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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
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Posted - 2013.09.08 17:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I observed in a reply to another thread, that snipers have no motivation to be team players.
They only get rewarded for kills.. its unrealistic for them to capture objectives... so why should they help out squads capture objectives?
In my opinion, there should be an entire-squad level bonus for capturing an objective, reguardless of who executes the capture.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
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Posted - 2013.09.08 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:How would that motivate snipers to help? They would still just sit in the red line poking away at people. The only differece would be that they would get more wp for their squad mates hacking. I don't see the point.
Your problem, is that you dont see how snipers can benefit a squad, ever. This just means that you don't understand good battle tactics.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:
As it currently stands a sniper, who is doing anything other than suppressing a point for capture or defense purposes
...
Okay, so you do actually have some grasp of it.
So in that case, seems like you should be in favour of things to encourage them "suppressing a point for capture", etc.
that benefit squad objectives.
Your suggestion about win vs loss rewards, does not specifically encourage snipers to help out a squad. All it does, is encourage them to kill more people.
Your complaints about "sometimes I get too many snipers on my squad", is a problem with poor squad leadership, not game mechanics. In those cases, the leader simply says, "too many snipers in this squad. change your fit, or be booted from the squad."
It's no different from a squad leader who has a team full of heavies/dropship pilots/whocares.
It's up to the squad leader to tell his team, "This doesnt work. Some of you guys MUST change fit"
Currently, a squad leader has no "carrot" for a good sniper to want to follow. If he says "help us or I boot you from the squad", sniper says, "okay i dont care, my rewards dont change either way".
CCP needs to give snipers a motivation to participate as part of a squad.
yeah, there are top level snipers who go 20/0 blah blah, who it wont make any difference to. I'm not talking about those guys. I'm talking about the majority of new to middling snipers in the game, who would then make more WP working together as part of a squad, rather than lone wolfing it.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Wow, an argument between two people
I'm gonna take the side of Mobius. Snipers are assassins, removing targets as necessary. Here's your current fix:
Squad lead place rally order on someone important (guy with codebreaker mods). Sniper follows and protects target, gets bonus 20% WP for doing so. Problem solved.
but that motivates the one or two snipers, at the expense of being able to give more dynamic squad orders. in my opinion, that's not a win.
btw, having the whole squad get rewarded for an objective capture, also benefits more than just snipers. It also benefits other people doing "support" type roles.
LAV ferrying, for example?
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:
By following my suggestion of drastically limiting post match rewards for losing they will notice that when they are sniping in non-productive
you're overrating the intelligence of the average player.
The majority of these types who play sniper, either wont notice, or they'll figure "there's nothing I can do about it".
It takes being under the leadership of someone smart, to point that out to them. And even then... Most Squad Leaders Suck.
There needs to be an in-your-face reward, for these people to notice.
ie: when a sniper happens to fall into a random pick-up squad, they get a nice big WP nice for "Squad Objective Capture: +100WP"
or some such.
Quote:It is my intent to [get rid of] the "my KDR was the highest so I won" mentality that we are all guilty of succumbing to, and this will only happen if winning is highly incentivized over loosing.
that at least, we can agree on. Except that I would say (for me at least) I coudl care less about the "I won" mentality. I care about my SP payout. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
but that motivates the one or two snipers, at the expense of being able to give more dynamic squad orders. in my opinion, that's not a win.
btw, having the whole squad get rewarded for an objective capture, also benefits more than just snipers. It also benefits other people doing "support" type roles.
LAV ferrying, for example?
Man joins squad, AFKs, makes WP for nothing.
Refer back to my "this is a squad leader issue" post.
Someone does that, the leader should kick them from the squad. problem solved.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
74
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 20:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
George Moros wrote:
In defense of my "profession", I must add that dedicated snipers are not the biggest issue here. They usually do their jobs pretty well and help their teams. The problem is people switching to snipers when the battle seems lost and they want to minimize personal losses. This often has an avalanche effect. One guy switches to sniper, then another, and soon you have a team full of snipers.
Aaaand.... why does that need to be "fixed"?
There comes a point where winning is clearly impossible.
Disclaimer: I have never done this. i didnt even realize this was "a thing"
but I can completely understand it, and personally dont see anything wrong with it.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 21:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
Refer back to my "this is a squad leader issue" post.
Someone does that, the leader should kick them from the squad. problem solved.
Why? If you have empty space and it's filled by an AFK'er, who is adding WP to the total pool by doing nothing?
Errr.. how exactly does someone "add WP" by "doing nothing"?
I've never noticed this is possible.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
75
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Posted - 2013.09.09 00:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Quil Evrything wrote:
Refer back to my "this is a squad leader issue" post.
Someone does that, the leader should kick them from the squad. problem solved.
