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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.09.06 23:58:00 -
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Tyrionn Callazar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Tyrionn Callazar wrote:There is a thin line between being faithful and blinding fanaticism.
If you fight for ISK or for faith, you should tread either path carefully. Neither is a bad thing if applied correctly to a scenario. I would rather be blind than some hedonistic Gallentean lap dog of the Senate spouting his hypocritical ideals of freedom and liberty. You My friend live by false ideals, such as that of being superior than others, this will be de down fall of the Empire because it is just a matter of time before others just like the Minmatar rise against the oppression of the Empire. You dare call members of the Federation dogs? When you and your Amarr counter parts are the ones that do the Empire's bidding without questioning it and do so happily. Members of the Empire are the true slaves. no better than dogs.
The Empire has existed in more or less its current form for thousands of years, soldier. No other of the four great powers can say as much.
If it were just a "matter of time," the time should long since have come and gone. Even the Minmatar uprising required not one, but two major outside actors to provide the opportunity: the Jove at Vak'Atioth and the Gallente who armed the Matari.
The stability of the Empire is a great merit, but a sad truth for those who would prefer to evade its control: once under its sway, few cultures have pulled free.
"Rights" and "freedoms" are historical anomalies, soldier. Humanity has spent most of its history under one autocratic system or another. It remains to be seen whether democracy is robust enough to withstand the trials of history, but Amarrian feudalism has already stood the test of time long enough that it is foolish to expect it to collapse under its own weight. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.09.07 16:27:00 -
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Tyrionn Callazar wrote:Rights and freedom are not anomalies, they are the very heart of every society and without rights or freedom we become anything but pawns to those who subjugate us.
It was the Empire's arrogance that lead to humiliating loss to the Jove.
Even though the Empire may never collapse it will change if it is to have a place in this Modern Era.
Let me clarify my terminology a little, soldier.
A "right," in this context, is not something granted by law, but by the universe. Legal rights do exist in every society (they are the latitude of action an individual legally possesses). A right in that context is reduced to "what you are allowed to do." It's the same for a freedom.
It is only the Gallente who regard certain rights as inherent, inviolable, and sacred. The idea that there are rights that can never be taken away-- that is a historical anomaly.
Is that the sort of right you were talking about? Otherwise, "rights" are as ubiquitous as "money," and their existence says about as much about the nature of a society (to wit, that it is a society with some minimal level of sophistication).
Most of us are relatively comfortable with the idea that rights are artifacts of the mind, something we cooked up for ourselves rather than anything "real." They can be broad, they can be narrow-- either way can work in the short term. The experiment is whether you can build a society to stand the test of ages by effectively making Freedom your god and Rights its divine agents, combining these into a national religion. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.09.07 19:59:00 -
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Tyrionn Callazar wrote:It might be so, our society does uphold certain rights and freedom above everything and will fight fiercely for them. For outsiders it might be seen as a far fetched ideal. For you it might be seen as an anomaly and as somewhat unnatural.
Frankly, I don't believe anything can withstand the test of time. not even the Federation, but its presence will remain.
A thoughtful answer, Mr. Callazar.
I do understand where you might come to think I was criticizing the Gallentean approach as unnatural, but the real issue is more that it's aggressive. Like the Amarr, the Gallente seem to feel that they have found a great truth that they have a sacred duty to share with everyone.
Only, not everyone worships the god Freedom, and not everyone wants to. We have our own histories, faiths, and cultural outlooks on the universe that are inconsistent with Gallentean-style individualism. That there might be valid reasons for not wishing to embrace your faith is an understanding the Federation has been reluctant or unable to accept, and so our cultures inevitably clash.
As it is with the Amarr, faith calls you to spread your truth. As it is with the Amarr, the rest of us will fight to keep our own truths.
It is ironic, but your faith in the god Freedom makes you conquerors.
I do not blame the Gallente for their beliefs-- as with the Amarr, you largely seem to do what you think is right. It is just that, because my own society disagrees with you about what is right (or what rights are, as the case may be), we have chosen to resist.
As a defender of that civilization, it is my place and role to protect my own home and way of life with violence when need be. And it seems that there is indeed a need.
It is nothing personal, soldier; nor is it even really a criticism of the Gallentean path, but I cannot allow that path to be extended through my home. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.09.08 00:40:00 -
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Tyrionn Callazar wrote:The conflict between the Federation and the Caldari State is much more complex and does require some thought. For both sides have reason to fight and to blame for the conflict escalation and attrition between both sides. I do not agree with some of the instances taken by my government towards Caldari State. However I cannot stand idle while it opposes a treat to the Federation and its citizens.
I also would not describe my belief in what the Gallente society stands for as a faith, we don not worship Freedom, we admire and respect it. As soldiers, we must fight for what we believe in and defend it at all costs. Because war is what we know.
Even with our differences I know when I meet a worthy adversary, if we meet in the battlefield I shall fight you with honour!
An honorable invitation, Mr. Callazar; I should like to be able to take you up on it.
Sadly, while we may, indeed meet, our senses of "honor" may differ somewhat. As a scout, a straight fight (with great respect to those who engage in them) is the very last thing I wish to become involved in. Trickery and foul play are my tools-- my work is more remote explosive traps and nova knives than what most soldiers think of as honorable warfare.
As a scout, my credo is simple: to do the job, and do it efficiently.
