I thought that only True Amarrs were God's chosen people and everyone else was to be subjugate and be used to do the Empire's biding. But then again I am but a heathen. True Adamance, your faith is to be interpreted as you see fit. But do not expect me to stand idle while you try to impose it to others forcefully.

The Minmatar Republic is not being used in any way. If the Republic seeks help from the Federation why should it be denied?
I should always advocate for freedom and liberty. The Minmatar a capable of deciding their nation's fate without requiring "a firm hand".

Mr. Buelle:

With all respect to Tempar Crusader Ouryon, he does tend to draw the word "heretic" maybe a bit quickly. My impression is that he's spent pretty much all his life surrounded by other believers, so his first impulse upon encountering a blasphemous sort is to think, "heretic." After all, in a highly religious society such as the Empire, we heathens are relatively thin on the ground.

As for your god of ISK and war, I think-- I hope-- that what you're actually saying is that you see no real divinity in this world. There's a lot of despair, come to think of it, reflected even in the suggestion, half-joking or not, that we should worship these things that superficially define us.

What an empty existence that would be....

I do not worship war nor money nor death. It was all in jest. However I understand that to survive we must earn ISK and to earn it we must fight, and die. So by me saying that my god is War and ISK is me trying to reason with him that I do not believe in any god that doesn't provide. War provides me ISK and ISK provides me with my housing, my weapons, my dropsuits, food and many other things that would be otherwise out of my reach. This is the reality that I have to face and I have no need to put my hopes in a God that does not show his/herself to me nor provides for me.

Then you came of as lacking reason.

To jest at ones devoutly held belief is not reasonable, it is beneath you, and only sullies you name.

And why should a God show itself. The purpose of the Faith is to believe, not to know for a certainty. Its is my Faith that armours me from doubt so that I do not fear the darkness of New Eden, nor do I know the uncertainties that the heathens do.

I jest at everything. It keeps me from going off the deep end and murdering mortals.

As if I needed another reason to hunt you.

I welcome the challenge

The heretic is the unrepentant soul who does not believe Ms Ryeon.

This is an absolute. This man told me to my face that he blasphemes against my God. Heretic is an apt label.

I do not worship war nor money nor death. It was all in jest. However I understand that to survive we must earn ISK and to earn it we must fight, and die. So by me saying that my god is War and ISK is me trying to reason with him that I do not believe in any god that doesn't provide. War provides me ISK and ISK provides me with my housing, my weapons, my dropsuits, food and many other things that would be otherwise out of my reach. This is the reality that I have to face and I have no need to put my hopes in a God that does not show his/herself to me nor provides for me.

Templar Crusader, respectfully, I, too, have been known to make some pointed remarks about the Amarrian deity, or any thinking being that would create this universe.

This world we live in erodes innocence, sneers at high ideals, and is utterly indifferent to justice. While I see this universe as a thing of wonder and beauty, it is also so much a thing of pain for the sentient and, worse, sapient beings that dwell in it that any sapient god responsible for its creation would be a thing of horror.

The name of the Angel Cartel is, to my mind, less ironic than grimly appropriate: mercenary cutthroats, hijackers and drug smugglers would make apt messengers for the god of this world.

For all this, and despite all the dark or blasphemous things I may have to say about your god, or any god seeking the title of "creator," I cannot fairly be described as a heretic in your faith because my system of belief is entirely different from yours. I do not represent a corruption of your faith because I share somewhere between very few and absolutely none of its precepts.

That's what a heathen is, an outsider and unbeliever. We do not become heretics merely by making unflattering remarks about your faith, or there would be few who do not already believe who were capable of being saved. To think otherwise is to make no distinction between a Sani cultist and a Gallentean atheist; both will mock your faith, but only the Sani represents a corruption of it. The Gallentean's beliefs originate elsewhere entirely.

You should not treat mortals like playthings.

Who says I do? So what I like to mess around with some Matari dancers every now and then or get into fights at the pub. But it is all in good fun. Sure sometimes the fights do get a bit out of hand, but afterwards we drink together like real men. It is how I make myself feel alive. And no religion or God or dogma has ever given me that same satisfaction.

You take yourself way to seriously Templar, how bout you come down to the strip club with me.

My experiences with Clubs are not good ones. Last time some psychopathic Gallentean took a hostage and almost killed Satja.....

((No seriously it happened RP like))

Not to mention it would violate the oaths I took.... not to mention be morally reprehensible.... fun is one thing... duty is another. Rather reluctantly I have to refuse.

Well that Gallentean is no brother of mine, why ruin a good strip club. Come on mate, we will just have a few beers you don't even have to look at any of the very VERY under-dressed women.

If that were what you actually intended, you could just take him out drinking.

Ah, spirits ... men are men from Athra to Luminaire, and fools by extension, but Gallente display it more than most. I only need walk through one of your stations to know why the Caldari seceded.

