I keep seeing some state that weapons with a high RoF are "hitscan" weapons.

Hitscan means there is an invisible line, and if you cross the path of this line you automatically take damage.

When you are being shot, you may notice some bullets flying past you because of dispersion, while some of the bullets are landing, it means you are not being shot with a "hitscan weapon"

"hitscan weapon":

Laser Rifle

Not "hitscan weapons":

AR
ScR
ScP
SMG
HMG

For these weapons to do any damage the projectile actually has to hit you.

AoE Weapons.

For these weapons to do any damage the projectile or splash actually has to hit you.

You're welcome!

Actually all the weapons you listed are hit scan. You really have no idea what hits can is.

I know exactly what hitscan is.

With hitscan weapons, when an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory

ie: you cross the path of the weapon, you get hit. My observation is that this is not how weapons in dust work, except of course the laser rifle.

what yoru seeing is an ANIMATION

its not bullets missing, its the animation of the bullets, it doesnt change

it is the bullets missing. I have noticed, that when moving, you can be hit by the dispersed projectiles as well as the accurately placed projectiles.

To improve the realism, programmers may use hitscan functions in slightly different ways - for example, applying a random perturbation to the calculated path to simulate inaccuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

I know exactly what hitscan is.

With hitscan weapons, when an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory

ie: you cross the path of the weapon, you get hit. My observation is that this is not how weapons in dust work, except of course the laser rifle.

if you basic your conclusion off of the fact that ocasionally bullets miss then i would like to point you to the "accuracy" stat of the weapons.

they have a built in failure rate, wich the laser rifle does not have.

this is to adjust for the point and hit nature of hitscan, making the weapons feel closer to a spray weapon.


also note that you dont "see" every bullet that comes out of a gun, thats how we know its an animation and not a representation of how the gun is actually functioning


what exactly are you going to do if a dev comes in here and goes "lol yup its hitscan"???

What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Here's what I want to know: Forge Gun, hitscan or not hitscan?

I use the thing on a daily basis, but I can't decide. It seems to be instant death for infantry, but requires leading for LAVs and Dropships.

OP dosent know what he's talking about

clearly

Then try to prove me wrong instead of just being a troll.

don't have to, just look up there is plenty of others telling you and why.

To an extent, yes.

At range you can actually see that the projectiles have travel time. If you see someone fire, you can step to the side and watch the projectile fly past your face.

It's not.

Actually all the weapons you listed are hitscan. You really have no idea what hitscan is.

All those weapons hit you at the exact time they are fired. The projectiles you are seeing is simply an animation to make the weapon look believable. Bullet dispersion, or bloom is simply a mechanic that causes that line to wobble the more you fire , which causes bullets to fire off in random directions.

Do you even fps?

You can see the tracers of the projectiles. You can see the beam of the ScR and ScP. You can see them following behind eachother in rapid succession. You can see the SR projectiles, you can see the tracers on the HMG and SMG.

Just look up there, I countered their arguments, where are they now?

Just look up there, I countered their arguments, where are they now?

Laughing.

i can confirm i laughed

restating your opinion isnt a counter.

its the equivilant of screaming "im right im right im right!!!!!!!"

I've spoken to Wolfman before about this or similar issue and he did confirm what everyone else has said. But it's quite good when you can't tell easily, eh?! Mission accomplished.

I didn't simply restate my opinion as you say. I offered evidence refuting other people's opinions.

Go ahead and laugh too, i don't really care.

Until a DEV actually says that it is indeed hitscan, I'm of the opinion it is not. I have stated my reasoning for this opinion.

Everyone on here ridiculing me for my opinion, which I have offered strong evidence to support, has shown absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it is hitscan. You are simply assuming that it is because other games (not all games) use hitscan.

So yea, go ahead and laugh it up.

I've seen a long-range Scrambler Rifle projectile heading towards me and dodged to the side, watching the projectile.

It disappeared when it reached the point my head HAD been when it was fired, with the same graphical effect as you get when a Scrambler shot hits.

I lost more than half my Scout suit's shields.

Pretty sure it's hitscan. Will laugh if a dev posts here, because they WILL confirm the weapons are hitscan. I'm pretty sure the AR being hitscan was mentioned in an early devblog, but it's been a LOOONG time since I looked at anything that far back.

several people have givin you evidence PROVING its an animation.

people have posted countless links and tryed to reason with you.

you havnt actually refuted any arguments...

your just saying NUH-UNH but with more words.

