Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.

The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.

The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

If CCP nerfs the AR...
1 question...
How?

I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons...

Simple:
High ROF weapons that are hand-held are horrible when it comes to accuracy over any sort of distance; the AR and SMG simply need to have much greater dispersion in their weapon spread. That, or remove/replace the kick reduction bonus you get from leveling into them.

Dispersion and recoil need a massive increase on these weapons. at lvl 4, the GEK-38 does not start to kick until over halfway through the clip. HALFWAY and even then its a slight lift. Most dudes are dead before you even get to that half of the clip. Until then its laser like precision, even from the hip.

The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons.

1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle.
2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is.
3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges.
4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation.
5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase.
6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete.
7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.

The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons.

1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle.
2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is.
3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges.
4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation.
5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase.
6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete.
7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.

you guys do realize that this is an fps?

8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field.

And this is why the thing needs it's name changed...

Nobody wants to nerf the AR to hell and back. Calm your kittens. It needs to be balanced to be in line with EVERY OTHER WEAPON so there isn't a "best choice" merely a "preferred choice."

The joke of AR514 was funny before, but now it just isn't. They dominate the battlefield in almost every single situation. Rarely is any other weapon better than the full auto AR in any situation we have right now.

The fact that you have scouts and heavies giving up their shotguns and HMGs because ARs do their jobs better is a clear sign there is something very wrong.

Judging by the amount of likes you have i'm going to say you have been around more than long enough to know that plenty of people want the AR nerfed to hell and back. Most don't give good (intelligent) reasons or numbers, but the cry has been going out as long as I've been here (2 months roughly, not long I know). I personally feel the AR wasn't OP pre 1.4, but combine with AA it is to much. My feelings are I would rather have no AA and at most slight (slight slight SLIGHT) nerfs to the AR as opposed to heavy nerfs and keeping AA.

But that's just me. Everything I've said is merely opinion, not fact.

Things will be what things will be I guess.

I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback.

Well that makes you a scrub

Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.

IWS just called me a scrub. Its a day for the history books.

Do you even play the same game we do? Tell me, how am I supposed to shoot from behind cover when I'm getting mowed down before I can even react? How am I supposed to win an engagement if that AR can kill before I can fire a 3rd or 4th round? God forbid I try to throw a flux, I'll be dead before it's done cooking.

Before you tell me be more mindful of my surroundings, I run a scanner. I'm the all seeing eye of God on the battlefield. The only people I'm not seeing are scouts, and honestly, theres only a few scouts that are extremely dangerous.

Tank my suit better? Sweet, I live a quarter second longer. Still getting mowed down before I fire a 5th round.

Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.

ARs don't have to shoot around corners, they seem to shoot THROUGH them enough to be noticeable. Furthermore, MDs aren't making a comeback, they're dying back in droves. Unless you're on one of the other servers like Oceania, the US servers are naught but ARs, Snipers, and the occasional Laser Rifle. Even a great deal of the heavies are using the AR because they feel it is equally effective as the HMG, but costs less to fit.

Also, a scrub? Really? You're a bloody CPM member, act it! You don't see senators fling slurs at their constituents, do you?

1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle.
2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is.
3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges.
4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation.
5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase.
6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete.
7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.

1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle.
2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is.
3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges.
4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation.
5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase.
6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete.
7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.

Sounds about right. I know I'm speccing further into AR merely because I have trouble competing with any other weapon efficiently. Nobody in their right mind can say that ARs are not ridiculous right now.

Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.

The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

Senators are politicians.

CPM are players.

As an AR user, I have to agree. They are A LITTLE overpowered.

Easy solution.
Breach variant: High damage, slow ROF, short-ish effective range. It's fine, no need to touch.
Tac variant: High damage, low ammo capacity, semi-auto, higher effective range. (but still lower range than laser) It's fine.
Burst variant: This weapon could use a little love. I'd say give first 3shot burst more accuracy. Subsequent bursts what it currently has. HOWEVER, even if left as it is, it's ok.
Regular variant (GEK38/Duvolle/etc): This is the main culprit of what ppl are complaining about. Easy solution. Lower its ROF. Currently its 750, drop it down to around 650.

This fixes many things.
A. It makes the Breach/Burst variants more viable options to the regular AR. (since by nerfing it, you are inherently buffing the other versions)
B. This makes all the other CQC weapons viable options. By lowering ROF to 650, you are raising the TTK. This makes shotty, SMG, HMG, etc all MUCH more effective against AR in CQC situations. Still balanced, because the CQC weapons lose potency at range pretty quickly.
C. This fixes the "DUST is turning to a COD shooter" argument since TTK is raised.

This would make the AR the "jack of all trades" weapon it should be, while not quite the master of all.

PS.
If you think that dropping the ROF to 650 is overkill. You may be right. I'm always up for debate. After a little more thought, I'd say drop the ROF to 675. (an even 10% change) This would be a good starting point. CCP can always fine-tune from there.

Actually, the TAR has better range than both the Laser weapons. In fact, the Regular does too.

Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.

Not so, someone just did a chart demonstrating how the Laser does the most damage at longer range.
I believe it was Aeon Amandi. The Tac is better up until around the 70-80m range (if I remember correctly) but the laser outclasses it beyond that.

Dispersion and recoil need a massive increase on these weapons. at lvl 4, the GEK-38 does not start to kick until over halfway through the clip. HALFWAY and even then its a slight lift. Most dudes are dead before you even get to that half of the clip. Until then its laser like precision, even from the hip.

Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.

If Dust were an FPS, a Shotgun would beat an Assault Rifle at 3 meters.


Alongside the corpses of those who would use them.


If you don't change the AR, many will change games.

CPM are players with the responsibility to represent the rest of us at the personal level with CCP themselves. You have far too high of a position to casually snub players over your personal experience, especially without numbers or testing behind your claims. YOU ARE A POLITICIAN.

8) GTA 5 is released n no1 gives a fuk anymore

Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.

The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

Am I the only person that didn't like GTA 4, and have no plans to ever play 5???

Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.

Due to this post I now feel like the only guy in the game not using the AR... I only use the Scrambler Rifle and that's when I'm playing my Logi alt...

100%.


One of the many things Dust needs to be successful is real variation in weapons, balance, and niches. This allows for actual specialization and tactics, rather than regret of spending SP on anything other than AR.


IF AR continues to dominate as it does, And all of the other weapons in this game are just meaningless fluff, then that whole "Deep customization" selling point is a hoax. Which at this point, is one of the few selling points dust claims to have.

At that distance I thought I was going to get away.

There are already ways to counter the AR. No nerf necessary.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109920&find=unread

+1 for your research, analysis and presentation, Mr. Hurin.

There is fatal flaw, however in your approach and conclusion.
DPS on paper is substantially different from DPS in game.
Accuracy must be considered in any sound analysis.

DPS disparity (actual vs theoretical) is oft observed in CQC, where the AR is demonstrably dominant.
100% accuracy with a Shotgun is seldom -- if ever -- observed. The same goes for the HMG.

On paper, the SG and HMG should out-DPS the AR.
In game, however, the opposite is observed.

I hope this makes sense; let me know if I can clarify.

- Shotty GoBang

I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback.

GoBang probably abused the difficulty to aim the AR properly to dominate those who tried using it with cheap tactics and he can't quite do it anymore. QQ MORE?

... Get over it. Adapt. Or go somewhere else.

Sounds about right. I know I'm speccing further into AR merely because I have trouble competing with any other weapon efficiently. Nobody in their right mind can say that ARs are not ridiculous right now.

Hello. I don't believe we've met.

If by "cheap tactics" you mean sneaking into optimal shotgun range, often behind an opponent ...
Then yes, I am guilty as charged.

If by "QQ" you refer my expectation that a Shotgun should beat an AR in close quarters ...
Then yes, I am also guilty of this charge.

Not for lack of effort, but I fail to understand your point. Perhaps you can clarify?



On this point -- which is quite clear -- you need not worry.
Present imbalance held constant, I will absolutely take my leave.
I've invested 18M SP in a Shotgun Scout build. Why should I stay?

Alright, let me take it slower with you.

You are presenting it as if the AR ALWAYS wins in CQC. I say it doesn't. I have seen
the shotgun reliably win versus ARs in CQC. You are probably mistaking mid-range or mid-close range
for CQC.

As a tanker with around 15 million SP, with a majority in my vehicles, I am pretty
effective with my role. Does it mean that I should automatically win against infantry
with smaller SP counts? No, I don't think so. Sometimes you fall into situations
that are just not in your favor.

I don't use ARs much, but when I used one with my ds3, it was a pain in the ass to use
and the KB/M users would win most of the time with equal circumstances. Mass Drivers
and cheap weapons that took advantage of the weak/broken aim assist dominated
in that era.

Now that Aim Assist actually helps hit with the AR, it is now effective. The other forms of
the AR has been nerfed into oblivion. Go ahead. Try the burst assault rifle, the breach, and
the tactical and tell me if they are very useful over the generic one with all of the nerfs leveled.

That is good that you are leaving. That means one less "Nerf X because I can't abuse Y anymore to beat X" thread.

I also have an assault alt that I stopped playing for a while because the prior aim assist actually made it harder to hit people using the DS3.

Alright, let me take it slower with you.

You are presenting it as if the AR ALWAYS wins in CQC. I say it doesn't.

You are probably mistaking mid-range or mid-close range for CQC.

That is good that you are leaving.

That means one less "Nerf X because I can't abuse Y anymore to beat X" thread.

That is good that you are leaving. That means one less "Nerf X because I can't abuse Y anymore to beat X" thread.

Not at all. Aim assist threw your aim off and without it, good luck hitting anything. Source: My experience with the proliferation of Mass Drivers and Grenade users.

They better nerf the regular ARs, they just have to. It's waay to easy, there is no skill involved. Next time you die, look at the map and zoom in to watch the firefights. You'll see the ridiculous range of that shiiit. In one occasion, A Blaster tank and an AR were firing from the same spot, and I was watching at the similiraties in range. It was stupid.

You realize that is a damage fallout linked to the range, right ? People can hit you from long range, but the weapons hardly do any damage. I think what you "been" noticing is the aim-assist problems with kick and dispersion.

http://i.imgur.com/PyUmDEA.jpg
^ Courtesy of Cyrius Li-Moody

Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.

The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.

In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.

Before 1.4 practically no one was complaining about the AR, after the 1.4 update all suddenly the AR is super OP... you don't find that curious ?

The AR just needs a MINOR adjustment. Mostly to the militia/std variants. (but even the Gek and Duvolle could have their TTK raised by a couple %)

I say this, but am also worried that if CCP decides to actually go thru with a nerf, that they will OVER nerf the AR.