DUST Search - Hit scan weapons!

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Everything I have stated, was backed either by my own experiences or by references.

If you cannot think of any other way to discuss this other than the condescending tone you have taken, then leave my thread. As much as you would love to think otherwise you don't know everything. Most of what you have said is completely baseless, unless you want to count other people's posts as your "references"

EZMode reference courtesy of Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

It was posted earlier in the thread, but you should probably go back and actually read it.

The page also cites a variety of examples that are described by actual game developers as hitscan.

Care to provide a reference that contradicts that (correct) definition?

Quote:

if an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory GÇö a practical approximation of a bullet's speed and accuracy over short distances

(emphasis added)

From the Wikipedia page, which I did actually read. So this is saying that hitscan is pretty much simultaneous with trigger pull. Well, damage output in DUST is not simultaneous with trigger pull.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3696	Posted - 2013.09.05 20:17:00 - [1] - Quote I've seen a long-range Scrambler Rifle projectile heading towards me and dodged to the side, watching the projectile. It disappeared when it reached the point my head HAD been when it was fired, with the same graphical effect as you get when a Scrambler shot hits. I lost more than half my Scout suit's shields. Pretty sure it's hitscan. Will laugh if a dev posts here, because they WILL confirm the weapons are hitscan. I'm pretty sure the AR being hitscan was mentioned in an early devblog, but it's been a LOOONG time since I looked at anything that far back.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3703	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:23:00 - [2] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Hitscan = steady consistent non intermittent HP drain. So you don't know what hitscan means. Glad you finally confirmed it. I was a little confused about how exactly you were defining the term until you posted this. You're incorrectly applying a specific possible damage model as a requirement for hitscan, rather than actually understanding what a hit detection model entails. Whether hitscan is being used to trace a single line in a single instant and mark a target for a binary "yes/no" damage application, or used for a constant stream of damage, the method of determining the "hit" condition that mkes it hitscan. If there's a slow-moving stream of energy that creates an arc when you turn, and anything within the energy stream takes constant damage, that's NOT hitscan. If the game simulates bullets by tracing straight lines out from the weapon and applying damage any time one of those lines intersects with an enemy hitbox (or a friendly one if FF is on), that's hitscan. It doesn't trace a line and keep that line in place, or shake it around a bit and apply a tiny amount of damage every time. It traces a line that doesn't stay in place, then traces another line for the next bullet, and each time one of those lines touches a valid hitbox, it applies damage to the target.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3705	Posted - 2013.09.05 22:43:00 - [3] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Everything I have stated, was backed either by my own experiences or by references. If you cannot think of any other way to discuss this other than the condescending tone you have taken, then leave my thread. As much as you would love to think otherwise you don't know everything. Most of what you have said is completely baseless, unless you want to count other people's posts as your "references" EZMode reference courtesy of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan It was posted earlier in the thread, but you should probably go back and actually read it. The page also cites a variety of examples that are described by actual game developers as hitscan. Care to provide a reference that contradicts that (correct) definition?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3713	Posted - 2013.09.05 23:08:00 - [4] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Basically what you are saying here, is that when you fire your weapon, multiple hitscan lines are produced. (one for each "bullet"?) While you're firing, multiple lines are produced. Or a single line is wobbled around, but damage is only applied down that line at intervals. Either method is hitscan, and either method will produce the same result. Quote: Does each one of these hitscan lines have a beginning and end? How long are the hitscan lines? They begin at the weapon barrel and extend from it to the target, an obstacle, or the weapon's maximum range. Whichever comes first. Depending on the game and the weapon in question, obstacles or targets may be penetrated by the line in some cases. Quote: Why is it that, when I get shot by an AR at range, the damage does not occure immediately? From everything I have read about hitscan, that is how it works. The damage is simultaneous with the pull of the trigger. Either the visible damage application on your screen is tied to the animation even though the damage calculation wasn't, or there's latency involved in taking damage because of the fact that hit detection is run server-side. With the number of times I've died after taking cover from my killer, I'm leaning towards the latter, but it may be a little of both. Either possibility could also explain the example I posted earlier in the thread where I saw a Scrambler Rifle beam coming, sidestepped while turning, and took damage as it impacted on the empty space where my head had been before I started moving.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3714	Posted - 2013.09.05 23:16:00 - [5] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Everything I have stated, was backed either by my own experiences or by references. If you cannot think of any other way to discuss this other than the condescending tone you have taken, then leave my thread. As much as you would love to think otherwise you don't know everything. Most of what you have said is completely baseless, unless you want to count other people's posts as your "references" EZMode reference courtesy of Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan It was posted earlier in the thread, but you should probably go back and actually read it. The page also cites a variety of examples that are described by actual game developers as hitscan. Care to provide a reference that contradicts that (correct) definition? Quote: if an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory GÇö a practical approximation of a bullet's speed and accuracy over short distances (emphasis added) From the Wikipedia page, which I did actually read. So this is saying that hitscan is pretty much simultaneous with trigger pull. Well, damage output in DUST is not simultaneous with trigger pull. As others have mentioned this is the result of latency. But not only that, it's also in part because the game calculates the hit detection process on its servers instead of a client. When you pull the trigger, that trigger pull is sent to the server. Hit detection and the relevant damage application occurs the instant the server receives that instruction, and is then sent to the recipient of the damage (if there is one). The process of transmitting data from firer to target is what causes the delay. There are also many games where the hitscan calculation, while instantaneous, isn't actually processed at the moment of the trigger-pull, but is delayed to allow for a simulation of travel time.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3761	Posted - 2013.09.06 02:01:00 - [6] - Quote Zekain K wrote: We aren't assuming anything, the devs saod those types of weapons were hits can because it was easier for the servers to process. Not every weapon is a jitscan weapon, but all the automatics, rifles, and the scrambler pistols, and smog are hit scan. Just so you know, we've already found the source of the problem, which was OP's misunderstanding of the term "hitscan", and he's not only admitted his mistake, but edited the OP and thread title to reflect his recognition of the mistake. You're late.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3786	Posted - 2013.09.06 12:45:00 - [7] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Musta Tornius wrote: Another little tidbit for this thread that Wolfman told me. I was wondering whether large railguns fired projectiles or used hitscan. He said they were projectiles but he was considering changing them to hitscan as they were so fast anyway that it wouldn't have made a big difference. Interesting. I wonder if this also applies to the FG and Sniper rifle, as they are both semiauto railguns as well. I'm positive the FG is not hitscan. Sniper is hitscan, FG is not. Both were confirmed a LONG time ago and don't appear to have changed since.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3795	Posted - 2013.09.06 14:57:00 - [8] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: Good point. It would definitely require some deliberate testing. Two players would have to be on coms, one says when he fires the other says when he gets hit. Even that is subject to variation because of the delay sending information via the battle server.