but it should be very difficult. 1. The tank has to be a credible threat to the player with AV. 2. The circumstance of the encounter should be the largest factor in AV. 3. It should in some respect, reflect the reality of today - though not in a direct simulation, but more as a charicature reflects the truth of its personality in an exaggerated form. ie. Tanks were initially impossible to damage when they first appeared on the battlefield. A slow moving hulk of armour, protecting the occupants. an unstoppable, but slow moving tank. Weaponry developed to be able to nullify the armour of a tank, and now even compact systems can be used to destroy tanks. So Tanks nullify the most common small arms, but have become mobile weapons platforms that move quickly and put out massive damage. soloing a vehicle should be always possible. Viable? Hell no.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 801	Posted - 2013.09.22 03:13:00 - [45] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Assuming at some point we will get advanced, prototype level tanks and the price of each piece of AV increases to be proportional of that of the tank level. A tank with NO modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs ENFORCER tank: YES A tank with MLT modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES A tank with STD modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES A tank with ADV modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES, it should take some effort. 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: ES, it should take some effort. A tank with PRO modules... 1 PRO AV vs MLT tank: YES, it shold be hard. 1 PRO AV vs STD tank: YES, it shold be hard. A enforcer is a STD HAV, so fixed
Coleman Gray GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 711	Posted - 2013.09.22 04:45:00 - [46] - Quote I feel it should take an close to equal amount of SP for AV to kill tanks, Example a tanker has 10 mill SP into vehicle skills, it should take X number of players with a total SP spent into AV equal, greater or witl a mill or 2 SP differnce to kill that tanker.
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 76	Posted - 2013.09.22 05:09:00 - [47] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully specced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank no, its a sheer difference in gameplay style. also the amount going into the two are at ends. also realistically a rail gun that is 100x larger than an av grenade should do somewhere near that in damage applying splash and all. why not have the railgun shoot av grenades. oh wait that would be really bad for dropships. I have proto swarms and the highest skill involved with them I also have the highest tank skill on both armor and shield. my swarms cant even scratch shield however i only need to shoot an armor twice. or nade them twice. I stopped piloting a shield tank because it is luck of the draw if i'm going to instapop in a game. with armor i'm able to flee with nitro, armor can be fitted with the best fits. heres my advice. level out the bonus damage between damage types to 2% damage for exp to armor. (currently its at somewhere around 10 % explosive vs armor) the damage of the regular forge vs shield is fine but the regular forge is way too accurate at long range, make the fall off more extreme. also add that to assault. with assault however it does too much damage for how fast it shoots. It should be FAR less, bringing it in line with the other assault variants of other weapons like the mass driver. large missiles really got messed up at some point. they aren't even competitive against armor anymore, they don't do any splash wtf happened to missiles. same for railgun splash, whatever. anyway. buff shields a bit OR have them not take so much damage from hybrid OR just have the shield booster give the same number of bursts as the armor repper OR add more PG to shield tanks. seriously what is the role of the shield tank if they 1. cant compete with armor tanks. 2 can't contend with proto assault forge. and 3 get out gunned by rail armor tanks. and finally Lai Dai AV nades are straight up OP, shield or armor.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 946	Posted - 2013.09.22 06:59:00 - [48] - Quote An interesting topic. Tiercide was premptively done with vehicle hulls, but not with dropsuits. It was not, however, done to turrets. Perhaps, tiercide across the board is the best way to deal with this. That way, all tanks are STD and all AV is STD. Then no tank will ever be solo'd that is good and ill be happy. I dont think proto AV should even exist, to answer your question. It's like having Duvolle ARs with 3 damage mods shooting at you when you only can equip basic plates or extenders.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 570	Posted - 2013.09.22 07:25:00 - [49] - Quote counter question: should a tank give you artificial number advantage? obvious answer is no. when that happens, teams with more tanks win, simple as that, that is not rocket science. so the answer to the question, tanks should be soloable. tank is not there to make you hard to kill, tank is a zoning tool, when will people get that in their heads? anyway, current tanks have enough survivability to get into cover when shot by a single guy. some fits survive 6 proto swarm shots, thats 15s of continous fire (not to mention shield tanks that a swarm user will never bring down in reasonable timeframe). if you or your team let the single guy stand in the open to continously shoot missiles for that amount of time you deserve the loss of your toy. suits that cost 300k often do not even have the chance to run away when a core grenade lands on your head or you get shot by a forge gun.
