I think we should be able to Contact other corps to fight our battles for us, so the US players can play on their own time, and the EU players don't have to be disturbed by the US players attacking them.

I believe it's a good thing if PC dies entirely. They would then have to push for changes to FW asap, so that you could have organised fights there, instead of FW just being pub matches as it currently is.

However a few changes to PC that I would like to see, if they intend to keep it in the game.

No passive ISK. We're mercenaries, not land holders. Bigger rewards (for winning) though.
Attack warning dropped to a couple of hours (currently 24 hours). The reinforcement window is still present.
Bonuses to something EVE side the EVE players would care very much about.


Honestly though, I would much rather see EVE corps holding the districts instead of Dust corps because, as I said, we're mercenaries, not land holders. Those are the kind of things I want to see short term though.

Sounds like a carebear move bro... This is a war game... Anyone and everyone should have a chance at your district if they have the man power and funds to support it

You can.

But if the Attackers set a time that you away doing something else, you could contract somebody else to fight for you.

I think we should be able to Contact other corps to fight our battles for us, so the US players can play on their own time, and the EU players don't have to be disturbed by the US players attacking them.

You mean like MSF?

I like your idea. Couldnt hurt CCP to try new approaches. God knows what they have done so far is not working towards the success of this game outside its current 3-4k playerbase.

The following are my thoughts, and do not represent Molon Labe. EoN members, you will not want to read this as it will make your blood boil and prompt troll responses... not looking to start another flame war. Read at your own risk.
_______________________

My theory has always been that this game is failing because CCP put too much power in the hands of the player. And lets be honest, the online gaming community, specifically the elite gamers (basement dwellers, neck beards, etc, etc) are not too keen on keeping an even, level and fair playing field. If I were to make up a statistic, I would guess that 95% of elite gamers couldnt give two flying fucks if the game was fun or enjoyable for the rest of the community. They are selfish, and care about winning. And whats wrong with that? Nothing.. for a player. But for a leadership position, yeah not so good. But in reality, thats why some people play online games... they are anonymous and can act in game completely different than they are expected to act in real life with no consequences. Super successful FPS developers play the other hand.. they strive to try and create as even a playing field as possible for elite and newb players alike, balance is at the forefront of their thought process. The opposite of the players they design their games to cater to.

With that out of the way, CCP made a mistake when they thought it be a good idea to let the players run the end game. To group the top 5% of the super skilled into one corner, which was bound to happen in time with their alliance/corp structure and timed PC battles. How did they expect the other 95% to be able to do anything about it? This game model works in EvE because EvE has a PvE element. You get your butt stomped in PvP, go play PvE for a while until you are ready to step up into the big leagues. Dust lacks that aspect and I have not seen any plans to come out with something to fill the time gap in the forseeable future. Team sync faction warfare queue battles would also be a step in the right direction to help get the masses the right scenario to practice the strategys and teamwork needed to step into the PC arena. It is too late for that now.

What happens in real life when the 5% control all the power? Eventually, rebellion. That is what EoN is waiting for... they are waiting for the community to rebel against them. They want competition (or so they say) but will it come? Probably not. It could happen eventually though. The problem is that the FPS player pool as a whole are not looking for a long, drawn out game where there might be some distant hope of a rebellion in the next few months down the road, after some random player decides to step up with enough coordination and influence to rally the community to ally against the folks with the power. People who fit this criteria, lets call them "elite gamers with a conscience and brain" have probably already quit playing this game, or they have already joined the top 5% group.

Time is against us. I have gone off on a campaign to urge EoN to consider dismantling the blue donut they have created for the sake of Dust 514. This mentality has been met with much backlash, insults, name calling and ridicule. Was I expecting anything more from the people who I have so eloquently described above? Of course not. I had high hopes, but yeah did anyone really expect them to see the big picture? Nope, didnt think so.

This is not a post to derail this topic or invite EoN flames.. just a rant, vent, something to think about.

The blame is shared between CCPs flawed design and the players who continue to log into Dust everyday, who have thpower to change the entire landscape of the endgame PC, and continue business as usual.

