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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1944
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dropships are going to have a harder time of it now with the increased Alpha.
Now they can fly off before the second or third volley arrives, but come 1.4 their reaction window shrinks.
Often a pilots first warning is the explosions from the first volley. From there the second arrives 1.35 second latter and the third a mere 2.7 seconds from the first. That's pretty tight if you aren't already moving. |
howard sanchez
spliff's channel
669
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 19:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Poplo Furuya wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:@Obi Wan-Jacobi
You just went full stupid. You can't go full stupid.
Read the patch notes again and read it carefully. Look at the calculations. From what we can gather from the notes, you will NOT BE ABLE TO DEAL 9000 DAMAGE IN A SECOND, YOU HAVE TO RE-LOCK AFTER EVERY SHOT AND THE LOCKING TIME HAS BEEN INCREASED. Oh look, my caps lock slipped again. I think it was you that just went full stupid and maybe you need to read the notes again. It clearly says the skill now gives reduced lock-on time, which means the Swarm Launcher will have less lock-on time than it currently has. It's able to fire 3 shots in 4 seconds. That's just terribad. Let's see. * The Swarm Launcher Operation skill bonus has been changed from increasing the clip size to reducing the lock-on time by 5% * Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and its fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3 Assuming level 5 on the skill book, that will reduce lock-on time to 1.05 seconds. Then there is the interval of 0.3 seconds. Yeah, about 3 shots in less than 4 seconds like you said. But keep in mind that is assuming every rocket in the volley hits. Most of the tanks that I see often use cover and often times a few of the rockets hit the hills or rocky spires before they reach their target. But then again, we are talking NON-proto tanks here. We have no idea what kind of HPs the Proto-tanks will have when they come out. Your scenario is assuming a head-on AV to HAV engagement. In this case it's about threat, not whether you can destroy the HAV. Limiting their engagement possibilities. At the moment Swarms do this, post-change they still will. This is not the scenario this change impacts most heavily. Another scenario, a speedy Medium or Scout taking the long route to offload on a HAV 'safely' behind their lines with no immediate escape route to block AV to HAV LoS. This new change will give Wiyrkomis an incredible alpha, 3 salvos impacting within 4 seconds of each other. In practice this means far more damage makes it in before active hardeners activate or reppers begin pulsing... this might equate to some of the best armour tankers getting toasted by one person's surprise attack before any real reaction is possible. Alternately the same thing but from a tower, Swarms from above negate most cover. If an armour HAV notices this ahead of time their only recourse is to pick a god and pray they can recall before the 3 salvos make it. Seriously, their potential with this change is utterly incredible. I think the larger point here is that HAVs are NOT meant to operate without support. Maybe CCP wants a 1-to-1 engagement to end poorly for the HAV to make the point that HAVs are like--for lack of a better analogy--a Capital ship that operates with a support group. The support here are other Mercs. This is a good post. CDR Wang just finished pointing out one reason CCP doesn't like to release patch notes too early. Forum warriors love to theory-craft thier way to massive trolldom before ever even trying changes out in the field.
Guys like ObiWan want to spam crap without even understanding what thier talking about.
But this post suggests that CCP may have a bigger picture in mind for combined arms and coordinated warfare than a lot of us have even considered.
I, for one, will wait till 3Sep and then beginning of Oct before passing too much judgement. The patch notes for 1.4 suggest that CCP is still working hard to balance all systems in an effort to make the game work the way they want it to. Not one of us has played with 1.4 yet. So deciding how messed up it is already is premature.
Not saying we shouldn't post but making sweeping declarations before even trying it is about as stupid as ending a sentence with 'lol'. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
789
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
vehicle patch is in 1.5, sorry but you will need to live with it till then. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
3729
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Posted - 2013.08.24 06:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
@Howard
Nice point.
Also, you ended a sentence with lol. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
45
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Posted - 2013.08.24 16:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
Dropship pilots will always find a way to rise through the ashes and assert themselves in spite of Nurfs, Buffs, and even Tank QQ.
Rise
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
879
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 16:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Majority plays infantry. Infantry players dont like to get killed by tanks. Simple sayd: HTFU and obey to the AR crowd. I am Infantry, I have NOT spent a single skillpoint in ARs.
I am of the opinion that the vehicle operators who are whinging about their vehicles should take some time to skill infantry.
Do you spawn into the match on your pixelated feet in a dropsuit or do you spawn into the match already in your pixelated vehicle?
I mean, if you have found a way to spawn in your vehicle without ever setting a foot down, then by all means throw all of your points into vehicles, if you haven't-- then don't *****, you've made your choice now deal with it. |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
588
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Posted - 2013.08.24 16:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote: This is a good post. CDR Wang just finished pointing out one reason CCP doesn't like to release patch notes too early. Forum warriors love to theory-craft thier way to massive trolldom before ever even trying changes out in the field.
Guys like ObiWan want to spam crap without even understanding what thier talking about.
But this post suggests that CCP may have a bigger picture in mind for combined arms and coordinated warfare than a lot of us have even considered.
