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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3997
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Posted - 2013.09.13 23:41:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Also, there are two advantages to mouse aim:... 2. Precision aim. This is balanced by the sixaxis allowing more precise movement, so if the first point is addressed, things SHOULD be close enough to balanced and people can stop complaining. Are you a m/kb user in this particular game? There's a huge bit of input lag, which makes tracking anything that's moving ridiculously difficult. It's precise, but about a half second late, which doesn't help too much. In this game, there are major issues with mouse control, and comparatively minor issues with sixaxis control. Both options need improving, mouse moreso, but that point was based on the technical capabilities of a mouse, NOT on their current state in the game.
Selinate deux wrote:Why is this even being discussed.
Mouses are, at a fundamental level, much easier to use in an FPS than analog sticks. This has been true ever since the first FPSs have come out on the consoles. I still don't get why anyone thought it was a good idea to put an FPS on a console in the first place ever.
So anyone using a mouse needs to stop crying about their controls and how much they think they suck. They need to be balanced, and in order to balance it either the mouse users need to be severely nerfed or controllers need a huge buff. I'm sorry, but no. As mentioned in my post, there are 2 key advantages to mouse aim, and one CAN be entirely circumvented, while the other is balanced by the advantage to movement on a sixaxis controller. There are issues on several levels with the controls for the game not being competently implemented, but those AREN'T the same thing as the control schemes themselves being significantly unbalanced. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
878
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Posted - 2013.09.13 23:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
your video is great proof of kb/m superiority, however, you will never get the AA QQers to admit this because then they have to admit they are wrong...
remember this community is half full of vets who are just bad at this game, which is embarrassing for them, because with the help of previously bad mechanics they were beating their chest as to how good they are.
not to mention they were using their proto gear as a crutch to further inflate their egos that they had skill...
the truly good players don't really whine because they are good regardless of what CCP has done.
this is why we haven't seen people like cubs make an AA is OP thread
and why other good players like pyrex has back tracked once he got used to it saying AA is fine...
seriously AA QQERS, the vast majority of the community translates your tears into proof youre just bad at dust
cry back to this post if you want QQers, it will bring a smile to my face and give further proof of your lack of skill. |
DootDoot
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2013.09.14 00:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:your video is great proof of kb/m superiority, however, you will never get the AA QQers to admit this because then they have to admit they are wrong...
remember this community is half full of vets who are just bad at this game, which is embarrassing for them, because with the help of previously bad mechanics they were beating their chest as to how good they are.
not to mention they were using their proto gear as a crutch to further inflate their egos that they had skill...
the truly good players don't really whine because they are good regardless of what CCP has done.
this is why we haven't seen people like cubs make an AA is OP thread
and why other good players like pyrex has back tracked once he got used to it saying AA is fine...
seriously AA QQERS, the vast majority of the community translates your tears into proof youre just bad at dust
cry back to this post if you want QQers, it will bring a smile to my face and give further proof of your lack of skill.
Keep spinning your propaganda DUST university... Comparing Cub's and Pyrex in the same breathe... is funny...
The only crutch that exists in this game is a computer generated aiming and tracking system that requires minimal input to get results from.
You just call yourself out to the people who know better in DUST there was no superiority... And the fact that you need something other then the equipment and guns in this game to stand a chance... show's us who you are.
Dust University continuously bashing their chests telling us who had and has skilll... like dafuq? |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
883
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Posted - 2013.09.14 01:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:your video is great proof of kb/m superiority, however, you will never get the AA QQers to admit this because then they have to admit they are wrong...
remember this community is half full of vets who are just bad at this game, which is embarrassing for them, because with the help of previously bad mechanics they were beating their chest as to how good they are.
not to mention they were using their proto gear as a crutch to further inflate their egos that they had skill...
the truly good players don't really whine because they are good regardless of what CCP has done.
this is why we haven't seen people like cubs make an AA is OP thread
and why other good players like pyrex has back tracked once he got used to it saying AA is fine...
seriously AA QQERS, the vast majority of the community translates your tears into proof youre just bad at dust
cry back to this post if you want QQers, it will bring a smile to my face and give further proof of your lack of skill. Keep spinning your propaganda DUST university... Comparing Cub's and Pyrex in the same breathe... is funny... The only crutch that exists in this game is a computer generated aiming and tracking system that requires minimal input to get results from. You just call yourself out to the people who know better in DUST there was no superiority... And the fact that you need something other then the equipment and guns in this game to stand a chance... show's us who you are. Dust University continuously bashing their chests telling us who had and has skilll... like dafuq?
lol |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
398
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Posted - 2013.09.14 02:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Nice troll... that is not a mouse. That is the DS3 with the aim-assist. How stupid you think we are ?
