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Cosgar
ParagonX
4548
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Posted - 2013.08.24 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here's a radical idea: Get the devs to buff the vehicle engineering skill back to 5% per level and focus on matchmaking to help new players instead of punishing veterans that invested their time/SP/ISK into their trade. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4549
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Posted - 2013.08.24 10:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Cosgar wrote:Here's a radical idea: Get the devs to buff the vehicle engineering skill back to 5% per level and focus on matchmaking to help new players instead of punishing veterans that invested their time/SP/ISK into their trade. before posting answer 2 questions 1:what kind of tank/av/infantry gameplay do you want to see 1:one suggestion on how to achieve that vision of balance If you do the above, nothing would need to be changed and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infantry players don't give a crap about pilots and pilots have a chip on their shoulders against infantry. This topic is going to wind up going 10+ pages of back and forth valid points from both sides that will eventually degrade into who has the best insults to exert their e-peen. The end result will be another topic being ignored and the devs will continue on trying to re-balance two game mechanics around a nerf that shouldn't have happened in the first place if they had taken the advice of the majority of the community and made matchmaking a top priority. What you say matter as much as the next guy on here, but in the end, unwarranted self importance while standing on a virtual soap box will amount to nothing while the elephant in the room continues to be ignored. I've given you a valid fact that I've been stating on these god forsaken forums since the day it happened, and again it seems like I'll go ignored because everything we say on here doesn't matter when the developers are going to pick and choose the topics they want to read whether the CPM brings it to their attention or not. The sooner you realize this harsh truth, the better. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4549
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 10:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Cosgar wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Cosgar wrote:Here's a radical idea: Get the devs to buff the vehicle engineering skill back to 5% per level and focus on matchmaking to help new players instead of punishing veterans that invested their time/SP/ISK into their trade. before posting answer 2 questions 1:what kind of tank/av/infantry gameplay do you want to see 1:one suggestion on how to achieve that vision of balance If you do the above, nothing would need to be changed and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infantry players don't give a crap about pilots and pilots have a chip on their shoulders against infantry. This topic is going to wind up going 10+ pages of back and forth valid points from both sides that will eventually degrade into who has the best insults to exert their e-peen. The end result will be another topic being ignored and the devs will continue on trying to re-balance two game mechanics around a nerf that shouldn't have happened in the first place if they had taken the advice of the majority of the community and made matchmaking a top priority. What you say doesn't matter as much as what I have to say, but in the end, unwarranted self importance while standing on a virtual soap box will amount to nothing while the elephant in the room continues to be ignored. I've given you a valid fact that I've been stating on these god forsaken forums since the day it happened, and again it seems like I'll go ignored because everything we say on here doesn't matter when the developers are going to pick and choose the topics they want to read whether the CPM brings it to their attention or not. The sooner you realize this harsh truth, the better. the problem wiht it i believe is that it wont actually fix the problem you may have more survivable tanks yes, but anti tank will still be infantry dominant, basically rendering tanks obsolete no matter how survivable they are, the previous tanks back in chromosome were in their infancy, nobody really knew what was up and tehre were alot of bugs hidden around tanks were doing roughly 2x the damage they are now due to a bug in the way passive skills stacked. there were next to no players speced into proto AV as well so the tanks wernt really being attacked all that agressivly by individual players and most tank deaths were being caused by other tanks. thats no longer the case, and now that infantry are the kings of anti-vehicle i dont think a simple increase in powergrid (and therefor survivability and extreme fit variety) is going to be enough to justify their exsistance on a competitive level If you don't think +20% PG matters then something is wrong. Ask any dedicated pilot how tough it is trying to actually fit something. Not like it matters, because like I said earlier, this is going to get buried under several pages of infantry and pilots having a pissing contest. Welcome to the dust merc condition. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4549
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Posted - 2013.08.24 10:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dead link, but while you're here, would you mind helping me settle a point with the OP? If you logged in today after downtime and found out that the vehicle engineering skill got buffed from 1% per level to 5% per level, how would that change how you fit your tank? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4550
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Posted - 2013.08.24 11:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Cosgar wrote:Dead link, but while you're here, would you mind helping me settle a point with the OP? If you logged in today after downtime and found out that the vehicle engineering skill got buffed from 1% per level to 5% per level, how would that change how you fit your tank? I have no idea It might not change much because i use a 15% mod as it is now so 5% might not change much overall except for a few fits You'd essentially have the same PG you had back in Chrome if that helps. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4565
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Again cause some on here would rather not hear it, for the simple fact of "DUST IS NOT A FPS! IT DOESNT HAVE TO FOLLOW ITS RULES!"