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 351	Posted - 2013.09.22 07:40:00 - [50] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak A tank is pretty much the body and weapon for a tank pilot. When the tank is destroyed, the pilot is pretty much useless unless he specced into a good suit as well. In which case would be higher than 10 million sp. As a heavy myself, my forge gun and dropsuit are "one" and to survive and use the weapon, it takes more than 3 million sp to max. I'm already at 13 million and still not maxed. 98% of my sp are solely on forge gun and dropsuit skills with only 500,000 SP's on HMG skills. So no. It doesn't take only 3 million to skill into av. QFT Speccing into prototype AV is quite frankly more intensive than speccing into prototype fit tanks, (with regards to FG.) When speccing into tanks, yes most skills are indeed 5x skills, but for an overwhelming majority of the proto modules you only need to spec into level III, anything beyond that is generally just for getting more fitting efficacy. This means to use most prototype modules on a tank, you only need to invest about half a mil. Heck, you only need to get one level into Cal/Gal HAV to use the madrugar or gunnlogi. To spec into a prototype AV and fit out yourself in proto mudules, while most skills are around 3x, you need to max them out which takes in and around just under a million SP. Proto armor reps? 1 mil SP. Proto Shield Extender? 1 mil SP. Forge Gun? Upwards of 3 million SP to make it really effective. Both Electronics and Engineering need to be V for fitting and that's around another 3 mil. Want Prototype damage mods? Weaponry V. Want Prototype Armor plates so you don't die while using damage mods? Armor level V. Proto AV nades? Another skill to V. And you can toss in another around 3 million to just get into the suit itself. I'd wager you'd find that to fit a fully proto fatsuit and forge gun it would take -more- SP than to field a Gunnlogi with proto modules.

Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 813	Posted - 2013.09.22 08:09:00 - [51] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Jake Diesel wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak A tank is pretty much the body and weapon for a tank pilot. When the tank is destroyed, the pilot is pretty much useless unless he specced into a good suit as well. In which case would be higher than 10 million sp. As a heavy myself, my forge gun and dropsuit are "one" and to survive and use the weapon, it takes more than 3 million sp to max. I'm already at 13 million and still not maxed. 98% of my sp are solely on forge gun and dropsuit skills with only 500,000 SP's on HMG skills. So no. It doesn't take only 3 million to skill into av. QFT Speccing into prototype AV is quite frankly more intensive than speccing into prototype fit tanks, (with regards to FG.) When speccing into tanks, yes most skills are indeed 5x skills, but for an overwhelming majority of the proto modules you only need to spec into level III, anything beyond that is generally just for getting more fitting efficacy. This means to use most prototype modules on a tank, you only need to invest about half a mil. Heck, you only need to get one level into Cal/Gal HAV to use the madrugar or gunnlogi. To spec into a prototype AV and fit out yourself in proto mudules, while most skills are around 3x, you need to max them out which takes in and around just under a million SP. Proto armor reps? 1 mil SP. Proto Shield Extender? 1 mil SP. Forge Gun? Upwards of 3 million SP to make it really effective. Both Electronics and Engineering need to be V for fitting and that's around another 3 mil. Want Prototype damage mods? Weaponry V. Want Prototype Armor plates so you don't die while using damage mods? Armor level V. Proto AV nades? Another skill to V. And you can toss in another around 3 million to just get into the suit itself. I'd wager you'd find that to fit a fully proto fatsuit and forge gun it would take -more- SP than to field a Gunnlogi with proto modules. But then when they change the modules to where it's just like the infantry ones, it will be vehicles.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 341	Posted - 2013.09.22 08:54:00 - [52] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank One person specced to proto AV should be able to solo a tank when it is vulnerable. i.e. is in its cool down phase; which would be when it is patrolling away from the battle and coming around for another pass or when it just sits there in the heat of the battle long enough to get extra shots on it. A skilled AVer ought to have to be smart about where to plant themselves or catch the tank when it's down and not just sit on a roof and pelt a tank to death as it passes with its mods running. They should have to hunt the tank. Only a dedicated group of say 3 or more should be able to so easily down a tank when its mods are running. The tank changes detailed in the dev post would or should make this happen. Tanks will be temporarily powerful then have to patrol around and rep or recoup and then re-enter the fight. A tank being dead or alive shouldn't be the focus of the power of a solo AV but rather to force the tank to retreat out of battle. Just so I understand you correctly, 1. When a tanks mods are activate, the tanker should be reasonably unaffected by one Proto AV player\ 2. Terrain placement is necessary for AV players 3. If the Proto AV wants to kill the tank, he should thus have to leave his comfort zone and hunt the tank. 4. At least three AV to slay a tank with Mods active 5. AV is more about containing the tank away fro hot zone, rather then outright slaying the tank. Now lets put the original question on hold and move towards the containment aspect of AV. Should a Proto AV player be able to individually contain a tank Now this makes more sense. Yes. I'm going to add another idea. How about modules with diminishing returns? A hardener will give you full resist for about the first 3 volleys of a proto swarm or however many AV grenades. After that, resist decreases. This would do the same thing in that if the tanker sticks around he can be soloed; otherwise, he has to leave the hot zone due to diminishing efficacy of modules after which he goes into full vulnerability at cooldown mode.
Chances Ghost D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 990	Posted - 2013.09.22 09:29:00 - [53] - Quote come on guys.... a single guy with AV will always be able to take out a tank solo. unless you literally make them unable to be destroyed. so debating weather or not a single guy should be able to solo a tank is kind of irrelevent. REGs you should know better... stop causing troll threads with this nonsence...
