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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
990
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
IWS just called me a scrub. Its a day for the history books.
Do you even play the same game we do? Tell me, how am I supposed to shoot from behind cover when I'm getting mowed down before I can even react? How am I supposed to win an engagement if that AR can kill before I can fire a 3rd or 4th round? God forbid I try to throw a flux, I'll be dead before it's done cooking.
Before you tell me be more mindful of my surroundings, I run a scanner. I'm the all seeing eye of God on the battlefield. The only people I'm not seeing are scouts, and honestly, theres only a few scouts that are extremely dangerous.
Tank my suit better? Sweet, I live a quarter second longer. Still getting mowed down before I fire a 5th round. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8397
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
IWS just called me a scrub. Its a day for the history books. Do you even play the same game we do? Tell me, how am I supposed to shoot from behind cover when I'm getting mowed down before I can even react? How am I supposed to win an engagement if that AR can kill before I can fire a 3rd or 4th round? God forbid I try to throw a flux, I'll be dead before it's done cooking. Before you tell me be more mindful of my surroundings, I run a scanner. I'm the all seeing eye of God on the battlefield. The only people I'm not seeing are scouts, and honestly, theres only a few scouts that are extremely dangerous. Tank my suit better? Sweet, I live a quarter second longer. Still getting mowed down before I fire a 5th round.
Yes I play, I have to compete against people with advanced and prototype gear all the time so I had to learn how to survive with 3-4 modules per BASIC suit and basic equipment.
By the way most people talk on the forums you'd think I get murdered to hell on the field, but in reality my KDR hasn't shifted much in 1.4 and I didn't have to adapt to the game at all. My most common threat vectors are the same, the only difference these days is its no longer a marianas turkey shoot, I actually have to hunt down my prey now. |
Green Living
0uter.Heaven
843
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
Yeah, back to AFK'in for me. My 650 combined HP is melted instantly by Militia AR's. Really starting to feel like a twitch cod shooter. |
Orion Vahid
DUST University Ivy League
178
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
OR maybe just make the aim assist less effective on ARs? |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
904
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:24:00 -
[35] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback. Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
ARs don't have to shoot around corners, they seem to shoot THROUGH them enough to be noticeable. Furthermore, MDs aren't making a comeback, they're dying back in droves. Unless you're on one of the other servers like Oceania, the US servers are naught but ARs, Snipers, and the occasional Laser Rifle. Even a great deal of the heavies are using the AR because they feel it is equally effective as the HMG, but costs less to fit.
Also, a scrub? Really? You're a bloody CPM member, act it! You don't see senators fling slurs at their constituents, do you? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8399
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback. Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can. ARs don't have to shoot around corners, they seem to shoot THROUGH them enough to be noticeable. Furthermore, MDs aren't making a comeback, they're dying back in droves. Unless you're on one of the other servers like Oceania, the US servers are naught but ARs, Snipers, and the occasional Laser Rifle. Even a great deal of the heavies are using the AR because they feel it is equally effective as the HMG, but costs less to fit. Also, a scrub? Really? You're a bloody CPM member, act it! You don't see senators fling slurs at their constituents, do you?
Senators are politicians.
CPM are players. |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
70
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.
8) GTA 5 is released n no1 gives a fuk anymore |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
189
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Sounds about right. I know I'm speccing further into AR merely because I have trouble competing with any other weapon efficiently. Nobody in their right mind can say that ARs are not ridiculous right now.
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.
The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.
In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.
You guys are all spot on. Spending my accumulated 1.5mil SP on the AR on Saturday. Yippie! |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
905
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:46:00 -
[39] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
ARs don't have to shoot around corners, they seem to shoot THROUGH them enough to be noticeable. Furthermore, MDs aren't making a comeback, they're dying back in droves. Unless you're on one of the other servers like Oceania, the US servers are naught but ARs, Snipers, and the occasional Laser Rifle. Even a great deal of the heavies are using the AR because they feel it is equally effective as the HMG, but costs less to fit. Also, a scrub? Really? You're a bloody CPM member, act it! You don't see senators fling slurs at their constituents, do you? Senators are politicians. CPM are players.
CPM are players with the responsibility to represent the rest of us at the personal level with CCP themselves. You have far too high of a position to casually snub players over your personal experience, especially without numbers or testing behind your claims. YOU ARE A POLITICIAN. You may not have been elected to your office, but it's your behavior here that reflects on CCP making the choice to 'hire' you. Every slip-up here condemns not just you, but the ones who put you where you are. Furthermore, does being a player allow you to be an asshat? Is that a requirement to be a player? Act like you deserve your position. |
mikegunnz
The Solecism of Limitation
638
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
As an AR user, I have to agree. They are A LITTLE overpowered.
