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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
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CCP Nullarbor
C C P C C P Alliance
2325
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Posted - 2013.09.03 13:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi All-
Just want to write down a few notes about what we changed in 1.4 in relation to joining a battle and explain some of the questions you might have. So in 1.4 alongside a new battle finder we have rewritten the matchmaking system, that is the logic that decides what battle you join and who you are playing with. There are a number of things that we are trying to optimize in this step, for example:
- Find you your preferred selection of game mode
- Reduce the network latency between you and the server
- Match you against similarly skilled players
- Reduce the waiting time it takes to find a battle
- Reduce the number of partially filled battles
- Reduce how often you join a battle already in progress
And now on with some questions:
Why don't I get the game mode I selected? You can now choose multiple game modes however this will not always gaurentee you get one of those modes. The selection is used in 2 ways, we first build groups of players who have similar preferences of game mode, region and ranking. The second step is to use everyone's preferences to perform a vote on which mode to play. We will be tuning how effectively this works over the coming days so you should see some improvement in how often you get your selected modes.
The teams are not balanced / full This is a known issue, we are working on a fix right now.
Matchmaking is taking too long? / Why do I get some message about a guy called Scotty? This is a big new system with a lot of parameters that need careful tweaking. We are aware of a couple of issues already and are working on fixing them in the coming days. We will also be carefully monitoring the health of the matchmaking queues including waiting times and how balanced the battles are, then adjusting settings accordingly. For now, if you get a Scotty message just click join again.
I have a developer blog in the works covering a lot of these changes in more detail which we will post once things have stabilized and we have some time to produce pretty graphs and such. If you have any questions or feedback please reply to this thread.
Thanks for your patience and I hope you enjoy the rest of Uprising 1.4. |
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1196
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies |
Orca Amsel
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
309
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Hi All-
- Find you your preferred selection of game mode
- Reduce the network latency between you and the server
- Reduce the waiting time it takes to find a battle
- Reduce the number of partially filled battles
- Reduce how often you join a battle already in progress
None of these things work and on top of that now some squad members are not deploying to the battles. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men.
459
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Why don't I get the game mode I selected? You can now choose multiple game modes however this will not always gaurentee you get one of those modes. The selection is used in 2 ways, we first build groups of players who have similar preferences of game mode, region and ranking. The second step is to use everyone's preferences to perform a vote on which mode to play. We will be tuning how effectively this works over the coming days so you should see some improvement in how often you get your selected modes.
Any attempt to put me into Domination will equal me quitting match immediately, just an FYI. Broken game mode is broken. Not letting us select that we never want to get forced into it is bad.
Also: This is one of those things that should have been clear IN THE PATCH NOTES, CCP. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
829
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have not played it yet but I can tell you for certain that I have players that do not like to play ambush. If you match making is putting them into such maps, they are going to be very unhappy. They need to be filters, not votes. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1349
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 14:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies
Why is this still a thing? What does it look at all of your 30 possible fits to see what you'd fight with? Or your most popular fit? Or what your skills would allow? Are you then forced to only use basic? And then basic/STD suits or weapons too? What if you are a vehicle user, but you have basic suits and ADV vehicles? Can you only take ADV vehicles in? |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men.
462
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Brush Master wrote:I have not played it yet but I can tell you for certain that I have players that do not like to play ambush. If you match making is putting them into such maps, they are going to be very unhappy. They need to be filters, not votes.
Most players will be playing nothing but Ambush this week due to the event. This will both screw any attempt by CCP to gauge matchmaking stats, and will force a lot of players who don't want to, into Ambush.
Putting an event that favors Ambush together with releasing a new matchmaking system is rampant lack of forethought. But it seems lack of forethought is a running trend at CCP right now. The moment they announce something, a player is immediately able to point out something they should have thought of long before launch. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1349
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brush Master wrote:I have not played it yet but I can tell you for certain that I have players that do not like to play ambush. If you match making is putting them into such maps, they are going to be very unhappy. They need to be filters, not votes.