Rei Shepard Spectre II 614	Posted - 2013.09.22 09:33:00 - [54] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak Because all Proto AV guys run around in just Proto AV gun, setup in a Free Militia suit, yeah that makes sense.... I am at 21m SP and my suit is still getting one shotted from 10m 'godly' as you say it tank setups... And yes, tanks should stay soloble for 1 guy who decides to pull out an AV Proto fit, because he is vulnerable against all other suits on the field. Tank > Infantry > AV infantry > Tanks <-- this is how it should be...
Mejt Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.09.22 12:22:00 - [55] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak Because all Proto AV guys run around in just Proto AV gun, setup in a Free Militia suit, yeah that makes sense.... I am at 21m SP and my suit is still getting one shotted from 10m 'godly' as you say it tank setups... And yes, tanks should stay soloble for 1 guy who decides to pull out an AV Proto fit, because he is vulnerable against all other suits on the field. Tank > Infantry > AV infantry > Tanks <-- this is how it should be... That sounds good. AV infiantry should solo. Because he spec in his job, but at same time he is very weak vs every other infiantry. But now i can only see fg/swarms on hills or roof tops. And dummy snipers dont kill them.
demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:04:00 - [56] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: I apologize, I understand that there are multiple variables at play such as: Player skill, terrain, and other factors. However, I want everyone to take a step back and look at this question at its most basic form: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank only if one meta is higher than the other, if a meta 7 AV takes a meta 6 or under tank then yes, soloing should be an option - through skill and determination, not by rediculous damage, but if AV is meta 7 and tank is meta 7 the tank should be very capable at mitigating said threat and only be worried about multiple meta 7 AVers
demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:05:00 - [57] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Chances Ghost wrote: i think you cant balance based on that question a bad tanker will always lose to a solo wykomi a good tanker will always live idealy... what about a good tanker vs a good solo av? then the tanker would be smart enough to recall, if not then hes not a good tanker or just doesnt care about isk
demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:08:00 - [58] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: not if your tank is a fully proto tank. But the only problem one costs 3 million sp to max out, while as tanks can cost 6-10 million sp to become godly. and even then your still to weak A tank is pretty much the body and weapon for a tank pilot. When the tank is destroyed, the pilot is pretty much useless unless he specced into a good suit as well. In which case would be higher than 10 million sp. As a heavy myself, my forge gun and dropsuit are "one" and to survive and use the weapon, it takes more than 3 million sp to max. I'm already at 13 million and still not maxed. 98% of my sp are solely on forge gun and dropsuit skills with only 500,000 SP's on HMG skills. So no. It doesn't take only 3 million to skill into av. You're right, it only costs me about 650k sp to skill into proto AV lvl5 operation + lvl1 proficiency I can solo any tank my 3mil sp av alt comes across - putting more SP into av after said 650k only makes it easier, i feel sorry for tankers that come across morte and taz rocking packed laidais and wyrkomis/ proto forges
demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:14:00 - [59] - Quote ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: ReGnUM Public Relations wrote: Do you think a player fully speced into Proto AV should be able to solo a tank One person specced to proto AV should be able to solo a tank when it is vulnerable. i.e. is in its cool down phase; which would be when it is patrolling away from the battle and coming around for another pass or when it just sits there in the heat of the battle long enough to get extra shots on it. A skilled AVer ought to have to be smart about where to plant themselves or catch the tank when it's down and not just sit on a roof and pelt a tank to death as it passes with its mods running. They should have to hunt the tank. Only a dedicated group of say 3 or more should be able to so easily down a tank when its mods are running. The tank changes detailed in the dev post would or should make this happen. Tanks will be temporarily powerful then have to patrol around and rep or recoup and then re-enter the fight. A tank being dead or alive shouldn't be the focus of the power of a solo AV but rather to force the tank to retreat out of battle. Just so I understand you correctly, 1. When a tanks mods are activate, the tanker should be reasonably unaffected by one Proto AV player\ 2. Terrain placement is necessary for AV players 3. If the Proto AV wants to kill the tank, he should thus have to leave his comfort zone and hunt the tank. 4. At least three AV to slay a tank with Mods active 5. AV is more about containing the tank away fro hot zone, rather then outright slaying the tank. Now lets put the original question on hold and move towards the containment aspect of AV. Should a Proto AV player be able to individually contain a tank really thought it already takes more than 1 proto AV user to kill a good tank, as soon as you start taking swarm/forge/av damage pop on those hardners and wallah you have 60% damage resist, i cant say a single proto av user has ever or will ever kill my tanks unless i get lag and am unable to turn my modules on and retreat, i really dont have a problem with the way it currently is, sure invis swarms are annoying, but hay if you want to nerf av and buff tanks, im cool with that too
demonkiller 12 G.U.T.Z Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2013.09.22 13:16:00 - [60] - Quote Evane Sa'edi wrote: You don't need full spec AV due to the changes in Swarm Launchers from 1.4 - I can now get three flights of 6 missiles in the air as quickly as I can lock to target (a base damage of 5940) increased by skill and damage mods. I have 14+ million sp & have not max'd the AV skills. and then we cut 60% off that 6k damage



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