Actually, it doesn't matter what controls you use. The controls are unresponsive. |
medomai grey
WarRavens League of Infamy
144
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Posted - 2013.09.14 02:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Nice troll... that is not a mouse. That is the DS3 with the aim-assist. How stupid you think we are ?
2 things that prove he was using M/KB:
- There are moments when he makes instant 90 degree turns.
- Right before he hacks the objective, the game tells him to press a key on keyboard.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
616
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Posted - 2013.09.14 04:31:00 -
[67] - Quote
You know, the problem with this community is that is made up by so many eve players. That's good from a certain point of view and bad from another one. The bad point is that many ( many = not everyone ) Eve players never played an fps competitively (some people i know never played an fps at all, but still doing great simply using a kb/m) and at the same time they want to be good in eve universe. You kb/m users are matching ds3 scores (most of the times) simply because of that. I have a friend, hardcore PC FPS gamer, i let him try Dust and guess what? In the Academy he never died, and the first match out of the Academy in 1.3 was a wonderful 18-3 in starter fit. Starter fit. He only died because he got roadkilled (he didn't rage, strangely), because he shoot at a Large Railgun Installation, and a random Forge hit. He said that controls were unresponsive and that hip firing and ads were "strange". But still he did 18-3 in a starter fit. Yes, he's pretty good at Fps, but there's really no way you buff a device like that (compared to the other one). I had a terrible headache just looking at how he was playing with my FragFx set in mouse mode sensitivity 80 (if I remember well) , so damn fast, so damn precise.
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621311251521 3316
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.09.14 06:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I use a mouse and am pretty damn sure he is using one too.
All you guys making claims about what a mouse user can or can't do simply haven't played any PC games with good players. Step into a Counter-Strike 1.6 match with me and my former clanmates and you'll see why me going 40-0 against DS3 users is no big feat .
conclusion :ccp plz remove DS3 AA and improve mouse and keyboard so i can go 40-0 against DS3 users with ease. |
KA24DERT
Pure Innocence. EoN.
102
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Posted - 2013.09.14 06:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:You know, the problem with this community is that is made up by so many eve players. That's good from a certain point of view and bad from another one. The bad point is that many ( many = not everyone ) Eve players never played an fps competitively (some people i know never played an fps at all, but still doing great simply using a kb/m) and at the same time they want to be good in eve universe. You kb/m users are matching ds3 scores (most of the times) simply because of that. I have a friend, hardcore PC FPS gamer, i let him try Dust and guess what? In the Academy he never died, and the first match out of the Academy in 1.3 was a wonderful 18-3 in starter fit. Starter fit. He only died because he got roadkilled (he didn't rage, strangely), because he shoot at a Large Railgun Installation, and a random Forge hit. He said that controls were unresponsive and that hip firing and ads were "strange". But still he did 18-3 in a starter fit. Yes, he's pretty good at Fps, but there's really no way you buff a device like that (compared to the other one). I had a terrible headache just looking at how he was playing with my FragFx set in mouse mode sensitivity 80 (if I remember well) , so damn fast, so damn precise.
So you asked your friend who's good at FPS games to come over and play an FPS, and he was good at it.
Awesome.
You guys keep thinking KB/M is some sort of god device, and while I think it has an edge, it isn't a magic bullet. I stomp plenty of scrubs in PC FPS games, and they have the "invincible" KB/M just like me.
I have wasted enough of my life playing shooters, and the fact is that Scrubs are Scrubs, Good Players are Good Players, and a mouse isn't going to make a Scrub a Good Player. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
493
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
You could not go back to enjoying the game w/o writing us your essay at all?
1. KBM on console is outrageous. Thanks CCP for trying to appeal to a 'wider FPS audience' - you are doing awesome with player numbers.
2. Thanks for the aimbot. With it the majority of competitive players with DS3 (which are the core of your community) felt like the game was highjacked. Without it the noobs are being turned away because they realize they are cannon fodder to ppl with SP in the game (let's face it SP count parallels with real skill - cuz you know spending time on the game gives you both kinds of skills).
I lol at ppl who think that aimbot is an answer and a balancer to KBM.
3. Finally great to have balanced progression. I love running in my 300 hp scout that I can't fit a secondary weapon on into a 950 hp assault. It don't even matter if they use KBM, DS3, or a combination of MOVE and their grandmother's dentures for input - they will own you like a used Chuck Norris movie. |
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
493
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 06:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:I use a mouse and am pretty damn sure he is using one too.