In this case there should be a couple more toggles.
Prefer faster queue OR prefer 'fairer queue'. One would sacrifice the priority of your selections to get you in a match ASAP, it may not be very fair for you, however. Fairer, would give your vote for match type a higher priority, but you may wait significantly longer to play. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
673
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Why don't I get the game mode I selected? You can now choose multiple game modes however this will not always gaurentee you get one of those modes. The selection is used in 2 ways, we first build groups of players who have similar preferences of game mode, region and ranking. The second step is to use everyone's preferences to perform a vote on which mode to play. We will be tuning how effectively this works over the coming days so you should see some improvement in how often you get your selected modes. Any attempt to put me into Domination will equal me quitting match immediately, just an FYI. Broken game mode is broken. Not letting us select that we never want to get forced into it is bad. Also: This is one of those things that should have been clear IN THE PATCH NOTES, CCP.
Exactly, is this the real life?
I appreciate the new matchmaking, but I thought we were still going to get to, y'know, choose what we want to effing play. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1350
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
My guess is that if it is a voting system, and you squad with members that are all selecting the same mode you are, then you are 5x more likely to get the same game mode. You INCREASE your liklihood to play what you want when you squad.
To suggest that all of you dumb PROto snipers with your 10.0 KDR should be put into skirmish matches just because you are queuing in them is dumb. |
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Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1350
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
What if we got a bit of a 'hardship pay' bonus for being put into a different match? |
Spartan -047
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well ill go ahead and say first post ever! Love this game!
Now my two cents, Used to click on domination and be in a game in less then 20 seconds. I liked that.
Now tho I go into this confusing screen where I can't even figure out how to play my favorite game type. It's too complicated and you don't explain how to use it. If I just joined this dust 514 today I wouldn't even know which button to click. Although I haven't started a new profile in the last 3 hours and you might explain it to new players but for anyone not on the forum it doesn't tell you where anyone can go to do anything.
I know ccp wants feedback from all players new and old |
Brush Master
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
830
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Brush Master wrote:I have not played it yet but I can tell you for certain that I have players that do not like to play ambush. If you match making is putting them into such maps, they are going to be very unhappy. They need to be filters, not votes. In this case there should be a couple more toggles. Prefer faster queue OR prefer 'fairer queue'. One would sacrifice the priority of your selections to get you in a match ASAP, it may not be very fair for you, however. Fairer, would give your vote for match type a higher priority, but you may wait significantly longer to play.
Quick Battle mode where it just dumps you in where ever and then an advance filter down battles I want in option sounds perfect.
What they need to do is just drop squads into the war barge and increase war barge time and allow people to invite players into the battle if there are open spots. You would then see in chat rooms skirmish barge 2 spots open, x for invites, etc. Players could fill their own games pretty fast. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1351
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
The main point is, though, gentlemen is that you can't please everyone all the time. Fast AND fair is difficult to do for all folks. |
Brush Master
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
834
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:The main point is, though, gentlemen is that you can't please everyone all the time. Fast AND fair is difficult to do for all folks.
This is more than that though. Not getting the game mode you want to play will just be bad and I want to stress that this could cause my corporation members to login even less or even quit all together. Why why this not in patch notes ahead of time? |
Starfire Revo
G I A N T EoN.
103
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leither Yiltron wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Nullarbor wrote:Why don't I get the game mode I selected? You can now choose multiple game modes however this will not always gaurentee you get one of those modes. The selection is used in 2 ways, we first build groups of players who have similar preferences of game mode, region and ranking. The second step is to use everyone's preferences to perform a vote on which mode to play. We will be tuning how effectively this works over the coming days so you should see some improvement in how often you get your selected modes. Any attempt to put me into Domination will equal me quitting match immediately, just an FYI. Broken game mode is broken. Not letting us select that we never want to get forced into it is bad. Also: This is one of those things that should have been clear IN THE PATCH NOTES, CCP. Exactly, is this the real life? I appreciate the new matchmaking, but I thought we were still going to get to, y'know, choose what we want to effing play.