I, for one, will wait till 3Sep and then beginning of Oct before passing too much judgement. The patch notes for 1.4 suggest that CCP is still working hard to balance all systems in an effort to make the game work the way they want it to. Not one of us has played with 1.4 yet. So deciding how messed up it is already is premature.
Not saying we shouldn't post but making sweeping declarations before even trying it is about as stupid as ending a sentence with 'lol'.
Yeah, except that player theory crafting has pointed out problems that took CCP months to fix, before the problems were even implemented. the players happen to know the game much better because of the fact that we actually play it, instead of just buffing weapons via dartboard. Also, we have skilled into basic math, CCP obviously forgot to put points into this skill. |
Spec Ops Cipher
Seraphim Initiative..
381
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Posted - 2013.08.24 17:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Marc Rime wrote:Don't armour tanks still have the broken reppers? Shouldn't those things kinda make up for a bit more swarm damage until vehicles and AV is properly re-balanced? Proto swarms do over 3k armor per volley. No repper is able to keep up with that in 4 seconds. Even if you activated the repper as soon as you saw the first set launched, you are eating the first set before the rep cycle, and when two and three hit you are going boom. All this means is that roof top swarmers will now mercilessly crap on tanks. Proto swarms do 2574 damage per volley. 2 Complex damage mods makes em do about 3k |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1800
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Posted - 2013.08.24 17:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:This is a good post. CDR Wang just finished pointing out one reason CCP doesn't like to release patch notes too early. Forum warriors love to theory-craft thier way to massive trolldom before ever even trying changes out in the field.
Guys like ObiWan want to spam crap without even understanding what thier talking about.
But this post suggests that CCP may have a bigger picture in mind for combined arms and coordinated warfare than a lot of us have even considered.
I, for one, will wait till 3Sep and then beginning of Oct before passing too much judgement. The patch notes for 1.4 suggest that CCP is still working hard to balance all systems in an effort to make the game work the way they want it to. Not one of us has played with 1.4 yet. So deciding how messed up it is already is premature.
Not saying we shouldn't post but making sweeping declarations before even trying it is about as stupid as ending a sentence with 'lol'.
I think this post and these changes are exactly why the SHOULD post these changes earlier.
I can almost guarantee that swarms are going to work just like people are saying they will, and will result in a massive dps increase.
This is why we should be discussing these changes before they are content locked, now its too late.
Now... if they do operate just like we think, it means it will be a minimum of 5 weeks where this problem will run rampant.
This is why people are so unhappy with this game. The fact that something so obviously broken and overpowered will run rampant on the servers for the next 5 weeks as CCP cannot hotfix this due to the game being on the PS3.
This is essentially going to be the flaylock debacle for tankers. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
5
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Posted - 2013.08.26 20:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
Marcos Vega wrote:0bi wan-jacobi wrote:Swarms will basically shoot three volleys in one second instapopping any armor tank before they can even react. This is THE stupidest thing i have seen from ccp in all my time on dust. This is one swarmer that will put out like 9000 damage in a second. **** if there two swarmers, just lol.
I dont care about the rest of the update. I dont get to enjoy the rest because ill be in a armor tank getting my **** pushed in. Now ill have too wait a month until this **** gets fixed. CCP wonders why we get pissed off when they dont tell us about the update. ITS BECAUSE WE DONT WANT STUPID **** LIKE THIS IN THE GAME. Swarms break lock between shots Yes but the relock time is 0.3 seconds I believe. |
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Charlotte O'Dell
0uter.Heaven
1153
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 20:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Anyone defending swarms at this point is either a terrible player or an idiot.
Any shield tankers are stupid for being happy about armor tanks getting shafted because YOU ARE NEXT. All niche weapon users must stand together to fight the AR supremacists.
Also, I'll be pamming mass drivers from the roof until 1.5 |
Kaze Eyrou
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
344
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
So let me guess:
ITT: Everyone who QQ'ed in here can't see this:
2+1=3
and then CCP changed it to:
1+2=3
And they are calling OP.
Man they should try doing this during their kindergarten math tests! |
Shadow of War88
0uter.Heaven
37
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Posted - 2013.08.26 21:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
0bi wan-jacobi wrote:Swarms will basically shoot three volleys in one second instapopping any armor tank before they can even react. This is THE stupidest thing i have seen from ccp in all my time on dust. This is one swarmer that will put out like 9000 damage in a second. **** if there two swarmers, just lol.
I dont care about the rest of the update. I dont get to enjoy the rest because ill be in a armor tank getting my **** pushed in. Now ill have too wait a month until this **** gets fixed. CCP wonders why we get pissed off when they dont tell us about the update. ITS BECAUSE WE DONT WANT STUPID **** LIKE THIS IN THE GAME.
need a tampon bro? i roll in my lil gunnlogi in PC makin bitches mad even when they have em crazy armor reps on gallente tanks and huge DPS of perched up forge gunners.
now shut up, swarms are fine :) |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
156
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Nalhe Saldana wrote:Vehicle and AV update is in 1.5, just dont use them until then.