Easy solution. Breach variant: High damage, slow ROF, short-ish effective range. It's fine, no need to touch. Tac variant: High damage, low ammo capacity, semi-auto, higher effective range. (but still lower range than laser) It's fine. Burst variant: This weapon could use a little love. I'd say give first 3shot burst more accuracy. Subsequent bursts what it currently has. HOWEVER, even if left as it is, it's ok. Regular variant (GEK38/Duvolle/etc): This is the main culprit of what ppl are complaining about. Easy solution. Lower its ROF. Currently its 750, drop it down to around 650.
This fixes many things. A. It makes the Breach/Burst variants more viable options to the regular AR. (since by nerfing it, you are inherently buffing the other versions) B. This makes all the other CQC weapons viable options. By lowering ROF to 650, you are raising the TTK. This makes shotty, SMG, HMG, etc all MUCH more effective against AR in CQC situations. Still balanced, because the CQC weapons lose potency at range pretty quickly. C. This fixes the "DUST is turning to a COD shooter" argument since TTK is raised.
This would make the AR the "jack of all trades" weapon it should be, while not quite the master of all. |
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mikegunnz
The Solecism of Limitation
640
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Posted - 2013.09.12 23:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
PS. If you think that dropping the ROF to 650 is overkill. You may be right. I'm always up for debate. After a little more thought, I'd say drop the ROF to 675. (an even 10% change) This would be a good starting point. CCP can always fine-tune from there. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:As an AR user, I have to agree. They are A LITTLE overpowered.
Easy solution. Breach variant: High damage, slow ROF, short-ish effective range. It's fine, no need to touch. Tac variant: High damage, low ammo capacity, semi-auto, higher effective range. (but still lower range than laser) It's fine. Burst variant: This weapon could use a little love. I'd say give first 3shot burst more accuracy. Subsequent bursts what it currently has. HOWEVER, even if left as it is, it's ok. Regular variant (GEK38/Duvolle/etc): This is the main culprit of what ppl are complaining about. Easy solution. Lower its ROF. Currently its 750, drop it down to around 650.
This fixes many things. A. It makes the Breach/Burst variants more viable options to the regular AR. (since by nerfing it, you are inherently buffing the other versions) B. This makes all the other CQC weapons viable options. By lowering ROF to 650, you are raising the TTK. This makes shotty, SMG, HMG, etc all MUCH more effective against AR in CQC situations. Still balanced, because the CQC weapons lose potency at range pretty quickly. C. This fixes the "DUST is turning to a COD shooter" argument since TTK is raised.
This would make the AR the "jack of all trades" weapon it should be, while not quite the master of all.
Actually, the TAR has better range than both the Laser weapons. In fact, the Regular does too. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1057
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Posted - 2013.09.12 23:13:00 -
[43] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:PS. If you think that dropping the ROF to 650 is overkill. You may be right. I'm always up for debate. After a little more thought, I'd say drop the ROF to 675. (an even 10% change) This would be a good starting point. CCP can always fine-tune from there.
Rebalance should be like flying plane. Minor adjustments, applied incrementally. |
mikegunnz
The Solecism of Limitation
640
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:
Actually, the TAR has better range than both the Laser weapons. In fact, the Regular does too.
Not so, someone just did a chart demonstrating how the Laser does the most damage at longer range. I believe it was Aeon Amandi. The Tac is better up until around the 70-80m range (if I remember correctly) but the laser outclasses it beyond that. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
419
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:15:00 -
[45] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback. Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
Heh heh, or does it make you a scrub because you are trying to use cover against an MD??
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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
906
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:
Actually, the TAR has better range than both the Laser weapons. In fact, the Regular does too.
Not so, someone just did a chart demonstrating how the Laser does the most damage at longer range. I believe it was Aeon Amandi. The Tac is better up until around the 70-80m range (if I remember correctly) but the laser outclasses it beyond that. Yes, but the TAR and AR are still competitive with the LR at that range, and the minute you take a step back the LR immediately loses its optimal and goes straight into Absolute. The LR has a sweetspot, yes, but it is a SPOT. It is very effective at exactly 81 meters and nowhere else. I said BETTER ranges, not LONGER ones. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
113
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Everything Dies wrote:Killar-12 wrote:If CCP nerfs the AR... 1 question... How?
I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons... Simple: High ROF weapons that are hand-held are horrible when it comes to accuracy over any sort of distance; the AR and SMG simply need to have much greater dispersion in their weapon spread. That, or remove/replace the kick reduction bonus you get from leveling into them. Dispersion and recoil need a massive increase on these weapons. at lvl 4, the GEK-38 does not start to kick until over halfway through the clip. HALFWAY and even then its a slight lift. Most dudes are dead before you even get to that half of the clip. Until then its laser like precision, even from the hip.
I regularly get three kills in one clip with an AR and I miss A LOT! |
Provolonee
Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY
178
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 00:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
How do you balance something that does~ 1500dmg a magizine on paper, and 200-1000 in a broken game. It seems now atleast the numbers on paper are matching what we see.
