Your new maps are totally sniper unfriendly. No high points, most facilities have fences on the roof and around the building. So snipers have to find a spot where they can watch for targets, because a sniper rifle is absolutely no good as an assault weapon, and the scout suits are so weak, in shield and armor.

Now add on to this that we have to actually take a step, or fire our weapon, which can give away our position because just scanning an area zooming in and out looking for a target trips the "TACNET sessions will expire if no action is taken" and if we see something coming through the buildings (so we don't want to give away our position) we are kicked out!

This is absolutely **! I played a long time to get to lvl 5 scout so I could use it for sniping. A LOT of time and also money to try to have something to enjoy playing the game.

What a waste. If I could, I would want all my money that I put into the game back, and would even like to get paid for the wasted time.

Please do something about this timer, at least for snipers. You created the suit, yet you continuously ignore the pleads of those using the scout suit - but you gladly listen to and respond to everyone who cries about afk'rs and the op sniper. A scout (especially a sniper using a scout suit) needs to be able to use the equipment that you make them work so hard to try to get leveled into, yet is then crippled even more by whiners that you listen to and want to take care of - not thinking about those of us that need to lay still, or move slowly.

Addendum: Not fair that you add any deaths to my count, but not the kills if I leave or am kicked trying to snipe. If Imust loose equipment and have that death tallied, then I should also get credit for any kills.

Im gonna get lynched for this, but dude, this is care-bear tier of balance.
This is just wrong on so many levels.

The hardest part to take out of all this is that my Python will - from now on out - be useless during an active hack.

In the older content, I can watch an objective and rain down missiles from above until A) friendly support shows up; or B) enemy AV shows up.

I really liked this and felt like it was balanced, because there is no way I'll be leaving my ship to hack that objective on my own, so I was really just there as a guard dog. I haven't had the opportunity to do that yet on these new outposts, which takes away from my short list of functions I can perform.

Python List of Duties:

• Area Denial
• Kill Mercs
• Kill HAVs
• Kill Installations
• Light Squad Transport
• Pretty Flaming Light Show
• Defend Objectives

I've spent 14mil sp into a scout and feel as I am militia grade. I've spent frustrating hours trying to compete, I seriously have to try hard. I don't use ARs I don't use grenades, not the MD. As you can see there is a knifing community, so fix our knives. The only sure kills are ppl standing still. You are killing me CCP, you are killing me over and over.

While I admire your ability to follow a formula when designing sniper positions, reality says that i should not have to use a dropship to get to a "sniper pad". This defeats the purpose of sniping, to kill without being seen. It also limits people to only using the designated sniper pads and due to the fact that it does not limit anyone from finding a location in which they can both not be seen and can still snipe you from anywhere on the ground level, the design element of rails around all the tops of the buildings of many of the new maps which can neither be jumped over nor climbed or vaulted is shortsighted. I can't count the number of times in the last year that a merc has placed an uplink in an inaccessible location, to either leave the location or get to it.

This is not just a sniper problem. This is a heavy, scout, assault and logi problem, whatever gun they are using. Sniping on many of the new maps is not as prominent in the game yet but as the sniper pads are found and used it will return most likely to the way it was pre patch. The railings not only block snipers from shooting but also block mercs at the top of the buildings from engaging the enemy without long jogs around to the few openings they have and as such please consider removing SOME of the railings.

]Listen, I hate snipers, and I really wish he had better intel to locate where they are firing from, but is arbitrarily blocking them past a certain point really the answer?

Couldn't we be given better tools? Or better yet, couldn't you just have their guns miss most of the time by having them shooting way outside of falloff? But at least they *could* have a chance to hit someone with a "wrecking" shot if the stars aligned.

There are some coding heuristics that are trivial to implement that would solve this problem (it would literally take a programmer less than an hour to fix this). If you ADS and are moving your scope in a random pattern (i.e. not with a rubber-band which will constantly output the same x,y coordinates) or are highlighting enemies with your aiming marker, then you're clearly not AFK. You may be a bad sniper, or are in a stupid position, but that's different than not physically being present at the controller. These players should be punished with low WPs and less than exciting payouts (as they already are), but kicking them from the match isn't right.

First off, I'm confused why a whine about anti-AFK measures, has a first post that has virutally no mention of AFK, but keeps whining about what a lousy sniper the OP is.

but anyway, back to the AFK issue: totally broken, **BY DESIGN**.
The design is inherently broken. So long as you keep making it possible for a player to passively get SP, just for existing, there will be ways to game it.