I hate to say it, but as smokey the bear has said before on TV "Only you can stop dust from dying". This idea may not work, but honestly guys.. what do you have to lose?

Now I know you will say that you all built EoN for community, friendship, and other games after Dust 514. But what you ended up doing was building EoN to kill Dust 514.. you just didnt realize it.

The following responses are not needed as I have heard them a million times...
LOL Bullitt QQ more, learn2play, you are irrelevant, this game is already dead/dying, PC is a joke nobody cares.

Honestly I agree with most of your points the mechanics of the game should not of allowed Eon to do this.
BTW I do have a neck beard

I like your idea. Couldnt hurt CCP to try new approaches. God knows what they have done so far is not working towards the success of this game outside its current 3-4k playerbase.

The following are my thoughts, and do not represent Molon Labe. EoN members, you will not want to read this as it will make your blood boil and prompt troll responses... not looking to start another flame war. Read at your own risk.
_______________________

My theory has always been that this game is failing because CCP put too much power in the hands of the player. And lets be honest, the online gaming community, specifically the elite gamers (basement dwellers, neck beards, etc, etc) are not too keen on keeping an even, level and fair playing field. If I were to make up a statistic, I would guess that 95% of elite gamers couldnt give two flying fucks if the game was fun or enjoyable for the rest of the community. They are selfish, and care about winning. And whats wrong with that? Nothing.. for a player. But for a leadership position, yeah not so good. But in reality, thats why some people play online games... they are anonymous and can act in game completely different than they are expected to act in real life with no consequences. Super successful FPS developers play the other hand.. they strive to try and create as even a playing field as possible for elite and newb players alike, balance is at the forefront of their thought process. The opposite of the players they design their games to cater to.

With that out of the way, CCP made a mistake when they thought it be a good idea to let the players run the end game. To group the top 5% of the super skilled into one corner, which was bound to happen in time with their alliance/corp structure and timed PC battles. How did they expect the other 95% to be able to do anything about it? This game model works in EvE because EvE has a PvE element. You get your butt stomped in PvP, go play PvE for a while until you are ready to step up into the big leagues. Dust lacks that aspect and I have not seen any plans to come out with something to fill the time gap in the forseeable future. Team sync faction warfare queue battles would also be a step in the right direction to help get the masses the right scenario to practice the strategys and teamwork needed to step into the PC arena. It is too late for that now.

What happens in real life when the 5% control all the power? Eventually, rebellion. That is what EoN is waiting for... they are waiting for the community to rebel against them. They want competition (or so they say) but will it come? Probably not. It could happen eventually though. The problem is that the FPS player pool as a whole are not looking for a long, drawn out game where there might be some distant hope of a rebellion in the next few months down the road, after some random player decides to step up with enough coordination and influence to rally the community to ally against the folks with the power. People who fit this criteria, lets call them "elite gamers with a conscience and brain" have probably already quit playing this game, or they have already joined the top 5% group.

Time is against us. I have gone off on a campaign to urge EoN to consider dismantling the blue donut they have created for the sake of Dust 514. This mentality has been met with much backlash, insults, name calling and ridicule. Was I expecting anything more from the people who I have so eloquently described above? Of course not. I had high hopes, but yeah did anyone really expect them to see the big picture? Nope, didnt think so.

This is not a post to derail this topic or invite EoN flames.. just a rant, vent, something to think about.

The blame is shared between CCPs flawed design and the players who continue to log into Dust everyday, who have thpower to change the entire landscape of the endgame PC, and continue business as usual.

I hate to say it, but as smokey the bear has said before on TV "Only you can stop dust from dying". This idea may not work, but honestly guys.. what do you have to lose?

Now I know you will say that you all built EoN for community, friendship, and other games after Dust 514. But what you ended up doing was building EoN to kill Dust 514.. you just didnt realize it.

The following responses are not needed as I have heard them a million times...
LOL Bullitt QQ more, learn2play, you are irrelevant, this game is already dead/dying, PC is a joke nobody cares.

