Original Thread Here

Look i'm not going to argue that armor wasn't UP before this upcoming buff because it was, but not for a lack of HP, but rather because of the high CPU/PG costs of the plates and reppers, and the steap movement speed penalties on the complex plates. With the increase in HP armor will become the defacto tank in Dust leading to even more increased HP pools and the death of the AR, and ASCR in competitive team play. Whatever non explosive weapon play style that was usefull in the game before will become an afterthought as the only weapons that will be able to kill the new armor tank will be the MD, and Flaylock (the SMG will be ok but will not be as effective as the other 2 weapons).

We will also see evermy match consist of players consuming nanohives to replace the dust players new primary weapon, the core locust grenade (if it wasn't already).

Basically what i'm trying to say is, this patch is going to place explosives to the forefront, to the point where the mass driver become more prevelant than the AR. Some of you may applaud the death of the AR, however I think that will be short lived.

Then make shields take next to no DMG from explosions.

So... Let's keep armor UP until we nerf explosives?

You're drunk. Go home.

Armour buff is fine, it's like an extra 20-30 armour a plate.

No If you read the article I agree armor needs a buff, just not a buff to HP totals. The CPU/PG cost of the plates and reppers needed to be reduced along with the movement speed penalties. It's also doesn't help that their weakness also happens to be the lamest type of weapon in the game... explosives. This HP buff isn't going to just be a huge boon for gallante and amarr either; caladari and gallante are going to see their HP totals greatly increase as everyone in this game should be omni tanking. This HP buff in the area of armor is going to greatly diminish the AR and ASCR's viability and and provide a buff to MD and core locust nades as armor tanking becomes more prevalent.

The game will always be in flux. Something wrong with stirring the pot a bit?

x5 which is 100-150ehp buff to gallante logi's (far greater than the nerf to caladi logi's). To go along with a movement seed buff.

People are freaking out over this. I can take down a heavy with my exile and chew through their armor in one clip. That's not OK. I should have to reload and dump another clip and THEN have to switch to another weapon to pull one down by myself...and by all rights he should have killed me half way through my second clip BECAUSE IM NOT SPACE RAMBO. Moral of the story- you can't put on enough armor that I can't shoot through and saying massdrivers and core locus and flaylocks oh my! Is only going to perpetuate the use of them.

Original Thread Here

Look i'm not going to argue that armor wasn't UP before this upcoming buff because it was, but not for a lack of HP, but rather because of the high CPU/PG costs of the plates and reppers, and the steap movement speed penalties on the complex plates. With the increase in HP armor will become the defacto tank in Dust leading to even more increased HP pools and the death of the AR, and ASCR in competitive team play. Whatever non explosive weapon play style that was usefull in the game before will become an afterthought as the only weapons that will be able to kill the new armor tank will be the MD, and Flaylock (the SMG will be ok but will not be as effective as the other 2 weapons).

We will also see evermy match consist of players consuming nanohives to replace the dust players new primary weapon, the core locust grenade (if it wasn't already).

Basically what i'm trying to say is, this patch is going to place explosives to the forefront, to the point where the mass driver become more prevelant than the AR. Some of you may applaud the death of the AR, however I think that will be short lived.

I run gal logi and I must say I think running 5 complex plates would be incredibly stupid yes I would have huge health, but a 25% speed penalty on a already slow and low stamina suit is just daft. Plus with the PG requirements of plates I would probably be able to carry STD equipment not to mention you would have a armour rep rate of a whopping 5hp's.

Original Thread Here

Look i'm not going to argue that armor wasn't UP before this upcoming buff because it was, but not for a lack of HP, but rather because of the high CPU/PG costs of the plates and reppers, and the steap movement speed penalties on the complex plates. With the increase in HP armor will become the defacto tank in Dust leading to even more increased HP pools and the death of the AR, and ASCR in competitive team play. Whatever non explosive weapon play style that was usefull in the game before will become an afterthought as the only weapons that will be able to kill the new armor tank will be the MD, and Flaylock (the SMG will be ok but will not be as effective as the other 2 weapons).

