Mobile and objective spawning fundamentally alters game play for the worse by eliminating strategic play.

The current hue and cry over the number of uplinks on the field means people recognize this issue. What many fail to realize is that the number is immaterial. Even one mobile spawn point completely disrupts the game. CCP has also recognized the game breaking nature of objective spawning in its removal from Domination mode.

Teleportation creates an unbreakable supply line to an objective which requires overwhelming force to dislodge. Normal attrition isn't effective as troops are constantly replaced. This in turn cheapens the value of a clone. The average player will be more reckless and opt to bleed out sooner because they can easily and quickly get back in the fight.

It replaces the vehicle transport function. There is no incentive to drive or fly when you can teleport. Once the initial deployment is made vehicular transport is superfluous. Adding a pilot incentive won't help without giving passengers a reason to ride.

It turns the CRU into a second rate spawn point that is frequently left in enemy hands in order to camp for easy kills. A CRU should be a critical asset, not a camping destination.

Drop Uplinks and objective spawning should be removed and CRUs should actually be loaded with a specific number of clones. The current CRU is just another rendering of the drop uplink. Despite the name it doesn't contain any clones, it simply acts as a spawn beacon just like the DU. This makes the ticket nature of clone count obvious which breaks immersion and compromises strategy.

Teams should covet spare clones and fight over CRUs just as hard as over objectives. In the future commanders should consider just where to place them on the battlefield.

i dont see objective spawning as a massive issue...

most ppl will normally spawn on the uplinks surounding the objective and only the objective if nothing else is left to spawn in on....

but im pretty sure that players hate being forced to run every where...


and the go buy lav phrase is pointless because lavs cost isk...

isk that could be used to buy much better things..like a gun..

i dont see objective spawning as a massive issue...

most ppl will normally spawn on the uplinks surounding the objective and only the objective if nothing else is left to spawn in on....

but im pretty sure that players hate being forced to run every where...


and the go buy lav phrase is pointless because lavs cost isk...

isk that could be used to buy much better things..like a gun..



crus r also useless after capturing the surrounding area and i would rather have them destroyed..

we also have the fact that currently still the team with the cru will have an easier time taking an objective...


u can go sneak around to the other side of the map and hack an objective with out worry...

having more crus would just mean it would be just one big nade spam and spawn kill fest....

the cru right now as it is is really just an annoyance factor as far as im concerned...


if some players want to camp an enemy cru and watch ll of the objectives turn red then that provides enough reason on why to destroy them...

the way it is currently its hack the cru first..then hack the objective...if u go for the objective first...then while your trying to hack a random player can spawn on the objective and get a free easy kill...

its one reason for being a problem...

another is that if the enemy team owns the cru and the cru and they clustered up there..they can pretty much hold it for the entire match...

the objective spawning it self isnt really much of a problem...


since by the time u go to spawn onto an objective already being hacked u wont be able to spawn intime..

since most hacks take less than 10 secs..

and most spawns take around 10 secs..

I agree with objective spawn being removed, but DUs and CRUs need to stay. That would make for more interesting matches. All game modes would be benefited.

That being said DUs need a limit of 3 maybe 5 per side (look at how many mercs are per battle), and maybe just 1 or 2 CRUs like right now.
And these two need some sort of request line, to prevent 10 or so players spawn at the same time, in resume put some sort of delay between player 1 and 2, just in these types of spawn.
In addition DUs shouldnGÇÖt be able to be "assembled" near objectives, maybe 50 or more meters.

Mobile and objective spawning fundamentally alters game play for the worse by eliminating strategic play.

The current hue and cry over the number of uplinks on the field means people recognize this issue. What many fail to realize is that the number is immaterial. Even one mobile spawn point completely disrupts the game. CCP has also recognized the game breaking nature of objective spawning in its removal from Domination mode.

Teleportation creates an unbreakable supply line to an objective which requires overwhelming force to dislodge. Normal attrition isn't effective as troops are constantly replaced. This in turn cheapens the value of a clone. The average player will be more reckless and opt to bleed out sooner because they can easily and quickly get back in the fight.

It replaces the vehicle transport function. There is no incentive to drive or fly when you can teleport. Once the initial deployment is made vehicular transport is superfluous. Adding a pilot incentive won't help without giving passengers a reason to ride.

It turns the CRU into a second rate spawn point that is frequently left in enemy hands in order to camp for easy kills. A CRU should be a critical asset, not a camping destination.

Drop Uplinks and objective spawning should be removed and CRUs should actually be loaded with a specific number of clones. The current CRU is just another rendering of the drop uplink. Despite the name it doesn't contain any clones, it simply acts as a spawn beacon just like the DU. This makes the ticket nature of clone count obvious which breaks immersion and compromises strategy.