Visually representing the firing effect of a hitscan weapon can be difficult - since the weapon hits its target instantaneously, any bullet or projectile that comes from the weapon is merely a 'ghost', and where it lands may not necessarily represent its actual hit. In particular, a projectile bullet effect will always lag behind the effect of its hit, a problem which can be compounded by internet latency in online multiplayer gaming.

The hitscan method also precludes ballistics, as it cannot simulate any kind of movement other than a straight line, such as a parabolic arc or atmospheric resistance (including wind direction).

With advances in processing and internet bandwidth, it has become more practical to simulate the ballistic nature of real-world firearms in real-time games by using a more realistic "projectile" model, spawning bullets as actual game objects with mass and velocity and continuously simulating them until they reach their target.

What evidence? Show me the evidence that it is simply animation.

If you are referring to the wikipedia, this came from the same page:


People have stated their opinion that it is animation.

I stated my opinion that it is more than animation, and offered evidence to support my claim.

You're just saying NUH-UNH but with less words.

Link?

IRC and I haven't kept logs, you'd have to ask Nova Knife or Heinz D. to dig up logs.

Another thing about the Laser, it fires in pulses. I used it for many months so got got intimate (:P) with it. If you swiped a person fast enough you could avoid damaging them as one of the pulses wasn't aimed at them even if they crossed the beam.

What evidence? Show me the evidence that it is simply animation.

If you are referring to the wikipedia, this came from the same page:


People have stated their opinion that it is animation.

I stated my opinion that it is more than animation, and offered evidence to support my claim.

You're just saying NUH-UNH but with less words.

So then, it isn't hitscan?

Because, if it was hitscan, as soon as you held the trigger, if someone was in your sights, you would deal damage, right?

Just like if the AR was hitscan, no matter how fast you swipe your reticule over your target, you would do damage, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't happen in DUST, does it?
.

So then, it isn't hitscan?

Because, if it was hitscan, as soon as you held the trigger, if someone was in your sights, you would deal damage, right?

Just like if the AR was hitscan, no matter how fast you swipe your reticule over your target, you would do damage, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't happen in DUST, does it?

So then, our guns actually fire projectiles, right? These projectiles have actual travel time. That is very apparent if you are shot from an AR, for example, outside of its effective range.

Granted, these weapons don't have complete ballistic model, as pointed out by the gentleman above, but they also aren't hitscan weapons.

yoru not taking into account rate of fire.

for what your thinking to be true weapons would all have to have a damage over time damage profile.

instead it just has a timer built into the hitscan to keep track of the rate of fire for the weapon and apply damage at the apropriate invervals

That is not hitscan. As I stated before, when you get shot from Long Range with an AR, you can feel each bullet hitting and dropping your HP as individual bullets, not a stead stream of damage.

Hitscan = steady consistent non intermittent HP drain.

This is not how DUST works.

As for your previous post, just because all bullets do not have an animation, does not make it Hitscan.

All of my steps do not make a sound, does that mean I'm not taking those steps?

The ScR does not do damage before it's beam reaches you. If that is what you see, you are delusional.

In DUST, sniper rifle's bullet travel time is a factor.


It seams that DUST uses a partial ballistics model.

Hitscan = steady consistent non intermittent HP drain.

So you don't know what hitscan means.

Glad you finally confirmed it. I was a little confused about how exactly you were defining the term until you posted this.

You're incorrectly applying a specific possible damage model as a requirement for hitscan, rather than actually understanding what a hit detection model entails.

Whether hitscan is being used to trace a single line in a single instant and mark a target for a binary "yes/no" damage application, or used for a constant stream of damage, the method of determining the "hit" condition that mkes it hitscan.

If there's a slow-moving stream of energy that creates an arc when you turn, and anything within the energy stream takes constant damage, that's NOT hitscan.

If the game simulates bullets by tracing straight lines out from the weapon and applying damage any time one of those lines intersects with an enemy hitbox (or a friendly one if FF is on), that's hitscan. It doesn't trace a line and keep that line in place, or shake it around a bit and apply a tiny amount of damage every time. It traces a line that doesn't stay in place, then traces another line for the next bullet, and each time one of those lines touches a valid hitbox, it applies damage to the target.

well said.

i think this clears up some of the confusion as to what hitscan is and why were looking atyou a little funny.

were simply using different definitions for hitscan, ours being backed by actual referances.

Everything I have stated, was backed either by my own experiences or by references.

