How would that motivate snipers to help? They would still just sit in the red line poking away at people. The only differece would be that they would get more wp for their squad mates hacking. I don't see the point.

Your problem, is that you dont see how snipers can benefit a squad, ever. This just means that you don't understand good battle tactics.

As it currently stands a sniper, who is doing anything other than suppressing a point for capture or defense purposes
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Wow, an argument between two people

I'm gonna take the side of Mobius. Snipers are assassins, removing targets as necessary. Here's your current fix:

Squad lead place rally order on someone important (guy with codebreaker mods). Sniper follows and protects target, gets bonus 20% WP for doing so. Problem solved.

I you are actually interested in making snipers participate in the game in a meaningful way you need to limit ho many sniper fits can be on a single team. As it stands we often end up in games where half our team is sniping. The number of sniper fits should be limited to two per team at a time.

Okay, so you do actually have some grasp of it.

So in that case, seems like you should be in favour of things to encourage them "suppressing a point for capture", etc.
that benefit squad objectives.


Your suggestion about win vs loss rewards, does not specifically encourage snipers to help out a squad. All it does, is encourage them to kill more people.

Your complaints about "sometimes I get too many snipers on my squad", is a problem with poor squad leadership, not game mechanics. In those cases, the leader simply says, "too many snipers in this squad. change your fit, or be booted from the squad."
It's no different from a squad leader who has a team full of heavies/dropship pilots/whocares.
It's up to the squad leader to tell his team, "This doesnt work. Some of you guys MUST change fit"

Currently, a squad leader has no "carrot" for a good sniper to want to follow. If he says "help us or I boot you from the squad", sniper says, "okay i dont care, my rewards dont change either way".
CCP needs to give snipers a motivation to participate as part of a squad.

yeah, there are top level snipers who go 20/0 blah blah, who it wont make any difference to. I'm not talking about those guys. I'm talking about the majority of new to middling snipers in the game, who would then make more WP working together as part of a squad, rather than lone wolfing it.

By following my suggestion of drastically limiting post match rewards for losing they will notice that when they are sniping in non-productive

It is my intent to [get rid of] the "my KDR was the highest so I won" mentality that we are all guilty of succumbing to, and this will only happen if winning is highly incentivized over loosing.

but that motivates the one or two snipers, at the expense of being able to give more dynamic squad orders. in my opinion, that's not a win.

btw, having the whole squad get rewarded for an objective capture, also benefits more than just snipers. It also benefits other people doing "support" type roles.
LAV ferrying, for example?

Man joins squad, AFKs, makes WP for nothing.

By following my suggestion of drastically limiting post match rewards for losing they will notice that when they are sniping in non-productive ways they loose more frequently which in turn leads to uselessly small payouts. Their SP development being hindered by their teams poor performance will push them to either try sniping in different ways which do help their team win (sometimes that is killing but typically not) or try a different role that allows them to have a more meaningful impact on a matches outcome.

It is my intent to kill the my KDR was the highest so I won mentality that we are all guilty of succumbing to, and this will only happen if winning is highly incentivized over loosing.

In defense of my "profession", I must add that dedicated snipers are not the biggest issue here. They usually do their jobs pretty well and help their teams. The problem is people switching to snipers when the battle seems lost and they want to minimize personal losses. This often has an avalanche effect. One guy switches to sniper, then another, and soon you have a team full of snipers.

Refer back to my "this is a squad leader issue" post.

Someone does that, the leader should kick them from the squad. problem solved.

There comes a point where winning is clearly impossible.

Why? If you have empty space and it's filled by an AFK'er, who is adding WP to the total pool by doing nothing?

Once again you are putting words into my mouth and making assumptions about me. I don't have an issue with too many snipers in my squad. When I run squads we rarely have a sniper. The exception is when I'm recruiting but once again I'm not squad lead in these cases so it really isn't a reflection on my leadership. What I said is that there are frequently too many snipers on a given team.

As I sated earlier, giving a bonus for hacking to the whole squad does nothing to encourage sniper participation. Snipers, especially the middling snipers, are typically disinterested in helping out their squad. They snipe because they feel like they can't compete in other roles, or because they see KDR as the be all and end all of FPS success.

By following my suggestion of drastically limiting post match rewards for losing they will notice that when they are sniping in non-productive ways they loose more frequently which in turn leads to uselessly small payouts. Their SP development being hindered by their teams poor performance will push them to either try sniping in different ways which do help their team win (sometimes that is killing but typically not) or try a different role that allows them to have a more meaningful impact on a matches outcome.

It is my intent to kill the my KDR was the highest so I won mentality that we are all guilty of succumbing to, and this will only happen if winning is highly incentivized over loosing.

Errr.. how exactly does someone "add WP" by "doing nothing"?
I've never noticed this is possible.

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I think he is referring to the squad hack bonus suggestion. If the whole squad gets say 5 WPs each then even if you are doing nothing you can gain WPs because your squad is hacking stuff..

Man joins squad, AFKs, makes WP for nothing. The problem is that it rewards lack of involvement because you are merely in squad. Someone could just goof off and make reward WP. So what if they make a little WP? We can't reward AFK at all, it's principle.

I do like the call-out idea, and if I have a Sniper Rifle, anything I look at in the scope ought to light up for my squadmates, so they can see that an enemy or several are around a corner.
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I personally wear three complex damage mods, an armor plate and armor repair due to profile dampening being nigh-useless

I think the scope light thing is a "nice idea", but it shouldnt come for free. Methinks it should be an optional, high-cost module.
ALso, it shouldnt be limited to sniper scope. All weapons have the 'light up enemy for you' feature. So, IMO, there should be a "share weapon scaning with squad" optional module.

As far as dampening being useless for snipers.... methinks it may see a resurgence.

Now with scanners getting used more... you may see vehicle scaners getting used more. (or hand scanners)

If you're good at visual stealth, you'll be doing pretty good.. UNTIL someone nails you with a scanner, and then it will be open seaon on your butt.

On the topic of sniper locations. We have a set of parameters we follow. Since in all reality with a DS a sniper can reach nearly any high position. We took steps to ensure that what sniper points do exist are able to be engaged by other players in some way.

To be more specific, over a certain height in meters snipers are completely blocked. In one range X meters up to X meters the sniper must be limited in their movement and must always be exposed to ground units. In the last parameter, that sits at the lowest of meters snipers are given more freedom to move, and able to move in and out of exposure freely.

Objective hack locations are to be protected from "long range" attacks and any snipers if at all possible.