I made a thread on the same topic but this one is better +1

Only thing I would add is that this isn't really an FEC vs EON issue. I'm sure EON want good fights as well, but put risk free profit in front of a corp and they'll take it. CCP just need to tweak the ISK numbers so people have to fight for their ISKies.

My question is this.

What does it matter? 27%? What like 65 districts? So basically you could play the game like there's 180 districts. Is 180 enough for this broken dying game?

Yes.

180 districts even if they choose to lock up and burnout whoever they have sitting on the map everyday is more than enough for 60 corps to fight over.

I don't even know 50 corps that can field 16 man teams. Maybe 40 total.

My question is this.

What does it matter? 27%? What like 65 districts? So basically you could play the game like there's 180 districts. Is 180 enough for this broken dying game?

Yes.

180 districts even if they choose to lock up and burnout whoever they have sitting on the map everyday is more than enough for 60 corps to fight over.

I don't even know 50 corps that can field 16 man teams. Maybe 40 total.

I can name quite a few like Eon, Cronos, STB, LoI, Top Men, and a few others, but not sure you might be wrong and there could be 100 ready I don't know. But this game does seem to be dying.

While I can't say anything concrete yet, Team True Grit are doing things regarding this issue. Wonderful things.

But before you ask, no I don't have a timeline on when it will be added. But it is something we're aware of and working towards squishing.

While I can't say anything concrete yet, Team True Grit are doing things regarding this issue. Wonderful things.

But before you ask, no I don't have a timeline on when it will be added. But it is something we're aware of and working towards squishing.

I'm pretty sure that by self blocking they are forced to have a production rate that is 50% to 75% as efficient as just sitting on their districts defending against nobody. Still its probably safer than not 'failblocking'.

Whatever 'fix' happens it will be hard for it not to benefit an alt corp. I have thought a bit about this, and am having a tough time coming up with something that wouldn't help alts.

CCP has stated that they want to get around having clones be the thing that makes isk for districts. This is the main reason why this mechanic is taking place atm.

I like the idea of a raiding system that can be done regardless of whether a district is locked. Really the core problem is that the maintenance cost of an empire doesn't scale like it should.

As a leader within and spokesman for the FEC, a coalition of more than 40 corporations. I represent a large portion of the community. Having spoken with all the leaders of the FEC we see this as an exploit in Planetary Conquest and is pushing the current war to a stalemate as over 27% of Molden Heath is locked out of gameplay for the pure and sole purpose of greed. The economic imbalance and loss of gameplay is hurting this game. What is CCPGÇÖs view on this? We would like to know as soon as possible. Does CCP see this as an exploit or does CCP feel this is working as intended. With the release and upcoming release of new games and consoles changes will be needed soon in order to prevent more players form abandoning the game altogether.

Lastly, request the current clone packs be increased to 150 clones at 45 million and reducing the defending district reinforcement to 1.

Thanks for your time,

NPRZ

Director Subdreddit
FEC Leadership

There have been some wonderful ideas. Mind you, I don't want to spoil any surprises that might come along, so that's all I'll say for now.

This is an exploit of game mechanics. +1 to the thread. I hope it gets addressed soon.

your proposal? hand everything over. charity, be a pal, we don't have any land, but we have a ton of ISk that we have thrown at you for over a week, we have gotten stomped, embarrassed and quite simply outplayed on the battlefield over and over. Even stacking EVERY timer they have couldn't net us but 1 district... 1 DISTRICT!

You say greed? We have a meeting, we are all in agreement we want to end things and restore balance to molden heath. All sides agree, INCLUDING those 27% shareholders (33% at the beginning of the day yesterday btw)

your proposal? hand everything over. charity, be a pal, we don't have any land, but we have a ton of ISk that we have thrown at you for over a week, we have gotten stomped, embarrassed and quite simply outplayed on the battlefield over and over. Even stacking EVERY timer they have couldn't net us but 1 district... 1 DISTRICT!

Ok rant over... I told you last night just like I'm saying now. I am all for relinquishing lands, but provide me a reason, honestly, why I should just hand it over when my guys have dedicated a LOT of effort over the past 2 months to acquire it? WE have alarm clocked several people trying to hide behind timers, We have played relentlessly attacking everyone we could. Many corps put up a good fight, and received districts afterward, thus being no net gain. We EARNED our land, and now you try to take it from us.

Admirable, NOW. the entire galaxy sat back for 2 months and did not do a thing except QQ and 'leave' PC.

Now that you have gained interest again you simply want me to give u the land we rightfully took?

not happening. I'm SELLING the land at reasonable prices. Feel free to ask anyone that actually knows, its the real deal.

your offer to end the war is what again?