Yesterday, I saw some bozo, who had rigged his char to just repeatedly jump up and down, firing at a wall.
Fairly easy to do.

The only real fixes:

1. No passive SP gain while you are behind your own redline.
This is the minimum change that will actually do something

2. no passive SP gain at all. Make it so you only gain SP for combat related actions.
ie: expending bullets ON A TARGET. Not just "firing your weapon in the air".
Taking damage should also continue to count towards SP.
Then, INCREASE the amount of SP that these things give you.

Benefits of this system:
These would be even more newb friendly: many newbs cant actually get a kill, but do manage to get a few bullets on target before they die.

Additionaly, it would drastically cut down on redline sniping.
Which in one way is good, but in another way is bad. More maps need to have 400m out locations. 300-400m is the appropriate deployment distance for a sniper.
Some of the smaller maps, the only way you can get 400m out, is to go into redline.

It is really tedious to deal with sniper that is busily covering an objective. It is really tedious to deal with snipers in Ambush.

Both are reasonable, though.

Where snipers fail, and I see this more than I see the previous two, is running out, redlining, and then trying to get a "big kill count! FTW!" when it isn't the objective, they aren't helping their team, and all they manage to do is annoy those that are actually playing.

Sniping should have a purpose beyond getting a kill count.

More on-topic: AFK isn't reset by just looking through the scope? Surprising.

Totally agree... Snipers are supposed to dominate key terrain if requried. If you can't figure out how to clear the sniper out before hacking then drive a vehicle up or two to give you a mobile barrier when you hack.

Can we take this as official confirmation the Dust team has abandoned work on randomly generated terrain? Because if you haven't, this set of rules is bogus as you have no control over what terrain would be randomly generated to give a sniper such an advantage.

So in short, the number one job of an effective Sniper is something you try to actively prevent now? I was always most effective at a high spot with a decent overlook on an objective, and with a clear shot on anyone approaching. There were a few places where they could make a hack and I couldn't shoot them, but these new maps, if you try to get on any decent looking spot, it instantly kills you.

Now, I can go shotgunning, or load my militia fit with my militia AR, but that's not fun to me. I like Sniping and hunting long range. I like how this game has it to where a Sniper Rifle isn't always an instant kill, which makes me have to think a bit more tactically on my targets. Do I soften that heavy? Do I kill that militia guy who's moving to flank my buddy? Do I shoot now and make them hesitate on rushing across the open, or do I wait? All of this has been stripped from us in these new maps.

I do like the Research Facility socket, I really do. But when all maps use that exclusively, and leave no main choke points or pathways for a Sniper to overwatch, it really kills our value to the team. We already get a bad name from Plinkers.

And to counter snipers, here's a list of how:

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.

While you may think we are trying to prevent you from playing your role, we are not. You do not even know the actual meter count, or ranges that make up the rules. You only know that we have taken measures to ensure snipers are not in mass dominating an entire map (like Manus Peak).

This is the direction that leadership wants this, because they have a vision of what the game play is to be for every role, and how each role supports one another. The sniper is not dead.

Our goal, and it has been achieved with this socket set, is preventing entire areas from being completely dominated by snipers. Biomass and Communications is another great example. Where the only access to those top areas is a dropship, and an army of snipers reside there. Dominating an entire outpost. This is not "fun" for the people who are playing the game the way we intended it to be played.

We use sight lines, the rule set I discussed earlier, and general layouts to encourage effective game play from each role. Strategy and tactics entails using logic, and planning, coordination with others, effective dropsuit fittings, and weapons load-outs. What we are encouraging is "thinking".

You can still snipe, you can still be useful to your team. If you so desire to try and play with your squads and other players in an effective way.

Doesn't feel bad for snipers, good riddance.

I hate to get sniped so I love the new maps! Learn to adjust

How awful it would be if you'd actually *gasp* die to something other than a countersnipe!

Hello community.

With the release of the new Surface Infrastructure (Sockets) set, and the new terrain with game modes. We want to get some very specific feedback. All the positive feedback is greatly appreciated. And we are all excited to hear you love what we have done.

However, we have one topic we have not seen a lot of comments on yet and that is the topic of complexity. We want to know how you feel about the complexity of these maps. It would help us greatly to answer the following questions.