If you cannot think of any other way to discuss this other than the condescending tone you have taken, then leave my thread. As much as you would love to think otherwise you don't know everything. Most of what you have said is completely baseless, unless you want to count other people's posts as your "references"

doesn't trace a line and keep that line in place, or shake it around a bit and apply a tiny amount of damage every time. It traces a line that doesn't stay in place, then traces another line for the next bullet, and each time one of those lines touches a valid hitbox, it applies damage to the target.

This is a bit more in depth definition of hitscan than any I have been able to find.

Basically what you are saying here, is that when you fire your weapon, multiple hitscan lines are produced. (one for each "bullet"?) Does each one of these hitscan lines have a beginning and end? How long are the hitscan lines?

Why is it that, when I get shot by an AR at range, the damage does not occure immediately? From everything I have read about hitscan, that is how it works. The damage is simultaneous with the pull of the trigger.

Do you see the questions this raises?

EZMode reference courtesy of Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

It was posted earlier in the thread, but you should probably go back and actually read it.

The page also cites a variety of examples that are described by actual game developers as hitscan.

Care to provide a reference that contradicts that (correct) definition?

if an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory GÇö a practical approximation of a bullet's speed and accuracy over short distances

What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

This is a bit more in depth definition of hitscan than any I have been able to find.

Basically what you are saying here, is that when you fire your weapon, multiple hitscan lines are produced. (one for each "bullet"?) Does each one of these hitscan lines have a beginning and end? How long are the hitscan lines?

Why is it that, when I get shot by an AR at range, the damage does not occure immediately? From everything I have read about hitscan, that is how it works. The damage is simultaneous with the pull of the trigger.

Do you see the questions this raises?

its one hitscan line that wobbles. thats what hes saying

and its a single line that exsists for as long as you hold the trigger.

each "bullet" you fire just changes teh state of the line from no damage, to damage

think of it like a flashlight, for as long as you press the ON button it shines a blue light, and at a rate of 1000RPM it changes its color from blue to red.

as long as two conditions are met damage is done

theres a target in the beam, and the beam is in its red state.


as for what your experiancing with the "no damage immediatly thing" its probable that the condition "target in beam" is not being met :P

aka hes shooting but hasnt trained on you yet.

What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Basically what you are saying here, is that when you fire your weapon, multiple hitscan lines are produced. (one for each "bullet"?)

Does each one of these hitscan lines have a beginning and end? How long are the hitscan lines?

Why is it that, when I get shot by an AR at range, the damage does not occure immediately? From everything I have read about hitscan, that is how it works. The damage is simultaneous with the pull of the trigger.

(emphasis added)

From the Wikipedia page, which I did actually read. So this is saying that hitscan is pretty much simultaneous with trigger pull. Well, damage output in DUST is not simultaneous with trigger pull.

(emphasis added)

From the Wikipedia page, which I did actually read. So this is saying that hitscan is pretty much simultaneous with trigger pull. Well, damage output in DUST is not simultaneous with trigger pull.

It turns out I was wrong, this time!

You have (mostly) all helped clear up the confusion here for me.

While it is hitscan, it is programmed in such a way that is is meant to mimic the way a real gun would fire, to an extent.

*Multiple hitscan lines to mimic dispersion and multiple projectiles

*Delayed initial damage output to mimic bullet travel time

*Intermittent damage output to mimic bullet travel time

Thanks guys!

P.S COD has hit scans too. So if you didn't know, I just blew your mind O.O

I didn't simply restate my opinion as you say. I offered evidence refuting other people's opinions.

Go ahead and laugh too, i don't really care.

Until a DEV actually says that it is indeed hitscan, I'm of the opinion it is not. I have stated my reasoning for this opinion.

Everyone on here ridiculing me for my opinion, which I have offered strong evidence to support, has shown absolutely no evidence whatsoever that it is hitscan. You are simply assuming that it is because other games (not all games) use hitscan.

So yea, go ahead and laugh it up.

We aren't assuming anything, the devs saod those types of weapons were hits can because it was easier for the servers to process. Not every weapon is a jitscan weapon, but all the automatics, rifles, and the scrambler pistols, and smog are hit scan.

I keep seeing some state that weapons with a high RoF are "hitscan" weapons.

Hitscan means there is an invisible line, and if you cross the path of this line you automatically take damage.

When you are being shot, you may notice some bullets flying past you because of dispersion, while some of the bullets are landing, it means you are not being shot with a "hitscan weapon"

"hitscan weapon":

Laser Rifle

Not "hitscan weapons":

AR
ScR
SR
ScP
SMG
HMG

For these weapons to do any damage the projectile actually has to hit you.