We will also see evermy match consist of players consuming nanohives to replace the dust players new primary weapon, the core locust grenade (if it wasn't already).

Basically what i'm trying to say is, this patch is going to place explosives to the forefront, to the point where the mass driver become more prevelant than the AR. Some of you may applaud the death of the AR, however I think that will be short lived.

Must be terrible heavies because the HMG way out DPS's the AR (with a far larger clip size). The only real way to kill a heavy quicly with an AR is with the scope up... which diminishes strafe speeds and against skilled opponents that means death.

Uh, you do realize that the high CPU/PG costs of plates and reppers that you speak of are exactly why the Armor buff will not be over the top, don't you?

The vast majority of players use Basic Plates right now because they are easy enough to fit in conjunction with complex damage mods and prototype weapons (which is what armor tanking is all about) and the enhanced and complex plates don't offer enough benefit to justify their increased CPU/PG and movement penalty cost. You make it seem like all armor tankers are suddenly going to decide to (or be able to) fit complex plates because now that they've been buffed, they are worth it. Making that assumption shows no forethought or understanding of how or why people currently armor tank.

I would bet that most shield tankers who decide to try armor tanking are going to throw up in their mouth a little bit when they realize how slow those armor HP regenerate. Not to mention how noticeable the reduction in speed will be for those used to having no penalties, even with the speed penalties being made less harsh. Armor tanking does not lend itself to every playing style and I think many players are going to find that out the hard way after dumping a bunch of SP into armor thinking it will be an easy path to domination on the battlefield.

Their are diminishing returns on the strafe speed penalty. With 5 complex plates your penalty will be very close to 10-11%. Also Dust is a team based game, teaming with a good logi and you can have 70hp/s from wyrcomi triage, and 109hp/s from core repaire tools all while still in combat. Shields can't touch that.

Good points but the triage hive means your static and since explosives do extra damage to armour and destroy hives quite easily a static player against a good player with decent grenade skills is in trouble. The rep tool is a good point but we are supposedly getting a shield equivalent eventually (probably 6 years or so then.) I know about stacking penalties but I didn't think it worked on armour plates as well I just assumed it only worked on modules that mentioned a stacking penalty.

I'm excited for the change, my cal logissault build for pubs is gonna rock.

3 enhanced plates
1 CPU mod
2 damage mods
3 extenders

Duvolle
Core locus

Ishukone gauged nanos.

This is gonna rock, can't wait for the tears.

I'm excited for the change, my cal logissault build for pubs is gonna rock.

3 enhanced plates
1 CPU mod
2 damage mods
3 extenders

Duvolle
Core locus

Ishukone gauged nanos.

This is gonna rock, can't wait for the tears.

I'm excited for the change, my cal logissault build for pubs is gonna rock.

3 enhanced plates
1 CPU mod
2 damage mods
3 extenders

Duvolle
Core locus

Ishukone gauged nanos.

This is gonna rock, can't wait for the tears.

I'm excited for the change, my cal logissault build for pubs is gonna rock.

3 enhanced plates
1 CPU mod
2 damage mods
3 extenders

Duvolle
Core locus

Ishukone gauged nanos.

This is gonna rock, can't wait for the tears.

An inferior heavy suit with no sidearm but has a nanohive...




Not sure what to say.

Original Thread Here

Look i'm not going to argue that armor wasn't UP before this upcoming buff because it was, but not for a lack of HP, but rather because of the high CPU/PG costs of the plates and reppers, and the steap movement speed penalties on the complex plates. With the increase in HP armor will become the defacto tank in Dust leading to even more increased HP pools and the death of the AR, and ASCR in competitive team play. Whatever non explosive weapon play style that was usefull in the game before will become an afterthought as the only weapons that will be able to kill the new armor tank will be the MD, and Flaylock (the SMG will be ok but will not be as effective as the other 2 weapons).