1. For the new Research Facility. Overall, did you feel it was too complex or not very complex in layout and navigation?
2. For the supporting smaller sockets (mediums and smalls) in the SI Set. Did you feel these were too complex or not very complex?
3. For the new game mode area Border Gulch, did you feel its layout and navigation was too complex or not complex enough?
4. For the new game mode area Fracture Road, did you feel its layout and navigation was too complex or not complex enough?
5. For the new game mode area Impact Ridge, did you feel its layout and navigation was too complex or not complex enough?
6. Do you have any other comments or concerns not covered in this short list you would like to say?

We primarily want to find a general consensus on if the players are getting easily confused by the maps or not when it comes to navigation so we can take it into consideration as we continue to develop more game play areas for you.

Thanks you for taking the time to answer these questions.

Forgive my frustration, it just irritates me that folks know it's broken for snipers, but then act like it isn't just because they hate the role.
There are indeed many problems with the sniper role mostly centered on the weapon imo. The sniper rifle weapon itself was balanced for the Codex build, but nothing today remotely resembles Codex.

The sway in ADS was meant to regulate quick-scoping at closer range, it also enforces a mandatory settling time to line up and fire a 100% steadied shot; just wiggling your big toe causes you to seizure and throws the sway haywire again, penalizing you for the slightest possible movement. This feature is a big problem at engagement ranges of 100-150m, where a lot of snipers are finding themselves in the new maps (it's either get close, or be useless. Non-sniper players don't mind this. It makes snipers easier to kill, which is all they care about, but building a map and balancing can't be done with just their viewpoint in mind.)
Closing in on a sniper is not difficult at this point, and a player needs to only be at 80-100m to knock a sniper out in a flash. At that point, you find sniper's finding it more reasonable to pick up a utility weapon. The 100m range belongs to utility weapons, not sniper rifles.

The weapons have small clips, and longer reload times compared to their utility weapon counterparts, and as it stands right now, doing what's necessary to use a sniper rifle as fire support in a match usually gets you killed in the heat of battle. Blending in with the environment is not reliable due to prevalence of active scanners, and even at the edge of utility weapon range, the dps from an AR or Scrambler rifle at the edge of their effective (not absolute) range is still generally fast enough to put a sniper down before he can get off a 2nd round.

I wish I could share footage... maybe I'll go and purchase an input capture box today. I keep putting it off.

In addition to elevated or complex structures on the new maps at key postiions. I also propose only 2 changes to the sniper rifle itself:

- Eliminate sway penalty for movement while crouched.
This has little bearing on Overwatch Snipers, but this will enable Fire Support Snipers to be more useful than fodder, since it will allow them to move back and forth from behind cover, without totally losing their aim constantly.

- Eliminate sway penalty when NOT moving while standing.
Again, Fire Support Snipers benefit from this. This will allow snipers to stop in the middle of a fight, and take a quick shot at someone with zero sway, but if they try to strafe, they will instantly lose their aim.

Snipers are worse than Tank drivers, jesus..

An entire thread devoted to defending the following
- Snipers should be allowed to Redline snipe with no penalty
- Snipers should be allowed to place themselves out of reach of infantry
- Snipers should only be counterable by either other snipers (Rock counters Rock, gg)
- Infantry should have to use dropships to counter snipers, because of course, flying them is easy, and the sniper won't see it coming or run away from the person with the dropship. (Resulting in a 70k+ waste of equipment per attempt)
- While snipers can already hit people going towards objectives, that's not enough. Snipers should have dominance over objective hack points as well, at distances exceeding 400M+
- Scout suits need to be tougher, because they don't have enough HP when using all their high slots to stack damage mods
- (Insert any of the many completely ******** things snipers have posted in this thread in defense of their class being OP)

Tl;Dr - Snipers can get bent, they have it easy enough as it is, and CCP should be applauded by making efforts to even the field, giving foot soldiers the ability to counter snipers.

Don't like a shotgun to the back of the head? It's called situational awareness. Get some. Your kills should not be handed to you on a silver platter with no risk involved.

Snipers are worse than Tank drivers, jesus..

An entire thread devoted to defending the following
- Snipers should be allowed to Redline snipe with no penalty
- Snipers should be allowed to place themselves out of reach of infantry
- Snipers should only be counterable by either other snipers (Rock counters Rock, gg)
- Infantry should have to use dropships to counter snipers, because of course, flying them is easy, and the sniper won't see it coming or run away from the person with the dropship. (Resulting in a 70k+ waste of equipment per attempt)
- While snipers can already hit people going towards objectives, that's not enough. Snipers should have dominance over objective hack points as well, at distances exceeding 400M+
- Scout suits need to be tougher, because they don't have enough HP when using all their high slots to stack damage mods
- (Insert any of the many completely ******** things snipers have posted in this thread in defense of their class being OP)

Tl;Dr - Snipers can get bent, they have it easy enough as it is, and CCP should be applauded by making efforts to even the field, giving foot soldiers the ability to counter snipers.