Why? If you have empty space and it's filled by an AFK'er, who is adding WP to the total pool by doing nothing? Errr.. how exactly does someone "add WP" by "doing nothing"? I've never noticed this is possible. ... I think he is referring to the squad hack bonus suggestion. If the whole squad gets say 5 WPs each then even if you are doing nothing you can gain WPs because your squad is hacking stuff..
ah, right, didnt think about that.
wel, anyway, that's obviously up to the squad leader in question. I was replying to the person who was up in arms about the idea that people could sit in the squad and get rewarded for "doing nothing".
I pointed out that the squad leader can always kick them. You pointed out that the squad leader could alternatively choose to keep them, for the teenietiny extra wp.
Either way, it's up to the squad leader what to do about it. Thus, that is an aspect of my proposal that doesnt need to be fixed.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 02:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ferindar wrote:
I do like the call-out idea, and if I have a Sniper Rifle, anything I look at in the scope ought to light up for my squadmates, so they can see that an enemy or several are around a corner.
...
I personally wear three complex damage mods, an armor plate and armor repair due to profile dampening being nigh-useless
I think the scope light thing is a "nice idea", but it shouldnt come for free. Methinks it should be an optional, high-cost module.
ALso, it shouldnt be limited to sniper scope. All weapons have the 'light up enemy for you' feature. So, IMO, there should be a "share weapon scaning with squad" optional module.
As far as dampening being useless for snipers.... methinks it may see a resurgence.
Now with scanners getting used more... you may see vehicle scaners getting used more. (or hand scanners)
If you're good at visual stealth, you'll be doing pretty good.. UNTIL someone nails you with a scanner, and then it will be open seaon on your butt.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
78
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Posted - 2013.09.09 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ferindar wrote:
This means they want to prevent overwatch snipers, and force snipers to shoot from >100m.
AR514 indeed.
I found one or two objectives, that have a wide-open back.. but only around 100m.
Then of course most others are covered. Some more than others.
Did you mistype "<100m" ?
I'm not sure how making snipers shoot from >100m is a bad thing :)
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 16:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:The motivation for snipers would be guardian points for kills on an enemy within 30m of a squad member, maybe the ability to tag and score tag asists.
neat idea. But Im not sure how fair that would be to other team members.
Here's an idea, that would benefit snipers, and others:
More squad leader options.
Instead of a squad-wide set of orders (or rather, in addition to them), give squad leaders the ability to have in-game instructions *PER UNIT*.
So he could tell individual squad members (not just snipers) "your job is protecting your team". So anyone like this, would get the type of bonus you mention.
Now lets come up with other potential "individual unit commands", and flesh out a full proposal :)
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
78
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 17:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont think having a weapon-specific scanner is appropriate.
For one thing, someone can technically "snipe" with a scrambler rifle too.
It has a longer range than AR, which is after all, what you are going to be sniping against most of the time.
I think the current scanner thing is appropriate. Typical snipers show up on decent active scanners already. If snipers want to hide from that, they have to go scout + dampening. Which costs them in survivability. it's a good balance.
Now, how about those squad commands?
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
95
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Posted - 2013.09.10 18:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
lrian Locust wrote:[quote=Mobius Kaethis]
- I run an advanced scout suit, with proficiency 3 and a module in dampening, and I'm still getting scanned.
A stealth sniper side moment.
Lets look at some numbers.
If you get your suit proficiency to 3, AND your profile dampening to 3 ...
A scout suit, with your scout level at 3, should have a base profile of 36.31295, I think.
That's from 45 * (.95 * 3 from scout suit skill) * (.98 *3 from dampening skill)
So that, plus even a MILITIA dampener, should in theory get you under 36. You'll be safe from "advanced" scaners.
But, proto scanners are another matter.
Now, to hide from all but the suuperdooper duvolle focused scanner, you need to be under 28.
Otherwise, proto scanners will still see you.
Technically, even two militia dampeners, should get you under that, IF you have dampening skill to 3.
36.31295 * (.85 * 2) = 26.236
Note, however, that a single advanced dampener, will NOT get you safe.
36.31295 * (.80) = 29.05036167600000
Note also, that two advanced dampers, "only" get you to 23.x, so you wont be any safer than with 2 militia dampeners.
At your current skill level, you haev no way of hiding from the duvolle "focused" scanner. but most poeple will be running the quantum one, for the extended light-up time. So if you just adjust as per above, you'll be relatively safe.
Unless of course, the person notices the scan isnt 100% accurate, and re-fits to the focused one just 'cause you **** them off :)
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
195
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:
I really would like the painting option as well and suggest that CCP make a new module for it called a "Target Painter", which will, when equipped, paint any target you aim at. The Painted target is broadcast for the whole team and is easy to see on the Tac Net display. This would work for not only the sniper but for everyone else using any other weapon. Want to paint people with your Nova Knives? No problem.
i like it!
Almost identical to current scanner "module".
erm.... although game mechanics would be wierd for it :(
It would be simplest if they just kept it like scanner, so it would be another "weapon" of sorts
That's the down side.
On the plus side... it would be a decent excuse to fit it with a scope. So even though you couldnt shoot while scoped... you COULD at least be a proper "spotter".
And that woudl also lead into.. REAL sniper team pairs! shooter and spotter!
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