DUST Search - The AR-514 Life Cycle

Dunk Mujunk wrote:

Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

Nobody wants to nerf the AR to hell and back. Calm your kittens. It needs to be balanced to be in line with EVERY OTHER WEAPON so there isn't a "best choice" merely a "preferred choice."

The joke of AR514 was funny before, but now it just isn't. They dominate the battlefield in almost every single situation. Rarely is any other weapon better than the full auto AR in any situation we have right now.

The fact that you have scouts and heavies giving up their shotguns and HMGs because ARs do their jobs better is a clear sign there is something very wrong.

Judging by the amount of likes you have i'm going to say you have been around more than long enough to know that plenty of people want the AR nerfed to hell and back. Most don't give good (intelligent) reasons or numbers, but the cry has been going out as long as I've been here (2 months roughly, not long I know). I personally feel the AR wasn't OP pre 1.4, but combine with AA it is to much. My feelings are I would rather have no AA and at most slight (slight slight SLIGHT) nerfs to the AR as opposed to heavy nerfs and keeping AA.

But that's just me. Everything I've said is merely opinion, not fact.

Things will be what things will be I guess.

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Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1035	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:34:00 - [1] - Quote 1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) CCP observes increased AR adoption rates. 8) Rebalance is postponed, to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 976	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:35:00 - [2] - Quote Sounds about right. I know I'm speccing further into AR merely because I have trouble competing with any other weapon efficiently. Nobody in their right mind can say that ARs are not ridiculous right now.
Aisha Ctarl Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1259	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL. The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless. In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 1095	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:40:00 - [4] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL. The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless. In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST. Bingo!
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 1095	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:42:00 - [5] - Quote If CCP nerfs the AR... 1 question... How? I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons...
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 1660	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:42:00 - [6] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Whoever says that the AR is jack of all trades but master of none is lying to you; the AR is MASTER OF ALL. The AR will shred anything that stands before it and has made using any other weapon in the game pointless. In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST. 100%. One of the many things Dust needs to be successful is real variation in weapons, balance, and niches. This allows for actual specialization and tactics, rather than regret of spending SP on anything other than AR. IF AR continues to dominate as it does, And all of the other weapons in this game are just meaningless fluff, then that whole "Deep customization" selling point is a hoax. Which at this point, is one of the few selling points dust claims to have.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 977	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:48:00 - [7] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: In Battlefield speak, the AR is the M16A3 of DUST. Could not have put it better. I have millions of SP in my MD and won't run it with my squad unless we are all packed together. ALL of us. I mean, 3 or 4 dudes surrounding me at all times because I'm dead from a militia AR/standard AR before/as I'm firing my third round, which by then has barely dented their shields. The only kills I get with my MD is when I get the jump on people, or when they're not even paying attention to me. Scout shotgun, I get ousted halfway across the map, and in less than a second. Even if I get the drop on the guy its terrifying because somewhere between trying to get the 2nd and 3rd shot to connect if he so much as hits me with a couple shots I'm dead. Laser, beats ARs when its at its mostly max range, even at that range they're still hitting you. From the beginning of its optimal to about the mid of its optimal an AR will easily kill you. Don't believe me? I have the videos to prove this. When I put my AR on (operation lvl 4, sharpshooter lvl 2) I maintain an easy 2.0 to 9.0 KDR consistently. If I'm not getting steam rolled in that match. I'm not one to ***** and moan but legitimately the AR has outright killed my enjoyment of variety in this game. I feel like I HAVE to run my AR unless I'm trying to be cute with one of these other silly things Dust considers weapons.
M McManus Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:49:00 - [8] - Quote Exactly, weapons and modules, might as well just give everyone a logi suit with 1000ehp, scanner, AR and DS3 with the new and improved aim bot whats the point in SP especially those veterans that have 20+ mill... Every other weapon and module is pretty worthless, MD can say they now have a job to do but when i spin around and auto target you and completely decimate your shields and armor in 2seconds when it takes MD users 4-5 rounds to kill even an advanced assault suit.. Not to mention shotgun users by the time they get into range CCP's aim assist takes over and completely demolishes shot gun users..
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:52:00 - [9] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: If CCP nerfs the AR... 1 question... How? I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons... Simple: High ROF weapons that are hand-held are horrible when it comes to accuracy over any sort of distance; the AR and SMG simply need to have much greater dispersion in their weapon spread. That, or remove/replace the kick reduction bonus you get from leveling into them.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 982	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:01:00 - [10] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Killar-12 wrote: If CCP nerfs the AR... 1 question... How? I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons... Simple: High ROF weapons that are hand-held are horrible when it comes to accuracy over any sort of distance; the AR and SMG simply need to have much greater dispersion in their weapon spread. That, or remove/replace the kick reduction bonus you get from leveling into them. Dispersion and recoil need a massive increase on these weapons. at lvl 4, the GEK-38 does not start to kick until over halfway through the clip. HALFWAY and even then its a slight lift. Most dudes are dead before you even get to that half of the clip. Until then its laser like precision, even from the hip.

Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 1095	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:06:00 - [11] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Killar-12 wrote: If CCP nerfs the AR... 1 question... How? I'd switch Range profiles with the HMG and see what that does for the two weapons... Simple: High ROF weapons that are hand-held are horrible when it comes to accuracy over any sort of distance; the AR and SMG simply need to have much greater dispersion in their weapon spread. That, or remove/replace the kick reduction bonus you get from leveling into them. Dispersion and recoil need a massive increase on these weapons. at lvl 4, the GEK-38 does not start to kick until over halfway through the clip. HALFWAY and even then its a slight lift. Most dudes are dead before you even get to that half of the clip. Until then its laser like precision, even from the hip. That too, but a SMALLER weapon that is a BLASTER somehow outranges an PROJECTILE LARGE WEAPON.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 152	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:17:00 - [12] - Quote The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons.
Ruthless Lee The Eliminators 64	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:19:00 - [13] - Quote Shotty nailed it, and it's just depressing.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 1095	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons. And this is why the thing needs it's name changed...
Aleksander Black Immortal Retribution 109	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:25:00 - [15] - Quote I believe that the solution for this problem lies close, with 1.5. Why, you ask? Simple. The current incarnation of the AR that we have is a "general purpose" AR. It was meant to work in a game with bad hit detection and no other racial variants, so it had to, more or less, "contain" all other Assault Rifles variants. The result is a weapon that deals extremely high damage in a reliable manner over an incredible distance, because if it weren't like this there would be no other weapon to fill the "hole". When you fix hit detection and, arguably, enable Aim Assist its only natural for such a weapon to start to dominate the battlefield. But here enters 1.5. DEVs have already confirmed new infantry weapons for 1.5 and, although this will be mainly an vehicle update, truth is that it is very likely that we see at least one of the two missing AR variants, and maybe both. Ideally both, because this would present the perfect opportunity for CCP to fix the AR and distribute it's strong points with fitting weaknesses across the racial variants, and make it balanced for the current core game mechanics. Players would have to opt for which aspect they believe to be most important in detriment of the others and this could bring balance and diversity not only for the ARs line, but for the whole game. I want to believe that all this was planned, at least to a degree looking at how close 1.4 and the new weapons at 1.5 are, but even if this is not the case I still believe that this is an opportunity CCP shouldn't pass on.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1562	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:26:00 - [16] - Quote Just wait until the new weapons come out. The AR tree is getting touched, and it will be in uncomfortable places.
Criteria Shipment Baynaer Space Command The Ditanian Alliance 444	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:27:00 - [17] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: 1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. Can you do CCP's bathroom stall's life cycle?
Fist Groinpunch Goonfeet Top Men. 49	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:42:00 - [18] - Quote Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons. Yes, it's easier and safer to change 10 weapons than it is to change one. That totally makes sense. It probably takes less time/work too. Here in Bizarro world.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 1944	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:48:00 - [19] - Quote You guys want to nerf the AR again? Nerf it how? The AR is working as intended....you guys do realize that this is an fps?
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 59	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:50:00 - [20] - Quote The main reason the AR is now undeniably OP is due to the new module introduced in 1.4. All ARs now come with the new module built in, and you don't even have to spec into them. The module I speak of is Aim Assist. I know all anti AR peeps will call bullshit on that statement, which is fine. I also know many AR peeps will call bullshit on that statement, which is also fine. I no longer have the energy to argue with those who say Aim Assist doesn't really make any difference. Remember the days of 7+ Mass Drivers pounding squads into the dirt every other match? Where did they go? On an extended lunch break? To Sea World? Some are still around, sure, but you don't see nearly as many anymore. I guess most jumped ship to hop on the AR band wagon, and why not? I don't blame them. Of course, it makes me wonder why this wasn't the case pre 1.4. If the AR was so OP before, why wait to jump on board till now? Because the AR post 1.4 is the AR people were complaining about pre 1.4. And now after bitching and moaning for so long, the urban legend that was the AR pre 1.4 has become a real life monster, gobbling up everyone and everything in its path. I'm an AR user. The Aim Assist has benefited me immensely. What's that? The Aim Assist is not an issue and it's just the AR being OP? LMAO, ok, that's cool. Go ahead and nerf the AR. What will everyone say when peeps are still getting mowed down because the AR aims itself I wonder? sigh Oh well. I would tell people to save their breath and not spout nonsense about hit detection and hit boxes in response to my post, but that would be wasting my breath, so **** it, i'll jump on board the anti AR band wagon. Hey CCP! Nerf the AR to hell and back, leave Aim Assist in place and as is, then after you introduce those changes i'll meet you back here on the forums in the "AR OP" threads that will still be here, and we can start the dance all over again.