Don't like a shotgun to the back of the head? It's called situational awareness. Get some. Your kills should not be handed to you on a silver platter with no risk involved.

You non-snipers are absolutely, truly, INCAPABLE, thoroughly INCAPABLE of seeing this game from ANY other viewpoint.
So.... I'll address this 1 by 1, since you've proven so thoroughly to be incapable of reading the OP.

- Yes. If their team is redlined. Duh. (Do you need a hammer to the head to make this clear? Nvm. That wouldn't help.)
- Yes. Because the sniper rifle is a highly inefficient weapon to use if you're within assault rifle range! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS? KNOCK KNOCK. It's a "long range" (get it? LONG RANGE) weapon. Hellooooooo? This would be a simple matter of using the appropriate weapon, but it's not; and it's not because EVERY MAP that will EVER BE will be off limits to the long range sniper role! Did you read this? Where is your comprehension at?

- Yes. If a sniper has situated his position, and it is defensible against every other means. A smart sniper will try to get into a position that he can defend on his own if necessary. He bothered to put the thought into his positioning, but you'd rather he be one of those poor blokes you see crouching down in the middle of a street wouldn't you? You act as if snipers can deploy an impentrable igloo right in the middle of a map. (Actually, this is something that you non-sniper dimwits request every so often. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=593253#post593253
- This is a total non-sequitur. Snipers that attempt to fly up to perches, often get shot down by forge gunners or swarmers as well. The sniper's role is broken and OP because you find it inconvienient to kill them? LUDICROUS. By your logic, tanks should be taken out of the game, because AV would be too risky and expensive to deploy! If the sniper (player 1) has to work hard, and put forth thought, effort, and risk resource, in order to perform his role with high efficiency; so too must the person that wishes to kill said sniper. If that sniper jumps off the tower because he sees you coming, then you just accomplished your mission! Don't you see that? He's NOT on the tower anymore!

- Yes. Because battles happen BY OBJECTIVES, uplinks are dropped BY OBJECTIVES, everything relevant is BY THE OBJECTIVE! So what purpose has the sniper role if it can't do anything about THE OBJECTIVE? Previously, a sniper could be a first line of defense, or a last line of defense for an objective, but it could NEVER supplant the necessity of boots on the ground moving on or around the objective. It worked as a supplement to a squad as a long range, force multiplier. ALL it EVER took to take out this so-called "OP" role, was:
1 flanker or 1 countersniper.
That's it.
But you guys were too lazy to run (or drive) around and flank a sniper, you were too lazy to hop in a dropship... jesus christ, you were too lazy to pick up a sniper rifle! Then you want to get all filled with bravado, jumping on the forums pounding your chest and crying out "HTFU"? What a total double standard, and you're too blind to even see what you're saying!

Some bullshit
[/b]

Sorry you havr entirely misconstrued LogicLoops intention, sniping isn't dead, your just not doing it right!! I have corp members who still use snipers to great effect on the new maps!!

LogicLoop is using thr maps to return the risk, to the risk/reward style play. Snipers aren't dead, they just aren't meant to be used in the way YOU want them to. There is still plenty of open space, still plenty of choke points for you to harass, still plenty of installations you can "guard".

Its not about having nests, hidey holes, and the like, its about moving to support your team/squad based on the action, its being a little closer than prehaps you'd like so you can get that shot, and its not necessarily mabout 1 shotting everyone!!

Its time to adapt, like we all have, take the new style of play and make it your own!!

Read your OP, it was nothing but complaining. Also, I have over 17 Million SP, heavily invested in Heavies, Logistics, AV, and Assault, with an alt at 5.5M, Full scout. I've tried sniping, and frankly I've found it **** easy - a monkey could do it.

1) If you're redlined, get a real gun out and go help
2) No kidding a sniper isint an assault rifle? What, you think it should be? You have a sidearm for a reason - use it. You don't deserve special treatment just because you chose to use a long-distance weapon. That's the most ******** thing i've ever heard. Go talk to a real Sniper, ask them what happens if someone gets the drop on them. I'm fairly sure they won't start complaining that it's "Not fair their sniper rifle isin't designed to be used at close range". Moron.