So anybody with only vehicle skills is supposed to do what? |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
156
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:R F Gyro wrote:I know next to nothing about swarms, but does Quote:Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and its fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3 mean that firing will look like this? 0.0s Start lock #1 1.4s Fire #1 1.7s Start lock #2 3.1s Fire #2 3.4s Start lock #3 4.8s Fire #3 * The Swarm Launcher Operation skill bonus has been changed from increasing the clip size to reducing the lock-on time by 5% 0.0s Start lock #1 1.05s Fire #1 1.35s Start lock #2 2.4s Fire #2 2.7s Start lock #3 3.75s Fire #3 4 seconds to do three volleys... that's insane. You will need to have a completely modded tank to do anything, even then tanks are so slow they are pretty much toast as it is. Somas are done, no reason to use them now. Only hardened maddys can take that kind of punishment, and not for very long. Operating under the assumption that you can just stand out in the open and fire off all three volleys in a game where a quarter or more of each team goes sniper up in the mountains or on towers. That's not a very realistic assumption.
Right because the they have to stand still while locking and firing...oh wait they don't. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1289
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Nalhe Saldana wrote:Vehicle and AV update is in 1.5, just dont use them until then. So anybody with only vehicle skills is supposed to do what? beat the AFK system and show them that they need a good solid reward system to fix AFKing or wait for 1.5 by playing a different game. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
532
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Operating under the assumption that you can just stand out in the open and fire off all three volleys in a game where a quarter or more of each team goes sniper up in the mountains or on towers.
That's not a very realistic assumption. That's fairly situational, you can't say that snipers hiding in some pub matches is a valid enough reason for AV to recieve an additional buff when it is already acknowledged that AV is imbalanced vs vehicles. I'll condede though that the smaller clip size might make it okay if a tank can hand that much alpha. I know my little soma can't, it takes two wiyrkomi swarms to kill my soma while I have all modules running. I don't know how a 10 million SP maddy can handle swarms.
It's a whole ******* 3 more shots if I get hit over and over. about 8 if I dodge them. And You can't forget about invisa-swarms, so you won't even know they're ******* coming |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
532
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:So let me guess:
ITT: Everyone who QQ'ed in here can't see this:
2+1=3
and then CCP changed it to:
1+2=3
And they are calling OP.
Man they should try doing this during their kindergarten math tests!
1.2+2= 3.4; 1.4+.3= 1.7. They halved the time. Learn to read. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
DUST University Ivy League
222
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Well... Prof 5 3x modded proto swarm deals 3800 to my Madrugar (before resists). I probably won't know it's fired until it hits me. So from my perspective, that's ~7k damage in 1.35 seconds. Unless I'm running with my resists up, or at full shields and armour, I'll probably die. Previously I was reasonably capable of escaping a single proto swarmer. Now, with all his damage coming (from my perspective) in 2.7s from an unknown direction and location, I'll be dead.
Unfortunately, hit indicators are useless. Sometimes the swarms hit the other side of you from the swarmer. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1289
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:R F Gyro wrote:I know next to nothing about swarms, but does Quote:Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and its fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3 mean that firing will look like this? 0.0s Start lock #1 1.4s Fire #1 1.7s Start lock #2 3.1s Fire #2 3.4s Start lock #3 4.8s Fire #3 * The Swarm Launcher Operation skill bonus has been changed from increasing the clip size to reducing the lock-on time by 5% 0.0s Start lock #1 1.05s Fire #1 1.35s Start lock #2 2.4s Fire #2 2.7s Start lock #3 3.75s Fire #3 4 seconds to do three volleys... that's insane. You will need to have a completely modded tank to do anything, even then tanks are so slow they are pretty much toast as it is. Somas are done, no reason to use them now. Only hardened maddys can take that kind of punishment, and not for very long. Operating under the assumption that you can just stand out in the open and fire off all three volleys in a game where a quarter or more of each team goes sniper up in the mountains or on towers. That's not a very realistic assumption. Right because the they have to stand still while locking and firing...oh wait they don't. just so everyone knows the way it is currently (1.3) 0.0s start lock #1 1.2s fire #1 3.2s start lock #2 4.4s Fire #2 6.4s start lock #3 7.2s fire #3
huge buff? 3 fired before the 2nd one fires even if you only on 1.4 human reaction and not on current(1.3) |
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3334
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 23:39:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:0bi wan-jacobi wrote:Swarms will basically shoot three volleys in one second instapopping any armor tank before they can even react. This is THE stupidest thing i have seen from ccp in all my time on dust. This is one swarmer that will put out like 9000 damage in a second. **** if there two swarmers, just lol.
I dont care about the rest of the update. I dont get to enjoy the rest because ill be in a armor tank getting my **** pushed in. Now ill have too wait a month until this **** gets fixed. CCP wonders why we get pissed off when they dont tell us about the update. ITS BECAUSE WE DONT WANT STUPID **** LIKE THIS IN THE GAME. Okay, what part of Swarms breaking lock between shots, and the lock time being INCREASED do you people not understand? The ONLY thing this does is make the volley finish firing faster. You STILL have to re-lock your target after each shot. Okay, it would appear that this actually isn't good for vehicles. Seeing the numbers that are available now is quite startling. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 23:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Congratzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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