That being so, in the event that we do meet on the field, you would honor me most by fighting with all of your cunning and ingenuity. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.29 20:21:00 -
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Mr. Buelle:
With all respect to Tempar Crusader Ouryon, he does tend to draw the word "heretic" maybe a bit quickly. My impression is that he's spent pretty much all his life surrounded by other believers, so his first impulse upon encountering a blasphemous sort is to think, "heretic." After all, in a highly religious society such as the Empire, we heathens are relatively thin on the ground.
As for your god of ISK and war, I think-- I hope-- that what you're actually saying is that you see no real divinity in this world. There's a lot of despair, come to think of it, reflected even in the suggestion, half-joking or not, that we should worship these things that superficially define us.
What an empty existence that would be.... |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.29 22:57:00 -
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True Adamance wrote:The heretic is the unrepentant soul who does not believe Ms Ryeon.
This is an absolute. This man told me to my face that he blasphemes against my God. Heretic is an apt label.
Templar Crusader, respectfully, I, too, have been known to make some pointed remarks about the Amarrian deity, or any thinking being that would create this universe.
This world we live in erodes innocence, sneers at high ideals, and is utterly indifferent to justice. While I see this universe as a thing of wonder and beauty, it is also so much a thing of pain for the sentient and, worse, sapient beings that dwell in it that any sapient god responsible for its creation would be a thing of horror.
The name of the Angel Cartel is, to my mind, less ironic than grimly appropriate: mercenary cutthroats, hijackers and drug smugglers would make apt messengers for the god of this world.
For all this, and despite all the dark or blasphemous things I may have to say about your god, or any god seeking the title of "creator," I cannot fairly be described as a heretic in your faith because my system of belief is entirely different from yours. I do not represent a corruption of your faith because I share somewhere between very few and absolutely none of its precepts.
That's what a heathen is, an outsider and unbeliever. We do not become heretics merely by making unflattering remarks about your faith, or there would be few who do not already believe who were capable of being saved. To think otherwise is to make no distinction between a Sani cultist and a Gallentean atheist; both will mock your faith, but only the Sani represents a corruption of it. The Gallentean's beliefs originate elsewhere entirely.
Jonny D Buelle wrote:I do not worship war nor money nor death. It was all in jest. However I understand that to survive we must earn ISK and to earn it we must fight, and die. So by me saying that my god is War and ISK is me trying to reason with him that I do not believe in any god that doesn't provide. War provides me ISK and ISK provides me with my housing, my weapons, my dropsuits, food and many other things that would be otherwise out of my reach. This is the reality that I have to face and I have no need to put my hopes in a God that does not show his/herself to me nor provides for me.
... Making you, apparently, the Gallentean atheist I mention above.
In fairness, of course, any creator god would have provided us ISK, housing, dropsuits, food, and many other things.
Oxygen, for example.
Also, murder, rapine, starvation, degenerative disease, resentment, disillusionment, betrayal by and of friends and loved ones, and the sensation of your nanites going haywire and starting to digest your organs for you after you've been downed with a 'Toxin' weapon. Oh, and boosters.The arbitrary and meaningless deaths of children. Also, self-serving pseudo-immortals like us.
Those last and a long list of related concepts are my quibble with any creator deity who claims to want and deserve our worship.
In any case, I'd rather think that the universe doesn't think of us at all than that some sapient being is behind all that life has to offer. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.30 05:33:00 -
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Jonny D Buelle wrote:Well that Gallentean is no brother of mine, why ruin a good strip club. Come on mate, we will just have a few beers you don't even have to look at any of the very VERY under-dressed women.
If that were what you actually intended, you could just take him out drinking.
Ah, spirits ... men are men from Athra to Luminaire, and fools by extension, but Gallente display it more than most. I only need walk through one of your stations to know why the Caldari seceded. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative
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Posted - 2013.10.30 14:08:00 -
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Jonny D Buelle wrote:Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:Jonny D Buelle wrote:Well that Gallentean is no brother of mine, why ruin a good strip club. Come on mate, we will just have a few beers you don't even have to look at any of the very VERY under-dressed women. If that were what you actually intended, you could just take him out drinking. Ah, spirits ... men are men from Athra to Luminaire, and fools by extension, but Gallente display it more than most. I only need walk through one of your stations to know why the Caldari seceded. Don't get me started on the Caldari succession. In will admit thought, in my opinion, the bombardment and occupation of Caldari Prime was a bit unnecessary. Instead we should of sought out the Caldari terrorists that were responsible for the death of millions of Gallentean civilians. I am, however, in no way authorized to apologize on behalf of my government.
There was a lot more to it than a round of escalating retaliation, Mr. Buelle; that was really just the last dregs of a cup that had been bitter from the first sip.
Your people uplifted the Caldari, yes, providing hundreds of years of technological advancement in just a few decades, through an entity called the Cultural Deliverance Society (CDS). A proud people with an ancient culture who had survived and endured a harsh homeworld spent the next five hundred years living in the shadow of a coddled people born to a garden world. They've never really gotten over that.
What I was actually getting at, though, is that the Caldari and Gallentean cultures have never mixed well. The Caldari are private where the Gallente are exhibitionist, and practical and utilitarian where the Gallente are flashy and garish. This may partly be an outright reaction against Gallentean culture, but that ongoing rejection of all things Gallente would never have occurred had the rift not existed from the start.
Strip clubs do exist in the State, though it's not the sort of thing people will admit to attending, in public or otherwise. As with most such matters, they are kept out of sight, even if everybody knows about them. The difference is the flagrancy. Among the Caldari, putting one's decadence on display is bad form. |
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