Well that Gallentean is no brother of mine, why ruin a good strip club. Come on mate, we will just have a few beers you don't even have to look at any of the very VERY under-dressed women.

Tempting as that is I am sure Kador has other plans at the Gymnasium with me.

Don't get me started on the Caldari succession. In will admit thought, in my opinion, the bombardment and occupation of Caldari Prime was a bit unnecessary. Instead we should of sought out the Caldari terrorists that were responsible for the death of millions of Gallentean civilians.

I am, however, in no way authorized to apologize on behalf of my government.

Rights and freedom are not anomalies, they are the very heart of every society and without rights or freedom we become anything but pawns to those who subjugate us.
It was the Empire's arrogance that lead to humiliating loss to the Jove.

Even though the Empire may never collapse it will change if it is to have a place in this Modern Era.

Actually you are incorrect, prior to the attack The Amarr were very ready & quite possibly could've won. As The Amarr weren't playing & brought they're best literally. However The Jove value information highly & got into The Amarr battle information regarding the attack The Jove found out every attack, who was with who, they're skill set, how they were squaded, reactions & first attack, each squads goal, & literally everything weeks if not months before the ones launching & doing the attack even got the plans & orders themselves The Jove prepared & the second The Amarr came it was a extremely well prepared planned trap/defence/counter-attack by The Jove leading to a very easy win for them & The Amarr basically enetered a fast agreement that they wouldn't attack The Jove & The Jove basically replied sure np whatever & went about they're business. To this date not 1 race has attacked The Jove yet.

[quote=True Adamance][quote=Tyrionn Callazar][quote=True Adamance]
Whilst certainly there is some ignorance and perhaps even corruption within the Federation, that isn't necessarily why people support it. Of course there are flaws - Every society has its flaws, yours included. That's the way of things.

The Federation is about people making their own way through life, free of significant state obligation or major religious influence. You can certainly choose to see it as an 'ignorant and corrupted society', as there's some truth in that, but it's hardly fair to dismiss the only truly free society in New Eden as simply that. I'd also like to know why you consider our values of freedom hypocritical. Do you mean to say we're figuratively slaves to the political system?

I do find much of the extremism that my fellow Gallenteans tend to exhibit rather tiresome though. Patriotic they may be, but blind verbal attacks against other empires only reinforces the sad perception of us as an 'ignorant' society.

That and the scary doomsday beam that took out a battleship in one shot. No Empire had that capability at the time. If that is what they were willing to show, or at least had back then, then an attacker would have to consider what they have developed since.

To answer that 1 question as already spoken all governments if not realigions are somewhat corrupt or previously corrupt in history or both or off & on. But though The Gallente has multiple good points some of it you stated but some of it's higher up people are indeed corrupt & people if not both Gallente & Minmitar question if The Federation is just using The Minmitar ,most recently in news a certain Senator of Gallente proclaimed Minmitar possibly "untrustworthy" this relates to A Minmitar Brutus being in jail for quote by the Minmitar "defending himself" & killed multiple Gallente people The Federation wouldn't release him so minmitar showed up in Gallente space in Dregnaughts & a battle occured & I think theirs more about (this is if i'm accurate about this news)

Like it says I use to be a Minmatar supporter how because I personally could relate but I was soon reborn as a pure Amarrian/Kameira clone to send death to all non-believers but I still hold true to my Minmatar ways.

So you've adopted the faith of your slave-master. Eat up dog, these boot heels won't lick themselves.

I'm afraid that's not quite correct.

The reason the Republic attacked was not because of the Brutor student (who was released without charge) but because of a racially motivated mass murderer called Gerne Broteau. He shot and killed a number of people at a Minmatar culture festival on Luminaire.

The Federation tried him. As a Gallente citizen committing crimes primarily against Gallente citizens in Gallente sovereign space, they believed they had every right to - and quite possibly they did. However, the Republic demanded custody of the man, and when he was not handed over they attacked with their dreadnoughts.

And as for the higher-ups being corrupt - As I said, the Federation is based on an ideal. That ideal is not a reality - we can only strive to be closer to that ideal. Nobody is truly perfect. As much as the Amarrians claim to be so, they aren't either. I would bet all of my ISK that there is significant corruption in the Empire. There is also corruption in the Caldari State, as evidenced by Tibus Heth.

So you've adopted the faith of your slave-master. Eat up dog, these boot heels won't lick themselves.

[quote=Jonny D Buelle][quote=Yun Hee Ryeon]Mr. Buelle:

And why should a God show itself. The purpose of the Faith is to believe, not to know for a certainty. Its is my Faith that armours me from doubt so that I do not fear the darkness of New Eden, nor do I know the uncertainties that the heathens do.

Their is wisdom to be seen in that statement.