O yea that's right "we will let you farm without attacking you for 2 days, then you give us the land"

I understand this is the start of negotiations, and there will be a lot of back and forth, but before you pull me into another chat and force me to spend my time there rather than playing with my friends, just don't waste my time.

you wanna QQ over 100m when that same land can recover that in 8 days? sorry. Better get rid of Donald Fehr and hire a better mitigator, cause you can call it greed all you want. I call it good business.

As for 'locking' down districts? you had your chance to attack and take them. You failed... miserably. yes there were many great battles, which we all look forward to more of in the future. But the fact is you brought everything you had, and we survived. Now we put things back on our terms cause none of you wanted to play fair.

and if I don't sell anymore.. o well. every district I sell I lose ISK if u think about it, and Im, fine with that. Id rather have diversity in PC for the good of the game. but simply handing over what we rightfully conquered? Not happening

melee glitch first.

I warned you guys this would happen when they dropped the price of clone packs.

Let this be a cautionary tale for True Grit about game design.

Did you think we were going to sit back and ignore the benefits of using it?

You say greed? We have a meeting, we are all in agreement we want to end things and restore balance to molden heath. All sides agree, INCLUDING those 27% shareholders (33% at the beginning of the day yesterday btw)

your proposal? hand everything over. charity, be a pal, we don't have any land, but we have a ton of ISk that we have thrown at you for over a week, we have gotten stomped, embarrassed and quite simply outplayed on the battlefield over and over. Even stacking EVERY timer they have couldn't net us but 1 district... 1 DISTRICT!

Ok rant over... I told you last night just like I'm saying now. I am all for relinquishing lands, but provide me a reason, honestly, why I should just hand it over when my guys have dedicated a LOT of effort over the past 2 months to acquire it? WE have alarm clocked several people trying to hide behind timers, We have played relentlessly attacking everyone we could. Many corps put up a good fight, and received districts afterward, thus being no net gain. We EARNED our land, and now you try to take it from us.

Admirable, NOW. the entire galaxy sat back for 2 months and did not do a thing except QQ and 'leave' PC.

Now that you have gained interest again you simply want me to give u the land we rightfully took?

not happening. I'm SELLING the land at reasonable prices. Feel free to ask anyone that actually knows, its the real deal.

your offer to end the war is what again?

O yea that's right "we will let you farm without attacking you for 2 days, then you give us the land"

I understand this is the start of negotiations, and there will be a lot of back and forth, but before you pull me into another chat and force me to spend my time there rather than playing with my friends, just don't waste my time.

you wanna QQ over 100m when that same land can recover that in 8 days? sorry. Better get rid of Donald Fehr and hire a better mitigator, cause you can call it greed all you want. I call it good business.

As for 'locking' down districts? you had your chance to attack and take them. You failed... miserably. yes there were many great battles, which we all look forward to more of in the future. But the fact is you brought everything you had, and we survived. Now we put things back on our terms cause none of you wanted to play fair.

and if I don't sell anymore.. o well. every district I sell I lose ISK if u think about it, and Im, fine with that. Id rather have diversity in PC for the good of the game. but simply handing over what we rightfully conquered? Not happening

melee glitch first.

100 billion lol that's funny.. definitely no math majors around here.

+1 for Ninja as this was a great post exposing the issues with current mechanics in PC and locking.

I wish there was a -1 for some of the monkeys throwing fecal matter.

But I suppose it does require widespread abuse or neglect before :metrics: kicks in and CCP take preventative action.

How are you going to give us meaningful feedback before you even try the changes? Or is your brain so awesome that you can look into the future? And while we are on the subject of feedback, guys, a few one liners and a catch word here and there really doesn't help. If you really care about improving the game, then please structure your feedback in a way that will:

1. List specific issues and the circumstance when it happened. We then put these in a weekly report and discuss them with the dev team on ways to address this.

2. Provide insight on why you think this is happening, if you can. Translation, explain as best as you can on how to reproduce the error/bug you encountered.

The patch notes are there to let players know what changes are coming so they can plan their gameplay accordingly, not so that people can theory craft before hand on how things will work before they actually try it.

The mechanic itself was exposed within 12 hours of Team True Grit posting their intended rules. This was back on 10th July, by myself. See my post above.

But I suppose it does require widespread abuse or neglect before :metrics: kicks in and CCP take preventative action.

generally speaking, yes good post, and informative to those with the wool over their eyes.

and also yes my apologies cause my responses to not belong in this area of the forum.

I just tire of stupidity and people who are unwilling to work together to come to an agreement, expecting everything to be put on a platter for them even though they couldn't take it for themselves.

the current predicament is the result of each and every corp on this game not having the guts to stand up and fight for months.

