Tanker......swap the T for a W and you have found the core of the issue.

You say all that but most tankers hate infantry, hate anyone that isnt them even looking at their vehicle, and have a care bear non aggression pact with other tank drivers so even if you do see them on the field they ignore each other for easy kills

You want to play against just tanks and not worry about infantry AV then world of tanks is just over there

And that whole "we want a place" is bullshit since the place tanks are now is the same place tanks are in the real world, heavy fire support
It is not some end all be all rolling wall of steel and death that needs another juggernaut to stop it, militaries have been finding ways for a man on foot to bust them apart solo ever since they rolled onto the battlefield

Now if you want to talk about buffing tanks by giving them defensive systems in line with what we have now then Im all for that, giving them a TROPHY system that draws off X amount of swarms from a cluster fired at them or a Nakidka camo kit to make it more difficult to acquire a lock then Im all for that but crying and demanding nerfs is idiotic

You can't argue logic against radical, feverish hatred of something.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLL

PRO swarms will be able to do 7000 damage in just a few seconds when 1.4 hits.

High buffer? You're talking about no less than 50%. Can't have that, because that's overpowered.

Here's a radical idea: Get the devs to buff the vehicle engineering skill back to 5% per level and focus on matchmaking to help new players instead of punishing veterans that invested their time/SP/ISK into their trade.

Whine more, the "This isnt the real world" excuse wears real thin when you have plenty of tankers cry "But its a tank, it should tank damage"

And if you cant suss out that my saying the tanks role is "heavy fire support" is somehow not me saying how I think tank gameplay should be and how suggesting certain buffs is not me saying how I think we should get there then your comprehension ability is terrible and you have no place attempting to tell people how relevant their opinions on a subject are

Even more so since so far you are doing what many other tankers have done, make a long winded statement when the core idea is "nerf this so I dont die" and getting salty when a post that you glossed over disagrees with you and then attempting to railroad the conversation, it betrays that you have no real interest in actually discussing the manner
Oh and try not double spacing every line, it adds to the page length unnecessarily and is a lame way to extend the length of your post
If I were going to play armchair psychologist I would say you do it in an attempt to overwhelm and frighten people off

I did do that and you not comprehending that, willingly I presume, and bringing it up again with much added fluff retreading what you have already said tells me that you have no good response and are stalling for time

1/10 try again

The fundamental problem here is that tankers believe one player in a tank should be more powerful than one infantry player, but the infantry players don't agree. We can talk about ISK and SP. proto and non-proto, engagement ranges etc. as much as we want, but until we address that core issue we're unlikely to come to any agreement.

It isn't like we don't have a simple solution even: make HAVs require three players to operate effectively, then make them three times as effective as one infantry player.

How do we make tanks need 3 players to operate? Player 1 (driver) drives the tank, has the front small gun and limited field of view; player 2 (gunner) has the main gun, and also a limited field of view; player 3 (commander) has the top small gun and the external view.

If you do the above, nothing would need to be changed and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Infantry players don't give a crap about pilots and pilots have a chip on their shoulders against infantry. This topic is going to wind up going 10+ pages of back and forth valid points from both sides that will eventually degrade into who has the best insults to exert their e-peen. The end result will be another topic being ignored and the devs will continue on trying to re-balance two game mechanics around a nerf that shouldn't have happened in the first place if they had taken the advice of the majority of the community and made matchmaking a top priority. What you say doesn't matter as much as what I have to say, but in the end, unwarranted self importance while standing on a virtual soap box will amount to nothing while the elephant in the room continues to be ignored. I've given you a valid fact that I've been stating on these god forsaken forums since the day it happened, and again it seems like I'll go ignored because everything we say on here doesn't matter when the developers are going to pick and choose the topics they want to read whether the CPM brings it to their attention or not. The sooner you realize this harsh truth, the better.

Dead link, but while you're here, would you mind helping me settle a point with the OP? If you logged in today after downtime and found out that the vehicle engineering skill got buffed from 1% per level to 5% per level, how would that change how you fit your tank?

Dude think about it with a base of +20% and 2 local power upgrades you gould fit 2 heavy shield boosters and 1 heavy extender allong with hardiners ohh yea. Or even 2 heavy extenders and a good heavy booster with hardners boom.

I run laser rifles and am usally in high places so blaster tanks usally don't pick on me rail tanks make me paranoid :) but any ways
What I want tank gameplay to be like:
I will list how well all tier tanks should do against av in general from my point of view.

Militia - at max be able to attain 3-5 infantry kills maybe 1 other tank

Standard madragars/gunlogi's - 10-15 infantry kills 1-2 enemy tanks (depending on how built)

advanced enforcer class - 15-20 infantry kills 3-4 enemy tanks(to be honest I think Soma's are more scary then enforcers.

Proto tanks - 20-30 infantry kills 5 enemy tank take downs I miss being scared but to make proto tanks not be abused like 5 in 1 ambush have it so you can only bring maybe one or two into the field have it cost about a flat 3.5 million isk 4 just the tank

I miss the old days of holy crap enemy tank! now when someone brings out an enforcer I hear my whole squad go who can blow it up fastest wins! I want to be scared again but I think have 4 or 5 , 5 million dollar tanks on the field never being destroyed was a bit over kill.

I'd like to strike a balance. I'd like to see dedicated tank killer vehicles, for example: like a HAV but with a big railgun damage bonus, but really weak defenses. But I also like the idea that infantry can hold their own against tanks, as well as tank vs tank combat.

Your idea of balance is correct, but your view of the current problem in-game is not.

My militia HAV (standard railgun) destroys enemy vehicles much more quickly than my advanced infantry AV fits.

vehicles vs AV is indeed broken, but it's not broken the way tankers say.
The main problems:
Broken AV WP mechanics (WP gain is too slow, and it's too easy for an AVer to lose an assist)

Terrible turrets- small turrets are worthless, while large missiles rely on luck to hit infantry.

ISK cost- vehicles are far more expensive than they should be.

Map design- it's nearly impossible for counter-AVers to remove AVers from certain positions

Redline abuse- this is something for both vehicles and AVers. AVers can safely AV from the redline (sometimes shooting dropships with railgun installations). HAVs can snipe even more safely from the redline than infantry snipers. All vehicles can retreat to the redline to safely repair.

Recall abuse- getting shot at by AVers? You can now make your HAV vanish, then call it in on the redline!

Hit marker issues- they're pretty buggy and usually don't show where the vehicle is really coming from.


I'm not going to mention invisible swarms, because it never happened to me- I always see them before they hit, or as least hear them behind me.

Until it takes multiple people to operate a HAV, I believe it shouldn't take multiple people to take down an HAV.

They should however lower the cost of the tanks.

True, but it's not an absolute. I've done an awful lot of successful point defense/delay with a toxin smg.

They are gimped in range and lack of grenades, no argument there.

I think AV infantry are worth about half an AI infantry as long as they choose their battles correctly and don't try to be the superman.