Cosgar ParagonX 5185	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:59:00 - [21] - Quote If the combat and rail rifle just end up being less effective ARs, I'm officially done with the game.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8397	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:02:00 - [22] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: 1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1045	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:05:00 - [23] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: you guys do realize that this is an fps? If Dust were an FPS, a Shotgun would beat an Assault Rifle at 3 meters.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 989	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:06:00 - [24] - Quote Nobody wants to nerf the AR to hell and back. Calm your kittens. It needs to be balanced to be in line with EVERY OTHER WEAPON so there isn't a "best choice" merely a "preferred choice." The joke of AR514 was funny before, but now it just isn't. They dominate the battlefield in almost every single situation. Rarely is any other weapon better than the full auto AR in any situation we have right now. The fact that you have scouts and heavies giving up their shotguns and HMGs because ARs do their jobs better is a clear sign there is something very wrong.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 989	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:07:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: 1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 711	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:08:00 - [26] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: The problem is: If you change the AR, you change the game. It's much easier and safer to adjust other weapons to AR level, than to bring AR down to the level of other weapons. The only reason to change the AR itself would be if you would generally dislike the way the game is currently played. And that's a completely different question to whether or not the AR is stronger than other weapons. And this is why the thing needs it's name changed... I petition to call it Blaster Rifle. And problem solved. Familiarity for new players gone. Really: They could do this in a hotfix and see how it turns out. On a side note: Scrambler Rifle should be Pulse Laser Rifle.
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 59	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:14:00 - [27] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Nobody wants to nerf the AR to hell and back. Calm your kittens. It needs to be balanced to be in line with EVERY OTHER WEAPON so there isn't a "best choice" merely a "preferred choice." The joke of AR514 was funny before, but now it just isn't. They dominate the battlefield in almost every single situation. Rarely is any other weapon better than the full auto AR in any situation we have right now. The fact that you have scouts and heavies giving up their shotguns and HMGs because ARs do their jobs better is a clear sign there is something very wrong. Judging by the amount of likes you have i'm going to say you have been around more than long enough to know that plenty of people want the AR nerfed to hell and back. Most don't give good (intelligent) reasons or numbers, but the cry has been going out as long as I've been here (2 months roughly, not long I know). I personally feel the AR wasn't OP pre 1.4, but combine with AA it is to much. My feelings are I would rather have no AA and at most slight (slight slight SLIGHT) nerfs to the AR as opposed to heavy nerfs and keeping AA. But that's just me. Everything I've said is merely opinion, not fact. Things will be what things will be I guess.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 989	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:23:00 - [28] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Nobody wants to nerf the AR to hell and back. Calm your kittens. It needs to be balanced to be in line with EVERY OTHER WEAPON so there isn't a "best choice" merely a "preferred choice." The joke of AR514 was funny before, but now it just isn't. They dominate the battlefield in almost every single situation. Rarely is any other weapon better than the full auto AR in any situation we have right now. The fact that you have scouts and heavies giving up their shotguns and HMGs because ARs do their jobs better is a clear sign there is something very wrong. Judging by the amount of likes you have i'm going to say you have been around more than long enough to know that plenty of people want the AR nerfed to hell and back. Most don't give good (intelligent) reasons or numbers, but the cry has been going out as long as I've been here (2 months roughly, not long I know). I personally feel the AR wasn't OP pre 1.4, but combine with AA it is to much. My feelings are I would rather have no AA and at most slight (slight slight SLIGHT) nerfs to the AR as opposed to heavy nerfs and keeping AA. But that's just me. Everything I've said is merely opinion, not fact. Things will be what things will be I guess. Yes, some people do want it nerfed to hell and back, but I don't want weapons to be useless. We already have plenty of those. Many of us are trying to be reasonable with our requests. The full auto AR is definitely something people need for familiarity but it should not dominate like its doing. There are plenty of things I'm sure you could do with the AR to bring it in line but something should be done about it sooner rather than later. For every point of SP i put into my AR i feel dirty because I'm doing it not because I like the weapon but because it is practically required at this point.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8397	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:29:00 - [29] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: 1) CCP reviews numerous requests to balance the automatic assault rifle. 2) CCP is assured by AR users that the weapon is perfectly fine as is. 3) CCP observes AR performance spikes across all combat metrics and engagement ranges. 4) CCP reports that they are closely monitoring the AR situation. 5) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating the competitive playerbase. 6) AR proliferation increases, as folks seek to survive and compete. 7) Rebalance is postponed, as to avoid irritating an ever-growing playerbase. 8) Mass Drivers are making a comeback, and all sorts of other weapons litter the field. I have MD millions of SP in MDs. Trust me when I say they are NOT making a comeback. Well that makes you a scrub because MDs are racking up over 60% of my deaths. ARs don't particularly shoot around cover, MDs can.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1046	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:34:00 - [30] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Well that makes you a scrub Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: on Official Minja Business. ^ Sometimes I worry about you, IWS.



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