What's even worse about this is that because faction warfare is always Skirmish, people who wanted that game mode will swarm over to that. Given the fact that FW doesn't (or I hope doesn't) have any kind of ranking, you'll be forcing those people to go without the new ranked matchmaking you just provided. Normal matchmaking will barely get any Skirmish matches and FW will be full of people who don't care about FW. |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
591
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Posted - 2013.09.03 14:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's quite the change (and I suspect counter intuitive) for your battle type preferences to be mere 'votes' and not absolute filters. No other FPS game would put you into a game type that you didn't explicitly choose or permission as allowed.
They even go as far to allow you to exclude certain maps.
Nullarbor, I do applaud the effort you've put into giving us a new matchmaking system - but votes over filters seems like such an odd choice. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1196
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 14:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies Why is this still a thing? What does it look at all of your 30 possible fits to see what you'd fight with? Or your most popular fit? Or what your skills would allow? Are you then forced to only use basic? And then basic/STD suits or weapons too? What if you are a vehicle user, but you have basic suits and ADV vehicles? Can you only take ADV vehicles in?
Its not hard
Nothing over meta level 3, anything on your fit over meta level 3 is invalid in the match for basic vs basic
I said for example, so basics vs basic, adv vs adv, proto bs proto and basic/adv/proto is by meta level
How is it so hard to understand? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2945
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 14:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Queuing for the gamemodes I like and being randomly thrown in the gamemode I despise is terrible. |
Raiff Basdek
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
19
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
OK, there's a lot of good in the new patch.
However, I'm one of the people that really doesn't like Ambush. Yesterday, I queue for dom, I get a match in under a minute. Today I queue, I wait roughly 6 minutes at any given time, and then get stuck in an ambush. Now, as far as I can tell, this change was to try and stop the pub stomping that was going on. I'm not a particularly high sp character, being around 4.8 mill at the moment. However, I seemed to be able to do ok in matches. If the issue is with the people sub 2 mill getting repeatedly killed, then the answer lies in extending the academy period, with an option to come out of it if you want, not in changing to what seems to be a mildly broken system to match players. In addition, myself and a few corp mates are also noticing that once you've had your 6 min+ queue to get stuck in a match type you didn't want to play, you're finding very unbalanced teams. ie 3 vs 8, 6 vs 15, 4 vs 15. These numbers are not made up, this is what we experienced. |
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Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
589
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies Why is this still a thing? What does it look at all of your 30 possible fits to see what you'd fight with? Or your most popular fit? Or what your skills would allow? Are you then forced to only use basic? And then basic/STD suits or weapons too? What if you are a vehicle user, but you have basic suits and ADV vehicles? Can you only take ADV vehicles in? Its not hard Nothing over meta level 3, anything on your fit over meta level 3 is invalid in the match for basic vs basic I said for example, so basics vs basic, adv vs adv, proto bs proto and basic/adv/proto is by meta level How is it so hard to understand?
so what your saying is theres no more reason to skill into proto anything since you can just use basic forever.
what your proposing is not only technically difficult to obtain but terrible for the health of teh game as it pretty much negates the need to skill into anything, this has been discussed to death and has been agreed apon by nearly every single person to be a bad bad bad bad idea |
Taeryn Frost
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Queuing for the gamemodes I like and being randomly thrown in the gamemode I despise is terrible.
I guess I've gotten used to that since they merged Ambush and OMS. Since its throwing me in domination now I'm easing my way into it, though its still not my preferred game mode.
I'll wait and see if increased player numbers helps alleviate some of the pain. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1097
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Orca Amsel wrote:Do you guys even test these things before you give it to us?
Hard to test a big system like that unless they spend many engineer hours creating some sort of simulator. We'll just have to endure a few days of them tweaking the parameters while they dial it in. I'd rather provide live testing and tuning than waste engineering time that could be spent creating game content.