We will also see evermy match consist of players consuming nanohives to replace the dust players new primary weapon, the core locust grenade (if it wasn't already).

Basically what i'm trying to say is, this patch is going to place explosives to the forefront, to the point where the mass driver become more prevelant than the AR. Some of you may applaud the death of the AR, however I think that will be short lived.

Inferior? Not sure about that. It'll essentially be halfway between an assault and a heavy except i get 5 armor per second passive repair.

Ill probably never run it, I enjoy my equipment too much to give it all up for pure tank, but I can guarantee that there will be many people who will run the build.

Gonna be a lot of QQ for further cal logi nerfs after 1.4 drops I'm sure.

Inferior? Not sure about that. It'll essentially be halfway between an assault and a heavy except i get 5 armor per second passive repair.

Ill probably never run it, I enjoy my equipment too much to give it all up for pure tank, but I can guarantee that there will be many people who will run the build.

Gonna be a lot of QQ for further cal logi nerfs after 1.4 drops I'm sure.

Yep, I think I will be spending some time in the MCC or running with my free scout suit watching the kill feed to see how OP this update will make the dual tanked shield suits and how many Massholes will be running around.

Except that the most commonly used weapon in the game destroys armor.

Original Thread Here

Look i'm not going to argue that armor wasn't UP before this upcoming buff because it was, but not for a lack of HP, but rather because of the high CPU/PG costs of the plates and reppers, and the steap movement speed penalties on the complex plates. With the increase in HP armor will become the defacto tank in Dust leading to even more increased HP pools and the death of the AR, and ASCR in competitive team play. Whatever non explosive weapon play style that was usefull in the game before will become an afterthought as the only weapons that will be able to kill the new armor tank will be the MD, and Flaylock (the SMG will be ok but will not be as effective as the other 2 weapons).

We will also see evermy match consist of players consuming nanohives to replace the dust players new primary weapon, the core locust grenade (if it wasn't already).

Basically what i'm trying to say is, this patch is going to place explosives to the forefront, to the point where the mass driver become more prevelant than the AR. Some of you may applaud the death of the AR, however I think that will be short lived.

Well the most common wep right now is the Ar which does bonus to shields... But come 1.4 we will probably see the rise of flux and MD or combat rifle.

Well the most common wep right now is the Ar which does bonus to shields... But come 1.4 we will probably see the rise of flux and MD or combat rifle.

Who says combat rifle is coming in 1.4

I was referring to grenades. It gets so bad at times that people instinctively go for their Cores and M1s before they even consider pulling a trigger. With the current buff, Gallente can die to 2 grenades instead of 1 with the slight change of getting away.

I was referring to grenades. It gets so bad at times that people instinctively go for their Cores and M1s before they even consider pulling a trigger. With the current buff, Gallente can die to 2 grenades instead of 1 with the slight change of getting away.

Why should the ar be more important than the md? they both are light weapons... I actually like the fact that I have been seing less ars lately, it brings diversity to the game.

This is exactly why I think dual tanking shouldn't be viable. Just epic omni-tanking, specially since the CK.0 gets +5 armor repair which is a bonus it doesn't deserve, his armor repair shouldn't be on equal footing to a armor tanked suit. And since shields can take a beating he has more HP than any other suit aside from a heavy.

If the programming issues are ever cleared up we may see logi suits get some kind of equipment bonuses. Possibly at the removal of the armor-rep-bonus Logis now have.

Confirming 20 HP more per plate will make armour ludicrously OP and the 'de facto' choice of elite players everywhere.


Even in your edge case of 5x complex plates (which nobody will fit because their powergrid will overload and they'll barely be able to move) that's a difference of just a few more bullets. Of course, as you fit 5x complex plate you are also barely able to rep, unless you make use of a stationary and hard to fit item which is rather vulnerable, or have a teammate fit an item specifically to deal with you frequently. Should you be cut off from either, you can expect to die a slow and horrible death as you bleed armour in every engagement, while taking more damage each engagement because the opponent can hit you much more easily.
Alternatively, you are liable to be killed through your armour buffer because of a certain locus grenade being able to one shot through your entire buffer.