Teams should covet spare clones and fight over CRUs just as hard as over objectives. In the future commanders should consider just where to place them on the battlefield.

3. Make all classes viable. Scouts need to be viable. Heavies need to be viable. Assaults need to be viable. This way you get less people using Logistics suits, and thus less people will be carrying Uplinks (and other equipment) throughout a match, and the ones that do (Logis) will be extremely valuable to still have in the match.

lol... uplinks and objective spawns are OP now. next target the MCC is OP because you can't hurt it.

Being able to build and control your supply lines IS extremely critical in battle.
That's precisely why you see heavy use of uplinks in PC.

People recognize that importance and come to the forums to complain that they don't like the power of uplinks to shape a battle. They generously "offer" heavy nerfs on uplinks as a solution rather than using existing counters such as flux grenades or requesting additional counter play.

The thing is even a handful of uplinks can have the same effect. Yes fifteen are an impressive display, but only marginally more useful than five. The true utility depends upon he user. The better the team the more it multiplies their power.

The conclusion is that complaints of "uplink spam" are really complaints of mobile spawning in general. They don't want it, or at least they don't want the other team to have it which amounts to the same thing.

forget about upgrading scouts thats not going to happen class changes now are just going to muddy the water.

when a player using the DU is killed his DU explodes ,

after 4 uses the DU explodes .

limit to one DU per fit .

make them fragile to so if four are together and a mass driver round goes off next to them . thats it they explode

problem solved

We know supply lines are important to the battle, don't start your righteous crusade of "they want something changed, therefore they must all be whiny idiots" sit down and listen, drop uplinks shouldn't be so viable as to use them over

a vehicle mcru
a cru
A dropship from neareast spawn point

like the ar it has no drawbacks, its not meant for frontline purposes, its an off grid incursion point to allow a squad a access point without the need of a dropship. But when you can mm use them everywhere and anywhere then there is a problem, its hurting the vehicle use in this game.

Why use a dropship for anything more than a makeshift gunship? No one bothers getting a lift, because its quicker and easier to just spawn in at an adv uplink with a short spawn time. If you want MANAGE and MAINTAIN supply lines you should rely on more than a teleporter.

The uplink is the equivelent to a Sub-Orbital Jump just without the mess, not a barracks!!

I never called them whiny, and I think we are in basic agreement on the issue.

One of my points is that MCRUs, CRUs, and dropships are all rendered obsolete with uplink teleportation.

In it's inception Star Trek writers invented the transporter because the shuttle craft wasn't available for filming. The problem was that the transporter was simply too powerful and would serve as the answer to far too many plot lines. They then had to creatively break it and nerf it to make more stories. I think that's where we are at in DUST.

forget about upgrading scouts thats not going to happen class changes now are just going to muddy the water.

when a player using the DU is killed his DU explodes ,

after 4 uses the DU explodes .

limit to one DU per fit .

make them fragile to so if four are together and a mass driver round goes off next to them . thats it they explode

problem solved

Removing or crippling drop uplinks? Are you out of your minds? It took like a year and a half to get people actually using those damn things. Its not out of control, its working as intended. I have seen the horror of the E3 spawn camping with tanks. That marked me for life to use drop uplinks and prevent redline situations and give me a edge over the enemy.
And changing the spawn timers on advanced-proto uplinks sounds stupid as hell. They allready take very high CPU+PG to fit on a dropsuit. And you forget that the game would slow down drastically if we would remove drop uplinks from the game in combination with removed objective spawns. Seriously do you keep want to walk to the objective after each death? Well i prefer to spend my playtime shoting the enemy, not walking to the objective for 10 minutes.

So let us together propose how uplinks should be used, then how positives and negatives on how the uplinks can be shaped to fit this role!!

I personally think an uplink is about a form of tactical insertion, and under the grid method, its something you give to a scout to drop in enemy terriroty, when a dropship cant make it there, or would make to much noise!! What do you think an uplink should be?

I'm not prepared to slog half way through the map just to get shot and repeat again. Uplinks are the only thing making the action tense and interesting. Without direct spawning it will be a constant search for the enemy with little actually happening.
At best all you'd get is:
capture objective
wait for enemy to mass numbers
they fail as you hold the ground
and then a longer wait as they regroup and try another avenue which will also likely fail.

Even DS's only hold 1/3 of the team and you'll hold the depots so you'll just shoot them out the sky the moment they're in view. They'll loose too many on entry

Some of the most epic battles I've ever been in was because the enemy had uplinks so the pressure was constant and ever changing.

You would have to place a short time limit on the uplinks to give them this property without letting them be used the way they are now. If you try to limit them by spawns they will just be tossed in greater numbers.