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InsidiousN
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
147
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Again, I reiterate the point I've been trying to get across for months now: CCP, you have to take this game offline in order to fully fix it. DUST514 has far too many problems with its core to be able to make progress towards the game we all want and expected with live updates. Live updates work perfectly to make a great game better, but take a below average game and dig its hole deeper. No matter how painful it would be in the short-term, taking DUST offline in order to fix it is the best long-term strategy.
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Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
594
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
InsidiousN wrote:Again, I reiterate the point I've been trying to get across for months now: CCP, you have to take this game offline in order to fully fix it. DUST514 has far too many problems with its core to be able to make progress towards the game we all want and expected with live updates. Live updates work perfectly to make a great game better, but take a below average game and dig its hole deeper. No matter how painful it would be in the short-term, taking DUST offline in order to fix it is the best long-term strategy.
Armchair-CEO, best-CEO. |
Elles Wils
Shaolin Legacy Preatoriani
13
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Why don't I get the game mode I selected? ... We will be tuning how effectively this works over the coming days so you should see some improvement in how often you get your selected modes.
Tuning? I'm sure what you did want to say was 'fixing this mistake', right?
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1196
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies Why is this still a thing? What does it look at all of your 30 possible fits to see what you'd fight with? Or your most popular fit? Or what your skills would allow? Are you then forced to only use basic? And then basic/STD suits or weapons too? What if you are a vehicle user, but you have basic suits and ADV vehicles? Can you only take ADV vehicles in? Its not hard Nothing over meta level 3, anything on your fit over meta level 3 is invalid in the match for basic vs basic I said for example, so basics vs basic, adv vs adv, proto bs proto and basic/adv/proto is by meta level How is it so hard to understand? so what your saying is theres no more reason to skill into proto anything since you can just use basic forever. what your proposing is not only technically difficult to obtain but terrible for the health of teh game as it pretty much negates the need to skill into anything, this has been discussed to death and has been agreed apon by nearly every single person to be a bad bad bad bad idea
Wrong because you can take proto into a proto match
Plus PC is always proto vs proto
Wrong again, how is it so hard to understand? |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1531
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies
This wouldn't work - I have fittings ranging from militia to proto - and use them all depending on what I want. By your method, I would always be in matches against proto even when I wanted to run militia for a while. |
Maffia- Thug
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
63
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Orca Amsel wrote:Do you guys even test these things before you give it to us? Hard to test a big system like that unless they spend many engineer hours creating some sort of simulator. We'll just have to endure a few days of them tweaking the parameters while they dial it in. I'd rather provide live testing and tuning than waste engineering time that could be spent creating game content.
Well said sir. Although, most gamers stand points, especially one's that knows nothing nor cares about coding, they just want it to work first time around. I understand their POV but I also understand the coders POV as well.
You sir, have said all of this in one simple paragraph. KUDOS!! |
Absolute Idiom II
No Free Pass
594
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Posted - 2013.09.03 15:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:If you did matchmaking by gear it would have been simpler tbh
Basic vs basic for example
Just my 2 pennies This wouldn't work - I have fittings ranging from militia to proto - and use them all depending on what I want. By your method, I would always be in matches against proto even when I wanted to run militia for a while.
He hasn't communicated his idea well. but it seems fairly obvious you'd choose 2 things when looking for a matchs:
Battle Type: *Ambush *Skirmish *Domination
Battle Tier *Basic *Adv *Proto
So if you enter a Basic-only match then you better have fits that are full basic, otherwise you won't have anything to choose from. With Adv you can have either basic or adv, but no proto. And for Proto: anything goes.
That said, I don't really agree with the concept since there are several-many skills which boost weapon damage, hitpoints and suit PG/CPU which would still allow high SP players to stomp in basic-only matches. And we're back to square one again.
Instead, it makes sense to be able to be matched with your peers in terms of actual battle performance as CCP are trying to implement. |
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