Allow me to retract some of that.. I don't mean 'every' in a literal sense, as there are some out there who did make an effort, and much respect to all of them. believe it or not I maintain a lot of respect for WTF as well.

you say this is all because of greed, and in some ways it certainly is. but know 1 thing... you guys are richer than we are. you say we 'farmed' all this time.. no.. we ATTACKED. u don't make isk if your districts aren't full. and ours have not all been full like, ever.

being on a constant warpath did not pad our wallets, it padded our assets. and now that we agree to divvy up our spoils, you slap us in the face by not even offering anything for our accomplishments?

hit me up when we can have a productive talk and start some negotiations

While I can't say anything concrete yet, Team True Grit are doing things regarding this issue. Wonderful things.

But before you ask, no I don't have a timeline on when it will be added. But it is something we're aware of and working towards squishing.

melee glitch first.

melee glitch first.

While I can't say anything concrete yet, Team True Grit are doing things regarding this issue. Wonderful things.

But before you ask, no I don't have a timeline on when it will be added. But it is something we're aware of and working towards squishing.

There have been some wonderful ideas. Mind you, I don't want to spoil any surprises that might come along, so that's all I'll say for now.

Crying to CCP because you can't fight your own war


Instant Classic

You say greed? We have a meeting, we are all in agreement we want to end things and restore balance to molden heath. All sides agree, INCLUDING those 27% shareholders (33% at the beginning of the day yesterday btw)

your proposal? hand everything over. charity, be a pal, we don't have any land, but we have a ton of ISk that we have thrown at you for over a week, we have gotten stomped, embarrassed and quite simply outplayed on the battlefield over and over. Even stacking EVERY timer they have couldn't net us but 1 district... 1 DISTRICT!

Ok rant over... I told you last night just like I'm saying now. I am all for relinquishing lands, but provide me a reason, honestly, why I should just hand it over when my guys have dedicated a LOT of effort over the past 2 months to acquire it? WE have alarm clocked several people trying to hide behind timers, We have played relentlessly attacking everyone we could. Many corps put up a good fight, and received districts afterward, thus being no net gain. We EARNED our land, and now you try to take it from us.

Admirable, NOW. the entire galaxy sat back for 2 months and did not do a thing except QQ and 'leave' PC.

Now that you have gained interest again you simply want me to give u the land we rightfully took?

not happening. I'm SELLING the land at reasonable prices. Feel free to ask anyone that actually knows, its the real deal.

your offer to end the war is what again?

O yea that's right "we will let you farm without attacking you for 2 days, then you give us the land"

I understand this is the start of negotiations, and there will be a lot of back and forth, but before you pull me into another chat and force me to spend my time there rather than playing with my friends, just don't waste my time.

you wanna QQ over 100m when that same land can recover that in 8 days? sorry. Better get rid of Donald Fehr and hire a better mitigator, cause you can call it greed all you want. I call it good business.

As for 'locking' down districts? you had your chance to attack and take them. You failed... miserably. yes there were many great battles, which we all look forward to more of in the future. But the fact is you brought everything you had, and we survived. Now we put things back on our terms cause none of you wanted to play fair.

and if I don't sell anymore.. o well. every district I sell I lose ISK if u think about it, and Im, fine with that. Id rather have diversity in PC for the good of the game. but simply handing over what we rightfully conquered? Not happening

My question is this.

What does it matter? 27%? What like 65 districts? So basically you could play the game like there's 180 districts. Is 180 enough for this broken dying game?

Yes.

180 districts even if they choose to lock up and burnout whoever they have sitting on the map everyday is more than enough for 60 corps to fight over.

I don't even know 50 corps that can field 16 man teams. Maybe 40 total.

generally speaking, yes good post, and informative to those with the wool over their eyes.

and also yes my apologies cause my responses to not belong in this area of the forum.

I just tire of stupidity and people who are unwilling to work together to come to an agreement, expecting everything to be put on a platter for them even though they couldn't take it for themselves.

the current predicament is the result of each and every corp on this game not having the guts to stand up and fight for months.

Allow me to retract some of that.. I don't mean 'every' in a literal sense, as there are some out there who did make an effort, and much respect to all of them. believe it or not I maintain a lot of respect for WTF as well.

you say this is all because of greed, and in some ways it certainly is. but know 1 thing... you guys are richer than we are. you say we 'farmed' all this time.. no.. we ATTACKED. u don't make isk if your districts aren't full. and ours have not all been full like, ever.

being on a constant warpath did not pad our wallets, it padded our assets. and now that we agree to divvy up our spoils, you slap us in the face by not even offering anything for our accomplishments?

hit me up when we can have a productive talk and start some negotiations

The fallout of this may help a lot of smaller corps, but the damage to CCP's economic plan for dust has been dramatically altered. There is now over 100 billion isk inflating the use of inappropriate gear and driving up prices once we get an actual economy. I destroyed roughly 3-4 million in TP assets yesterday in ambush over just 2 games. In a normal circumstance this would cause players to avoid bringing more expensive equipment into matches on a gamely basis with isk being a constraint. Now because of an exploit in the system that CCP didn't check when they implemented the system, an entire alliance is living without the same isk constraints as everyone else in the game and will continue to do so until it runs out or down.