3-4) This is a video game, which is supposed to be fair to all players. Giving players unfair advantages just because they decided to use a different set of weaponry goes counter to good game design. Again, CCP clearly gets this point and is making changes, so you can complain all you want. I'll simply sit back and laugh as snipers keep having their various impenetrable fortress spots nerfed to oblivion. Allow me to start by pointing and laughing at you specifically - "Ho ha!"

5) So what you're saying is that you have the following..
- Fire superiority when someone approaches the objective (First line of defence, as you put it)
- Fire superiority against people in open terrain (Still first)
- Fire superiority against people who take cover(Because they're only going to come out again and get 1 shotted)
Now you also want
- Fire superiority and easy kills for people who - by game design - are forced to stay still while taking objective points?

Did I sum that all up? So, people taking objectives should be punished because it takes time to hack, just because some moron picked up a sniper rifle? Fine, I want sniper rifle ranged reduced to 200M, so that teams don't have to travel all the way across the map to protect their teammates. And no - you can't always "park a vehicle"in the way. They aren't that high off the ground to prevent a sniper from getting a shot at the person hacking. Again, GO CCP FOR DESIGNING MAPS WITH THIS IN MIND.

- Snipers have ludicrous range
- Sniper KDR's generally exceed 10:1
- Snipers can 1 shot players with body shots
- Infantry have no way of knowing past 100M where a player is - snipers can sit at distances over 500M+. The only way to find out where they are is to get shot by one. How fair is that? Not very

Who hey hey less of the monkey, I may found it easy but thats not the point!!
ANYONE can do it, the old maps are risk free and open, now you might have to move into about 90m your flipping your lid!!

no more useless sniper camping on a spot far away getting 2 kills per game and do nothing else. there are plenty of good sniper spots, working as intended.

also there is something calling risk vs. reward. if you fully expect to get rewarded by staying in safety all day long and getting a few kills then you are truly a scrub and just insulted your own intelligence. wake up and get out of your tunnelvision.

You're wrong.

The new maps mean that you are going to have MORE 'useless snipers camping on spots far away getting 2 kills per game and doing nothing else.'

I'm not the one with tunnel vision here.

The "sniper spots" are NOT sniper spots, they are TAC AR and Scrambler positions, because those weapons are better suited at those positions and ranges.

We beg to differ, but well I just can't bothered arguing all this again, I just did in a thread in general discussions, so im not wastingmy time again!!

But before I go, consider this, its a gallante socket pack, gallante hate long range so why would a gallantean make it easy for snipers? The caldari map pack has a lot more sniper spots by the looks of things!!

Ta-Ra!!

No No no! It doesn't feel like an argument with you! I like you! lol

I would LOVE to believe that what you said is the case! It makes perfect sense!

BUT....!

That's not what was indicated by CCP LogicLoop, all he said was that eventually all sockets will adapt the new rule (of X meters by X meters, and total prevention of long range attack on objectives, and that is just NOT fair.)

But if you know something I don't then I salute you.

You won't be able to protect the hack point from afar, but you'll still be able to protect the area around the hack point from afar.

Being sniped while hacking was always stupid and I'm glad they've taken steps to prevent that in the future.

Ok apologise for your comment on me being a smack- and I will discuss, my understanding was that yes the hacking panel would be blocked! Something I believe is fair, if you want to sfop them from hacking then it makes sense to stop him before he gets there right?

And a sniper can always set RE on it!! What I heard is the whole mapsmwont be anti sniper persay, but to get the good shots an views yku need to be exposed, the better the view the more exposed you are, I mean the balcony at b on the new gallante socket screams sniping point to me, but you need your head on a swivel and some points in passive prescion!!

Has anyone even really tried "LONG-RANGE" sniping on the new maps? Not talking just about the sockets, I mean the entire map. There is no covering the objective area from afar.

My definition of long range is beyond 250m.

Bendtner...

Being SHOT while hacking is always stupid, it makes no difference. That isn't solely a sniper problem.

The problems of objective spawning were brought up a long time ago! (But that horse died, along with debate to address numerous other broken aspects of this game....)

I can't believe how many problems people want to pin on snipers right now.


Has anyone even really tried "LONG-RANGE" sniping on the new maps? Not talking just about the sockets, I mean the entire map. There is no covering the objective area from afar.

My definition of long range is beyond 250m.

Nevermind, there is no interest in logic or game balance here. People didn't like something, and now it's gone. End of story.
Game Balance be damned.
I haven't been a dedicated sniper for months anyway, because CCP simply kept breaking it more and more.