Tanker......swap the T for a W and you have found the core of the issue.

You say all that but most tankers hate infantry, hate anyone that isnt them even looking at their vehicle, and have a care bear non aggression pact with other tank drivers so even if you do see them on the field they ignore each other for easy kills

You want to play against just tanks and not worry about infantry AV then world of tanks is just over there

And that whole "we want a place" is bullshit since the place tanks are now is the same place tanks are in the real world, heavy fire support
It is not some end all be all rolling wall of steel and death that needs another juggernaut to stop it, militaries have been finding ways for a man on foot to bust them apart solo ever since they rolled onto the battlefield

Now if you want to talk about buffing tanks by giving them defensive systems in line with what we have now then Im all for that, giving them a TROPHY system that draws off X amount of swarms from a cluster fired at them or a Nakidka camo kit to make it more difficult to acquire a lock then Im all for that but crying and demanding nerfs is idiotic

You can't argue logic against radical, feverish hatred of something.

One big problem is that tanks tanking ability scales up so much with skills and equipment, this should be normalized and then they can make their killing ability scale more instead.

Tanks regenerative ability should be kept low and buffer high so AVers can force tanks to leave but not kill them so easily.

Also infantry has the ability to hide and shoot AV from protected places, this isnt something tanks can do very good and thats enough reason in its own to make them more survivable.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL

PRO swarms will be able to do 7000 damage in just a few seconds when 1.4 hits.

High buffer? You're talking about no less than 50%. Can't have that, because that's overpowered.

so you diddnt read the post

thats cool


right now a single AV infantry renders tanks obsolete, hence why you see nonagression pactsand the like.

also not once did you meantion what kind of tank gameplay you want to see and how you want to get there.


second this ISNT THE REAL WORLD, you cant draw parralels to the real world outside of tactics that may or may not transfer.

its a game and it works like a game.

so what role do you want tanks to have

what gameplkay do you see coming out of that

and how do you want to get there

answer those questions or every single opinion you have on balance is just plain irrelevant.


you think tanks are in a good place right now? where the only reason people use them is because they want to, and they arnt viable in competitive play even a little bit?

meaning if you diddnt have tankers that just plain like tanks no matter how bad they are you wouldnt have any tanks ont he field right now

meaning no reason for infantry AV to exsist.


essentially in the current game neatiher tanks nor infantry AV needs to exsist to obtain the game level of gameplay we have now meaning both are worthless

Here's a radical idea: Get the devs to buff the vehicle engineering skill back to 5% per level and focus on matchmaking to help new players instead of punishing veterans that invested their time/SP/ISK into their trade.

Whine more, the "This isnt the real world" excuse wears real thin when you have plenty of tankers cry "But its a tank, it should tank damage"

And if you cant suss out that my saying the tanks role is "heavy fire support" is somehow not me saying how I think tank gameplay should be and how suggesting certain buffs is not me saying how I think we should get there then your comprehension ability is terrible and you have no place attempting to tell people how relevant their opinions on a subject are

Even more so since so far you are doing what many other tankers have done, make a long winded statement when the core idea is "nerf this so I dont die" and getting salty when a post that you glossed over disagrees with you and then attempting to railroad the conversation, it betrays that you have no real interest in actually discussing the manner
Oh and try not double spacing every line, it adds to the page length unnecessarily and is a lame way to extend the length of your post
If I were going to play armchair psychologist I would say you do it in an attempt to overwhelm and frighten people off

before posting answer 2 questions

1:what kind of tank/av/infantry gameplay do you want to see
1:one suggestion on how to achieve that vision of balance


seriously DO IT

in simple terms, what EXACTLY do you believe they should be capable of, and how EXACTLY do you think they should acomplish this task, what changes should or shouldnt be made to create what you want.
you have brought nothing to the discussion while telling me im doing the same.

currently both tanks and infantry AV are irrelevant, one exsists simply to torture those who willingly spec into and role with other not because of its power but because they just like tanks.

DO YOU BELIEVE that infantry should be the dominate anti- vehicle force, and WHY, and what effect will this have on the game.

its simple to actually participate in the thread rather then tear it down for exsisting, im simply asking for your opinion on the topic and a discussion on it

what your giving me is your opinion on the threads exsistance and telling me it shouldnt be said

I did do that and you not comprehending that, willingly I presume, and bringing it up again with much added fluff retreading what you have already said tells me that you have no good response and are stalling for time

1/10 try again

The fundamental problem here is that tankers believe one player in a tank should be more powerful than one infantry player, but the infantry players don't agree. We can talk about ISK and SP. proto and non-proto, engagement ranges etc. as much as we want, but until we address that core issue we're unlikely to come to any agreement.