The timer would probably have to be on the order of 20-30 seconds, enough for someone to toss it and have the insertion team make the jump. Of course you'd have to be able to use the link without having died or it would be next to impossible to get your insertion team together. If you don't do that uplinks are useless for tactical insertion.

The reason they are used as regular supply lines is that people die randomly.

Yes you would need static jump points, also you could add the interial dampner animation (or revived animation, same thing) to discourage use on the front line, different variations which sacrifice, number active to allow for a greater number of jumps would then be viable for behind the front line instant supply but the lack of active ones creates a bottleneck. I mean a proto with 75 jumps and short spawn time is a little ridiculous, don't you think!!

This would be combated by the addition for extra cru's the new maps are a very good example of how the cru's become a forward drop point, how you need cru's both next and around an objective, how the cru's become more of an assest then just a few extra wp for hacking it!!

Yeah right CRU's... Sure im going to spawn on something thats beeing camped the whole day long and can be destroyed by a tank. No thanks i prefer my drop uplinks in tactical positions. And im not throwing away easy 1000WP on a domination match. Seriously people are only mad cause they didnt invested into proto uplinks which is in my opinion their fault not mine. Im not trading my drop uplinks for CRU's cause i can spawn on objective based game modes in 5 secs instead of 10 and on ambush its allways 3 secs regardless what uplink i use.

Removing objective spawning: Sure. (Just don't remove ground base)
Removing Drop Uplinks: No, it definitely needs to have heavy limitations but probably a lower profile as well, to prevent spam but make it worth the haul to carry one and place strategically.

I understand Skihids that you of all people respect transportation and what not but that would only work if you removed all the turret installations too. Then we'd have to add them back but as purchasable and useable items. It's all very far down the line work. If we removed all of it, as you propose, DS would become one way taxis heavily, and be shot out of the sky by people jumping to the nearest turrets to counter the inevitable.

It's great but I'd say return to this after 1.5 when vehicle stuff gets reworked. I understand the need to bring supply lines to this game, after all once you have an objective, all you must do is spawn there rather than put effort into securing routes and what not. But wait until we see how vehicles turn out. If the DS gets worse, or LAVs too, then I'd turn this idea straight down since there would be no viable way to get to objectives.

It appears that CCP will be eliminating deployed equipment upon a suit change, so let's just eliminate uplinks along with objective spawning.

Return the SP I sunk into uplinks and I'll spend it on dropships to transport.

Have you got a source for this?

As long as there are uplinks there won't be any vehicular transport.

Teleportation trumps taking a car or bus.

If people want drop ships to be transports you need to eliminate uplinks.

implying that you to kill yourself every time you want to get somewhere fast. cut DUs and all you will see are more redline games

the OP says he wants DUs removed... but in the thread he's defending them... such a troll!

the OP says he wants DUs removed... but in the thread he's defending them... such a troll!

What? This is a really bad idea...I can think of 10 different reasons:
1. Uplinks provide WP for LOGIs and anyone else willing to carry them
2. Knowing where the enemy is going to spawn is OP
3. Variable spawn times is often a deciding factor in a match
4. Support your squad, drop an uplink
5. Support your team, drop an uplink
6. CRUS can be destroyed, leaving a team with the MCC and nothing else to spawn in
7. Only the enemy hates my Uplinks
8. Tactical spawning
9. I enjoy having the option to return to a link I place to support the team when/if I die to attack again, and again
10. Uplinks are easily destroyed, if you don't like it you can kill them with a nade or your primary weapon

i doubt that players will kill them selves on purpose and lose a full proto suit....

just to spawn in on an objective that is already being hacked....

uplink zerging is pretty much the only thing that makes objectives hard to take...

majority of the time a player can sneak up to an objective hack the cru then take an objective while solo....


the over whelming force is essentialy caused by mass amounts of players spawning in on uplinks and the cru while the team defending the objective can be over whelmed quickly...if they dont set any ambush points/ killzones..


objective spawning cant realy be camped since u will spawn in random places at an objective..

this gives any1 spawning at an objective the ability to try to defend or run away and hack some other objective..


but with seeing how zerg tactics work so great on here objective spawning should stay...


most teams will rush for the center point then move ahead...

and if you r having trouble trying to take a certain objective then that mean that the other enemy objective dont have as many players spawning/ defending them which will allow your team to sneak around and hack those objectives and then completely swarm that one single objective...

all this idea would seem to do is create more redline matches...

and redline matches r the most annoying matches...

by the fact that there is nothing to really shoot at while the other team is redlined...

or if you r being redlined..then that means u pretty much have no chance at turning the battles around...

and so majority of your team when in that position will start sniping....

dropships r killed so easily its not funny..

and since turrets r now aggressive thats even much less reason to bring out a derpship..

at anytime other than the start of the match...

the cru can be destroyed but seeing how rendering distance is horrible on tanks now u will have to get in close just to see that large cru with a rail turret......

this really only makes skirmishes more annoying. since if we couldnt spawn on any of the objectives.

we would have to spawn from the redzone over and over again....

and run that same long distance to the first objective...