Funny that TP would complain on the forums about the melee glitch when in fact they were using their very own exploit that has actually had a negative impact to the entire community. It is like the Pot calling the Kettle black.

While I can't say anything concrete yet, Team True Grit are doing things regarding this issue. Wonderful things.

But before you ask, no I don't have a timeline on when it will be added. But it is something we're aware of and working towards squishing.

Just to clarify does CCP see this as an exploit of the game? Additionally, if so does CCP see this as a violation of the EULA?

Crying to CCP because you can't fight your own war


Instant Classic

Hopefully this gets adressed before the economy in the game gets worse.

Just to clarify does CCP see this as an exploit of the game? Additionally, if so does CCP see this as a violation of the EULA?

more like before MH gets worse.

CCP Nullarbor

Graphs are hot.

So is feedback on this stuff, let us know what you think because we want to deploy it all Thursday :-)

CCP Foxfour

Now in the proper thread...

Hey guys! A quick update on the dev blog:

We are aware that there may possibly be a way to lock a district indefinitely. We have discussed this with the CPM and internally. For now we are going forward with tomorrows release of all the information included in this dev blog. We have monitoring in place to see how things go over. We are also working on plans that we can implement early or mid next week depending how this weekend goes.

Thank you everyone who has been providing feedback here, on IRC, twitter, and just anywhere else.

That is all for now. Carry on. :)

When last they introduced changes to PC, a lot of people warned CCP about the possible loopholes and exploits. Autolocking districts, low numbers on clone packs, how difficult it would be for new corps to get in PC, ... everything.

It's all in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93217

What cracks me up about that thread is that at the start it was like this:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1035735#post1035735




And ended like this:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1040816#post1040816



In other words: "Hey guys! We know those changes allow a glaring exploit, but we are going along with them because we are cool like that."

So these problems were called a month and a half ago, before changes were implemented. CCP acknowledged them, but decided to go along with it because they just know better.


A month and a half later, with lower player population, they start talking about solving a problem they created. A problem we warned them before they created it. I wonder what they want when they ask for feedback, because it is certainly not feedback.

[quote=Flyingconejo]When last they introduced changes to PC, a lot of people warned CCP about the possible loopholes and exploits. Autolocking districts, low numbers on clone packs, how difficult it would be for new corps to get in PC, ... everything.

It's all in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=93217

quote]


just more proof to moonman wang how awesome the brains of the community are...CCP, tsk tsk...

CCP Foxfour

Now in the proper thread...

Hey guys! A quick update on the dev blog:

We are aware that there may possibly be a way to lock a district indefinitely. We have discussed this with the CPM and internally. For now we are going forward with tomorrows release of all the information included in this dev blog. We have monitoring in place to see how things go over. We are also working on plans that we can implement early or mid next week depending how this weekend goes.

The problem is that you guys acquired all of this land while PC was unplayable to a large chunk of the playerbase due to lag and memory leaks, and while the balance was arguably as skewed and "broken" as it's ever been towards a few FOTM setups.

Heck, I'd be surprised if the majority of players even realized you guys were grabbing so much land, most of us didn't even look at the stats for PC for months. Now that the majority of the technical problems with PC are fixed, and the game is a little bit more balanced, everyone takes another look at the game mode and lo and behold; 1 group seems to own most of the territory.

Now, this would be fine if the equilibrium could be fixed by attacking your districts and whittling down your hold to just the amount of districts you guys can hold (which was the main intent of the FEC). Unfortunately, with the broken mechanic of being able to "lock down" your districts and still turn a profit, you can pretty much sit on all that land inevitably.

Is this your fault? No. You guys saw an opportunity and took it. Unfortunately for you guys though, just like so many other aspects of the game, CCP's mistakes are going to have to negatively effect someone in order to fix them.

So, if you guys want to sit on those districts and leave them locked indefinitely, then go for it, it just helps prove how broken the game mode really is. However, if you don't want to sit on them and keep them locked, then it looks to me like you're either going to keep getting attacked until you reach a size that you can hold on your own, or you can step up to the negotiating table and meet the demands of the FEC.

The cheap way, the hard way, or the easy way.

Your choice.

The community is far from awesome, but CCP is certainly not better.

You should read that thread...the community actually gave useful feedback...systematically ignored does not encourage to give more.

That leaves the forum only for nerf qq or troll threads and posts. Like yours.

melee glitch first.