There is a reason why in Almost all FPS games, TANKS ARE NOT A PRIMARY ROLE. THEY ALWAYS FALL UNDER "SUPPORT"
You want to see tanks and DS all over the field? LOWER THE PRICE. BUT to those that feel that you need 4 guys to down a tank, come on!
So a scrub that never touched a FPS can jump in a tank and wipe the floor with PLAYERS THAT HAVE PLAYED FPS GAMES? 50-2 for a fairy that never touched a FPS game? NO. How come people can use RL examples on how the AR should be balanced, but when HAV come into play that goes out the window? Double standard much?
At the end of the day, everyone wants their time/ISK/SP invested in their role to mean something. (Most) Infantry have that, why not vehicles? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4567
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Cosgar wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Again cause some on here would rather not hear it, for the simple fact of "DUST IS NOT A FPS! IT DOESNT HAVE TO FOLLOW ITS RULES!"
There is a reason why in Almost all FPS games, TANKS ARE NOT A PRIMARY ROLE. THEY ALWAYS FALL UNDER "SUPPORT"
You want to see tanks and DS all over the field? LOWER THE PRICE. BUT to those that feel that you need 4 guys to down a tank, come on!
So a scrub that never touched a FPS can jump in a tank and wipe the floor with PLAYERS THAT HAVE PLAYED FPS GAMES? 50-2 for a fairy that never touched a FPS game? NO. How come people can use RL examples on how the AR should be balanced, but when HAV come into play that goes out the window? Double standard much? At the end of the day, everyone wants their time/ISK/SP invested in their role to mean something. (Most) Infantry have that, why not vehicles? We don't use RL examples for HAV's cause if that was the case, havs drivers would throw more of a fit. lol In RL it takes one guy to take our a tank. two at most. Tanks in RL play support roles. hence why it's that way in many FPS games. Most FPS games have more of an infantry focus with tanks peppered in. In dust tanks are another role just like infantry. Right now, the skill gap for anyone that would have any interest in tanking is too wide because of a nerf that was put in place of a matchmaking system. In Chrome, tanks were a force multiplier where pilots would throw their money on the field in hopes of turning the tide of a battle. With proper squad support, good gunners, and disorganized opponents they were invincible. Hell, anything can be invincible with proper teamwork. In Uprising, tanks have degraded to a liability and an afterthought. Think about it, when's the last time someone legitimately complained about tanks in Uprising? If people aren't complaining, something is obviously broken. Same with the laser, shotgun, HMG, and even the mass driver in earlier patches. Tanks need to be beefed up to **** people off again or there's no point in having the role at all. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4568
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Posted - 2013.08.24 23:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:Cosgar wrote: In Chrome, tanks were a force multiplier where pilots would throw their money on the field in hopes of turning the tide of a battle. With proper squad support, good gunners, and disorganized opponents they were invincible. Hell, anything can be invincible with proper teamwork. In Uprising, tanks have degraded to a liability and an afterthought. Think about it, when's the last time someone legitimately complained about tanks in Uprising? If people aren't complaining, something is obviously broken. Same with the laser, shotgun, HMG, and even the mass driver in earlier patches. Tanks need to be beefed up to **** people off again or there's no point in having the role at all. Are you kidding me? Chrome saw the rise of Tank514. Just call in one tank in an Ambush and go 24-0. It wasn't that long ago, not sure why you would think we would have forgotten about this. :| Also @VoidEcho okay Strawman, have fun with your straw. How to solve the problem in chronological order: Lower the cost of tanks > bring out matchmaking > bring out proto/adv tanks > ??? > Profit! There is no way we can pretend to know about AV/Tank balance at this stage because it's idiotic to compare STD Tanks to Proto AV. Believe it or not, compare a STD tank to MLT AV and you would see that it's just as unbalanced in favor of the tank. People had issues with tanks in Chrome because there were so few people specced into AV while full time tankers invested 100% of their SP into HAV. The game is supposed to reward you for specializing, so it was working as intended for the most part. I used to think tanks were OP back then too until I got proto swarms and worked with other AV users to land calculated strikes. Even camping a nanohive and lobbing some Lai Dais usually did the trick too. Is game mechanic truly OP if everyone ignores that mechanic's hard counter?
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