AoE Weapons.

For these weapons to do any damage the projectile or splash actually has to hit you.

EDIT:

It turns out I was wrong, this time!

You have (mostly) all helped clear up the confusion here for me.

While it is hitscan, it is programmed in such a way that is is meant to mimic the way a real gun would fire, to an extent.

*Multiple hitscan lines to mimic dispersion and multiple projectiles

*Delayed initial damage output to mimic bullet travel time

*Intermittent damage output to mimic bullet travel time

Thanks guys!

Just so you know, we've already found the source of the problem, which was OP's misunderstanding of the term "hitscan", and he's not only admitted his mistake, but edited the OP and thread title to reflect his recognition of the mistake.

You're late.

well i should now apologize for being a bit of an ass

Master: +1 for being an adult and changing your thread title.

(I intend to reward every instance of rational, civil behavior I see on these forums.)

But he's still wrong!

Halo 4 does not have those three stupid things he listed, and it was a multi million dollar project.

Holyshit it is literally just a strobe laser. THATS IT!

Trying to set an example.

I learned a long time ago if you are proven wrong, you save face just simply admitting you were wrong. Insisting you are right when you run out of logical arguments simply makes you look like an immature foolish jackass!

*Multiple hitscan lines to mimic dispersion and multiple projectiles

*Delayed initial damage output to mimic bullet travel time

*Intermittent damage output to mimic bullet travel time


THESE 3 THINGS DO NOT EXIST.

Really now?

Do you have any evidence to support this?

I surely offered plenty evidence to support that they do. Even others who have posted in this thread seem to agree that they do. If you can support your statement, I would be more than happy to consider the evidence.

i can tell you weapons like snipers and ARs certainly dont have bulllet travel time. it is an instantaneous damage transferral, or however long it takes for the computing to happen and send you back a ding and the enemy a death lol

Sniper Rifles do have projectile travel time. I spent quite a lot of time as a sniper on an alt, I can assure you it does.

Another little tidbit for this thread that Wolfman told me. I was wondering whether large railguns fired projectiles or used hitscan. He said they were projectiles but he was considering changing them to hitscan as they were so fast anyway that it wouldn't have made a big difference.

your letting your brain play tricks on you because you keep leaning on what your eyes are seeing via the bullet animations rather than what is actually happening.

bullet animations are purely cosmetic and do not actually represent what your gun is doing aside from telling you if it is being fired or not.

Interesting. I wonder if this also applies to the FG and Sniper rifle, as they are both semiauto railguns as well.

I'm positive the FG is not hitscan.

Actually, I am basing this off of how I receive damage from long range shots, not the animations.

But how can you do that? When you get shot, how do you know that the tracer you saw was from the bullet that hit you moments later, rather than a previous bullet. This would require some very deliberate testing to be sure.

I think the fact that we generally don't notice bullet delays when shooting at something (other than the network latency) is much stronger evidence that no such delaying exists. Also it doesn't really make sense for a technical reason, which is a bit difficult to explain:

If there is code which delays application of the damage based on distance, the hit detection would still have to be based on the initial scan (because that one tells you the distance to base the delay on). This means that even if the target then moves, it would still be hit with no chance to dodge the bullet. Why would CCP do that? And even if it's in the game for some reason, the actual relevance for gameplay would be close to nil anyway.

Good point. It would definitely require some deliberate testing. Two players would have to be on coms, one says when he fires the other says when he gets hit.

*Multiple hitscan lines to mimic dispersion and multiple projectiles

*Delayed initial damage output to mimic bullet travel time

*Intermittent damage output to mimic bullet travel time


THESE 3 THINGS DO NOT EXIST.

What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Even that is subject to variation because of the delay sending information via the battle server.

Good point. It would definitely require some deliberate testing. Two players would have to be on coms, one says when he fires the other says when he gets hit.

While there is no reason why fast traveling bullets could not be implemented as a projectile with accurate ballistics, doing so generally costs a lot in terms of performance, is harder to compensate for lag, and doesn't really gain you much at all in terms of gameplay. It's usually only done in games which go absolutely hardcore on simulating realistic gun physics.

It's practically impossible to figure out whether a bullet is implemented as hitscan or projectile from circumstantial evidence alone. But hitscan would be the more logical choice, and several people have reported that CCP confirmed that those weapons are indeed hitscan so I see no reason to think that they are lying.