It isn't like we don't have a simple solution even: make HAVs require three players to operate effectively, then make them three times as effective as one infantry player.

How do we make tanks need 3 players to operate? Player 1 (driver) drives the tank, has the front small gun and limited field of view; player 2 (gunner) has the main gun, and also a limited field of view; player 3 (commander) has the top small gun and the external view.

before posting answer 2 questions

1:what kind of tank/av/infantry gameplay do you want to see
1:one suggestion on how to achieve that vision of balance

If you do the above, nothing would need to be changed and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infantry players don't give a crap about pilots and pilots have a chip on their shoulders against infantry. This topic is going to wind up going 10+ pages of back and forth valid points from both sides that will eventually degrade into who has the best insults to exert their e-peen. The end result will be another topic being ignored and the devs will continue on trying to re-balance two game mechanics around a nerf that shouldn't have happened in the first place if they had taken the advice of the majority of the community and made matchmaking a top priority. What you say doesn't matter as much as what I have to say, but in the end, unwarranted self importance while standing on a virtual soap box will amount to nothing while the elephant in the room continues to be ignored. I've given you a valid fact that I've been stating on these god forsaken forums since the day it happened, and again it seems like I'll go ignored because everything we say on here doesn't matter when the developers are going to pick and choose the topics they want to read whether the CPM brings it to their attention or not. The sooner you realize this harsh truth, the better.

The fundamental problem here is that tankers believe one player in a tank should be more powerful than one infantry player, but the infantry players don't agree. We can talk about ISK and SP. proto and non-proto, engagement ranges etc. as much as we want, but until we address that core issue we're unlikely to come to any agreement.

It isn't like we don't have a simple solution even: make HAVs require three players to operate effectively, then make them three times as effective as one infantry player.

How do we make tanks need 3 players to operate? Player 1 (driver) drives the tank, has the front small gun and limited field of view; player 2 (gunner) has the main gun, and also a limited field of view; player 3 (commander) has the top small gun and the external view.

the problem wiht it i believe is that it wont actually fix the problem

you may have more survivable tanks yes, but anti tank will still be infantry dominant, basically rendering tanks obsolete no matter how survivable they are,

the previous tanks back in chromosome were in their infancy, nobody really knew what was up and tehre were alot of bugs hidden around

tanks were doing roughly 2x the damage they are now due to a bug in the way passive skills stacked.

there were next to no players speced into proto AV as well so the tanks wernt really being attacked all that agressivly by individual players and most tank deaths were being caused by other tanks.

thats no longer the case, and now that infantry are the kings of anti-vehicle i dont think a simple increase in powergrid (and therefor survivability and extreme fit variety) is going to be enough to justify their exsistance on a competitive level

Old swarms patch

New swarms patch

Look at the pic http://i.imgur.com/tLiMw1K.png?1

Current Swarm Launcher Timeline

1.2 seconds: 1st volley launched (1.2 second lock-on time)
3.2 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
4.4 seconds: 2nd volley launched
6.4 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
7.6 seconds: 3rd volley launched
9.6 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
10.8 seconds: 4th volley launched (SL Operation 5 increases clip size to 4)
15.3 seconds: Finished reloading (4.5 second reload time)
16.5 seconds: 5th volley launched
18.5 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
19.7 seconds: 6th volley launched

Uprising 1.4 Swarm Launcher Timeline

1.05 seconds: 1st volley launched (1.05 second lock-on time with 25% reduction from SL Operation 5)
1.35 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
2.4 seconds: 2nd volley launched
2.7 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
3.75 seconds: 3rd volley launched
8.25 seconds: Finished reloading (SL Operation no longer increases clip size, 4.5 second reload time)
9.3 seconds: 4th volley launched
9.6 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
10.65 seconds: 5th volley launched
10.95 seconds: Fire interval delay finished
12 seconds: 6th volley launched

Old swarms patch

New swarms patch

Look at the pic http://i.imgur.com/tLiMw1K.png?1

Dead link, but while you're here, would you mind helping me settle a point with the OP? If you logged in today after downtime and found out that the vehicle engineering skill got buffed from 1% per level to 5% per level, how would that change how you fit your tank?

Dead link, but while you're here, would you mind helping me settle a point with the OP? If you logged in today after downtime and found out that the vehicle engineering skill got buffed from 1% per level to 5% per level, how would that change how you fit your tank?

it woudl change how we fit tanks, but it wouldnt change the overall outcome

infantry would still be kings of AV, and tanks still wouldnt be viable in competitive play.

that is of course my opinion, and i could very well be wrong on that account.

i definatly think it would be a step in the right direction though, and i good buff to start from. just not sure about that being the only change thats needed