1.5 will bring WP's for dropship transport and should make the dropship capable of making the trip without being destroyed.

If you keep objective and DU spawning nobody will wait at the taxi stand for the dropship ride.

With those gone dropship pilots can finally act as the troop transports that every infantry player claims is their main mission when they complained about the dropship being used as an attack ship.

It would be rather hypocritical of the player base to be so adamant about dropships being for transport and then turn around and demand spawn mechanisms that obviate the need for that transport.

People die quite frequently so they don't have to suicide. The vast majority of travel is by DU or objective spawning in Skirmish.

The people have spoken and this is what they want.

sounds like pubmatchproblems to me.

democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on what's for dinner
~Darth Vador

If we get dropship proxy chat I can inform everyone where we are going and what objective we are attacking.

There are so many good things that can come from eliminating objective spawns and uplinks.

Oh yeah now i get it. You want to get rid off uplinks so you can have all the fancy WP for spawns on your derpship when 1.5 comes out. How about this?

GTFO scrub.

I agree with you all about the objective spawning.

In regards to drop uplinks, I think they are a vital part of the game. not to mention that they are extremely easy to destroy.

I really don't need CRU's.. their just another hack site for most or a target for a bored swarm/ forge gunner.

Mobile and objective spawning fundamentally alters game play for the worse by eliminating strategic play.
...

Teleportation creates an unbreakable supply line to an objective which requires overwhelming force to dislodge. Normal attrition isn't effective as troops are constantly replaced. This in turn cheapens the value of a clone. The average player will be more reckless and opt to bleed out sooner because they can easily and quickly get back in the fight.

It replaces the vehicle transport function. There is no incentive to drive or fly when you can teleport. Once the initial deployment is made vehicular transport is superfluous. Adding a pilot incentive won't help without giving passengers a reason to ride.

It turns the CRU into a second rate spawn point that is frequently left in enemy hands in order to camp for easy kills. A CRU should be a critical asset, not a camping destination.

Drop Uplinks and objective spawning should be removed and CRUs should actually be loaded with a specific number of clones. The current CRU is just another rendering of the drop uplink. Despite the name it doesn't contain any clones, it simply acts as a spawn beacon just like the DU. This makes the ticket nature of clone count obvious which breaks immersion and compromises strategy.

Teams should covet spare clones and fight over CRUs just as hard as over objectives. In the future commanders should consider just where to place them on the battlefield.

Oh yeah now i get it. You want to get rid off uplinks so you can have all the fancy WP for spawns on your derpship when 1.5 comes out. How about this?

GTFO scrub.

Mobile and objective spawning fundamentally alters game play for the worse by eliminating strategic play.

The current hue and cry over the number of uplinks on the field means people recognize this issue. What many fail to realize is that the number is immaterial. Even one mobile spawn point completely disrupts the game. CCP has also recognized the game breaking nature of objective spawning in its removal from Domination mode.

Teleportation creates an unbreakable supply line to an objective which requires overwhelming force to dislodge.

Normal attrition isn't effective as troops are constantly replaced. This in turn cheapens the value of a clone. The average player will be more reckless and opt to bleed out sooner because they can easily and quickly get back in the fight.

It replaces the vehicle transport function. There is no incentive to drive or fly when you can teleport. Once the initial deployment is made vehicular transport is superfluous. Adding a pilot incentive won't help without giving passengers a reason to ride.

It turns the CRU into a second rate spawn point that is frequently left in enemy hands in order to camp for easy kills. A CRU should be a critical asset, not a camping destination.

Drop Uplinks and objective spawning should be removed and CRUs should actually be loaded with a specific number of clones. The current CRU is just another rendering of the drop uplink. Despite the name it doesn't contain any clones, it simply acts as a spawn beacon just like the DU. This makes the ticket nature of clone count obvious which breaks immersion and compromises strategy.

Teams should covet spare clones and fight over CRUs just as hard as over objectives. In the future commanders should consider just where to place them on the battlefield.

I would characterize this more as fifteen sheep and one wolf voting that everyone is supposed to eat grass and the shepherd (CCP) enforcing that decision.

I keep hearing the assertion that removing spawn points and spawn point types, be they Uplinks, Objectives, or CRUs (depending on thread) would make the game "more tactical". What I have not been hearing in any of these several threads is a detailed description of how.

Bendtner92, Skihids, thank you both for the thoughtful and thought provoking replies. I will be chewing over what you've presented and responding wtih some ideas, I'd like to get input on these concepts once I've fleshed them out enough to post.

Cheers, and +1 to you both,
Cross