All balance before was based off gut feelings, now atleast they can use math.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1098
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Posted - 2013.09.13 00:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback. Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can. Who are you to call anyone a scrub? |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1944
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Posted - 2013.09.13 00:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote: you guys do realize that this is an fps?
If Dust were an FPS, a Shotgun would beat an Assault Rifle at 3 meters. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ... all sorts of other weapons litter the field.
Alongside the corpses of those who would use them. Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:If you change the AR, you change the game. If you don't change the AR, many will change games.
A shotty does beat an AR within 3 meters. In MAG, BF3, etc you can kill a shotty in cqc. I've even created a montage 1v1 vs a shotgun in MAG |
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Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
80
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 01:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:CPM are players with the responsibility to represent the rest of us at the personal level with CCP themselves. You have far too high of a position to casually snub players over your personal experience, especially without numbers or testing behind your claims. YOU ARE A POLITICIAN. Promotion!
Were all politicians, baby!
Some of us are better at hiding it - perhaps even from ourselves, and seemingly just speakin' 'da truth' instead.
But we all work an angle.
Dat's da truth! |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shadow of War88 wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) GTA 5 is released n no1 gives a fuk anymore Am I the only person that didn't like GTA 4, and have no plans to ever play 5??? |
Beck Weathers
High-Damage
54
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:25:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ineed, i get that its the starter gun so it needs to be decent so noobs feel like they can play, but it really needs its acuracy kicked in the balls. |
postmanclark2
Seraphim Initiative..
21
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
Pre 1.4, Mass Drivers were starting to become as popular as ARs; particularly in PC matches - at one stage there was only 3 or 4 AR users on the opposite side, for PC.
There were quite a few posts about MD nerfing - which I was all for; after a few matches of being blown to pieces from lots of different directions.
Now, hit detection has got better and noob assist has been implemented, the AR is seen to have become a lot more powerful.
At the moment, because of the pre - mentioned changes to the game - it is very hard to go solo and do as well, as you once did; all of the scrubs spec into ARs, or use them at the start of the game certainly. Due to noob assist, the other situational weapons, aren't going to do as well - because the AR is accurate and effective. You can only effectively solo with an AR, because you rely less on other squad mates, who can finish off the enemy.
I believe that the noob assist has been powered down (checking other threads), so this might tone down the AR, generally.
FYI, this leads me onto three separate issues.
1) There should be better alternatives to the milita AR, so that the scrubs will use them and get used to using other weapons, a militia MD, as an example. 2) For Dust to thrive, it is going to need to bring in more players; what will new players gravitate to, because of the general FPS genre - ARs. So if CCP were going to do something about ARs and nerf them, new players would not be attracted to the game, as much. 3) Watching the forums and seeing the balance of weapons / equipment in game - shows the general cycle of OP (buff) / UP (nerf). As a short history LR --> tac AR --> flaylock --> MD --> (AR in people's opinion - but scanners in my opinion). LRs in Chromosome (I think) were 1/4 too powerful (someone correct me) and got the subsequent nerf, flaylock was inherently OP - as shown by AR users, running around with the flaylock first lol. The MD wasn't nerfed, but got a nerf from the AR implementation in 1.4.
I'm with the person, who said that the AR should stay the same. Other weapons should be brought in - line with it to make the playing field more varied.
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Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
232
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL.
The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless.
In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST. I used a sniper rifle against one. He couldn't hit me. |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
441
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 02:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
As a scout I am saddened that I have L2 operation in ARs.... I should be focusing on the SMG, Shotty and my oddball Laser Rifle scout fit.
I guess on the up-side I can eventually loose all of those Balac's in a few games since I die so quickly, provided I continue to skill into AR..... (Why not, it does everything so well and I can't get close enough most times to use my other weapons!)
That being said, I'm a big fan of small changes to anything needing a tweak. AR range, maybe down 10% to start, ROF down 5% would be a great way to start.
I don't mind it being effective at various ranges but it's a killer right now.... it seriously outclasses a lot of other weapons. |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
239
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Posted - 2013.09.13 02:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
The key point is that there is absolutely no testing done when they do change things. I have AR prof 4, was the first weapon I speced into. Since I've gone to lvl 5 in MD, and laser rifles. I very much enjoy the laser rifle and kind of feel dirty using AR now just as I did using the MD in 1.3 but anything other then AR is just asking to get killed. Next up for lvl 5 is the PC looking forward to that but likely won't have many situations where I can use it thanks to AR's. |
TXSnowman
Pro Hic Immortalis
47
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Posted - 2013.09.13 02:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
I <3 Massdrivers |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
910
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 04:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Shadow of War88 wrote:Shotty GoBang wrote:1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) GTA 5 is released n no1 gives a fuk anymore Am I the only person that didn't like GTA 4, and have no plans to ever play 5???
No, you aren't :D |
Remm Duchax
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
114
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Posted - 2013.09.13 07:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Due to this post I now feel like the only guy in the game not using the AR... I only use the Scrambler Rifle and that's when I'm playing my Logi alt... |
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