All you guys making claims about what a mouse user can or can't do simply haven't played any PC games with good players. Step into a Counter-Strike 1.6 match with me and my former clanmates and you'll see why me going 40-0 against DS3 users is no big feat.
I believe that guy. I saw some of his videos in pre - 1.4 aimbot. He clearly plays with a mouse and clearly shows that KBM>>DS3 at least in Dust. Having said that, aimbot is not the answer.
CCP should make it so that you can disable matchmaking against ppl who use aimbot or KBM for input. Like certain matches would not allow KBM input or DS3 input. And of course the aimbot noobs should have their own 'competitions'. |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers EoN.
649
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Posted - 2013.09.14 14:45:00 -
[72] - Quote
So are Dust University trolls, totally ******* awful at first person shooters, or some combination of the two?
I want to just ignore everything they say, but I'm afraid that without a counter point that some pad players will actually believe their bullshit. |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
183
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Posted - 2013.09.14 14:57:00 -
[73] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:[ Also, there are two advantages to mouse aim:... 2. Precision aim. This is balanced by the sixaxis allowing more precise movement, so if the first point is addressed, things SHOULD be close enough to balanced and people can stop complaining. Are you a m/kb user in this particular game? There's a huge bit of input lag, which makes tracking anything that's moving ridiculously difficult. It's precise, but about a half second late, which doesn't help too much.
Actually, this just reminded me of something. Are you absolutely positive that it's not your TV that's lagging? When I switched to the current TV I am using, I noticed an incredible input lag, which sounds exactly like what you are describing (it was accurate, but always delayed by about half a second). When I found out how to switch the TV to game mode (fortunately it had one), the input lag was gone.
There is still some input lag, but it's absolutely minimal and frankly I don't think that it can get any better with 30 FPS and vsync.
Apparently this is a very common problem, especially with modern smart TVs, and it might explain to some extend why my experience seems to be so different to many others here. |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 16:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I will make a comparison of turning speeds later tonight, I'm curious myself now.
Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBlIlDGwtz4
This is uncut, so you get some boring pieces as well.
First I show stick rotation at full sensitivity, then mouse rotation at my sensitivity (30), then just for kicks at full sensitivity...
I think the problem is not so much that the mouse is faster (as you see when I play, I rarely make full use of it), but that the DS3 is incredibly slow compared to other games.
Afterwards I do a bit of circle strafing around a fix spot on the wall, first with the DS3, then with the mouse. I do this badly, but this little exercise is harder than it looks. :)
Finally just for fun I play the rest of the game with the mouse, so you get to see some "uncut" gameplay and me being incredibly stupid/incompetent at various times... Also I was playing without sound, because the only thing I could quickly think of to put my phone against was the headphones... A lot of the picture got cut off as well, sorry about that.
Anyway, if you still don't want to believe that I'm actually playing with the mouse, I don't know how to help you. :) |
Orion Vahid
DUST University Ivy League
188
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 23:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Why is this even being discussed.
Mouses are, at a fundamental level, much easier to use in an FPS than analog sticks. This has been true ever since the first FPSs have come out on the consoles. I still don't get why anyone thought it was a good idea to put an FPS on a console in the first place ever.
So anyone using a mouse needs to stop crying about their controls and how much they think they suck. They need to be balanced, and in order to balance it either the mouse users need to be severely nerfed or controllers need a huge buff. Controllers have their aimbot. Stop whining please. |
Medical Crash
Pro Hic Immortalis
146
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 23:32:00 -
[76] - Quote
Orion Vahid wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Why is this even being discussed.
Mouses are, at a fundamental level, much easier to use in an FPS than analog sticks. This has been true ever since the first FPSs have come out on the consoles. I still don't get why anyone thought it was a good idea to put an FPS on a console in the first place ever.
So anyone using a mouse needs to stop crying about their controls and how much they think they suck. They need to be balanced, and in order to balance it either the mouse users need to be severely nerfed or controllers need a huge buff. Controllers have their aimbot. Stop whining please. But you can turn faster! Depends on the mouses dpi right? Also, AA was silently nerfed recently in a hotfix. It's much worse now.
DS3 users can not bypass the turn limits as far as I know. That is a HUGE advantage for mouse users. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1599
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 13:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
Also he exectures a number of jump turns that begin before jumping. It is simply pretty difficult to hit x while you are horizontally turning with the DS3. |
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