Yep, armour OP. Let's go nerf it, to say 1 extra HP per plate. How does that sound?

by that logic, shouldn't cal logis have their extender bonus back?

I mean it was only at maximum 3 more bullets we could take. However we had almost the entire forum base kicking and screaming about how OP cal logis were, and to this day the majority of the forums still hate the dropsuit just because.

x5 which is 100-150ehp buff to gallante logi's (far greater than the nerf to caladi logi's). To go along with a movement seed buff.

Cal Logis still can get more HP than any other medium suit, even a Gallente Logistics.

16 shield tankers running around with MD, Core Locus and Nanos...

the flux hits followed by MD from the other team.... where is you squad?

Yeah but only 1-2 bullets more health.

Depends what your getting shot from.

go back and reread my comments maybe, im trying to say that counting health in number of bullets is bad.

Wait wut? Isn't that what you just did...

How is it flawed, armor is less resistant to damage than shields and this is a known fact. 100 shields =/= 100 armor. The Caldari logistics could get 1100 HP, almost 700 of that HP was just in shields, while a Gallente Logistics can only max 520 HP in armor if he mitigates speed penalties. If it wasn't for the fact the suits high CPU/PG was abused to stack very powerful plates along with their extremely power shields, and a powerful gun to get HP and damage rivaling that of a heavy they wouldn't have been nerfed which is exactly why I think dual tanking shouldn't be so effective. Just because the numbers look the same doesn't mean that they are, 500 shields is more useful than 500 armor, now if lets say we have 500 shields vs 625 armor then we are closer to having equal usefulness when it comes to damage resistance. I honestly think the Caldari Logistics should get its bonus back, but only if they do something to keep it from dual tanking.

This is exactly why I think dual tanking shouldn't be viable. Just epic omni-tanking, specially since the CK.0 gets +5 armor repair which is a bonus it doesn't deserve, his armor repair shouldn't be on equal footing to a armor tanked suit. And since shields can take a beating he has more HP than any other suit aside from a heavy.

He will also be as slow as a heavy

Just crunched the numbers on the fitting I posted:

I would have 443 shields and 476 armor with all armor and shield upgrades at 5.

I would have a move speed of 4.36 as I would suffer a 7.36% move speed penalty from the 3 enhanced plates.

Fitting cost:
521 CPU (528 max with basic CPU up to 614 max with complex CPU)
99/100 PG

Could easily fit an energizer instead of an extender (if using complex CPU upgrade) and free up enough PG to run some basic/adv equipment on top of the proto nanohives.

Needs DS Eng 5, DS Elec 5, and DS Core Ups 4.

I'm excited for the change, my cal logissault build for pubs is gonna rock.

3 enhanced plates
1 CPU mod
2 damage mods
3 extenders

Duvolle
Core locus

Ishukone gauged nanos.

This is gonna rock, can't wait for the tears.

That fit is laughable to me, putting on plates without any rep. Replace that Ishukone with a repping Allotek hive (it's possible) and maybe I'm not laughing anymore. Actually, no. You are still going to die while reloading since you have no sidearm, so I will continue laughing.

That fit is laughable to me, putting on plates without any rep. Replace that Ishukone with a repping Allotek hive (it's possible) and maybe I'm not laughing anymore. Actually, no. You are still going to die while reloading since you have no sidearm, so I will continue laughing.

by that logic, shouldn't cal logis have their extender bonus back?

I mean it was only at maximum 3 more bullets we could take. However we had almost the entire forum base kicking and screaming about how OP cal logis were, and to this day the majority of the forums still hate the dropsuit just because.

The bonus was fine. It's the slot layout, and the ability to fit nine HP mods if you want to. An entire extra HP mod makes more of a difference than a couple of bullets.
All that was really required was to tweak the slot layout, not to nerf the bonus and CPU.