I like the idea of more active districts but there's a flaw in your comparison, if a POS enters reinforcement in EVE it costs the players essentially nothing, if someone loses all the clones on their district except 150 that's a lot of ISK they've just been cost even not counting the production levels or converting to Dust ISK.

I do want to see more active combat in PC but honestly I don't think this is the way to go about it.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Its costs them a PoS...

I understand your point but if we can control what happens in MH through PC we need a more active system... this adds a few new strats to PC

It doesn't cost them a POS unless they don't respond to the threat which is much easier to do, it also doesn't require as much for an EVE fleet to make sure they don't lose their POS in this context as it does for a Dust corp to protect their district.

The idea of making defending districts more like protecting POS, or maybe SOV is a good one, but the mechanic you suggest in the OP isn't making defending districts like that it is significantly more punishing.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Again i understand your point... But i truly don't think you understand mine

My idea is simply to make PC more active... The mechanic is broken atm... It allows for passive isk farm without loss (That is if you can defend your district)

If they changed PC to anything like i said... No alliance would be able to hold so much land (like EoN)... People could simply attack all of their 8pm district timers and wait for them to log on the next morning...

Bottom of the line is PC needs to change... And soon

I don't disagree with either the motive or the intention of your suggestion I simply find the mechanic to be problematic.
You are quite right preventing the "blue doughnut" effect is an important part of keeping PC alive and it does seem like something needs to be done to keep things from getting stagnant. The major drawback I see in your proposal is that it essentially requires the defender to lose clones without any ability to actually respond (presuming that they have more than 150 clones). That can be abused pretty heavily as a mechanic and could lead to an entirely new type of framing.
A corp, like mine for example, who fights in PC battles but does not hold turf of our own could easily farm money off of districts which have stored more than 150 clones and could do so with minimal risk or personnel.

1. Record timers and play patters for various corps/alliances
2. Choose a low activity attack window
3. Launch a plethora of attacks that we have no way to field the troops for but can drop one guy in long enough to take a single cannon and finish the match with a win.
4. {If needed} Avoid the few battles where hostile forces are actually fielded.
5. Profit.

With this sort of method even if we lose a few fights a night due to simply not trying to contest any battle which actually has hostile forces we're still going to make a net profit, if if people git wise to what we're doing? We just leave a spotter in match with any team that's deployed to tell everyone else if that team is still in the battle or if they're pulling out to go elsewhere.

This would also hit the smaller corps and alliances harder than the big ones because the smaller guys have manpower to cover their play times thus being easily suppressed into a state where their districts effectively never produce anything for them even if they never actually fight and lose a battle.

This is just one set of examples, again I agree with your intention as I understand it but I do not see this mechanic working.

0.02 ISK
Cross

PS ~ If the process and problems that I outlined would not be mechanically possible under your suggested system please explain where that is accounted for/what I may have misunderstood. I will likely continue to play "devils advocate" at the idea for awhile but if there are answers to these concerns then I'd say you've found a solid method, if there are not then we need to look for another tool to address things.

I now see your full view let me explain a little better...

Now the first 2 things you listed are what i want. New Eden has always had Meta game. This would in fact make meta that much more important. War is about strats this allows for more options then whats out atm

3 and 5. No matter what you, yourself would have to launch clones over to the district you are attacking. That is isk lost for isk gain. Thats new Edens market. plus all that profit you make in the no show attacks (that is saying they no show all the pre reinforcement fights) can be lost by losing that final attack.

4. This is why i think this would work best in PC. Simply because if you don't have the men to defend the land then you don't need it. corps with 1 16 man team wouldn't be able to hold more then 1 district on a timer.

I understand your issue with profit but right now everyone who is playing in PC ( that owns a district) Are just passively farming isk as we speak

Agreed here, a more robust meta would bring a great deal to the table.



Okay it seems I'm missing some mechanic in what you are saying because I'm not seeing where that profit is at risk for the attacker during any point of the process.

Here's my understanding, please point out where I'm going off track from your suggestion.
Attacker hits a no show battle, attacker wins that battle costing the defender the minimum clone loss and thus reaping the ISK gains of the biomass/theft mechanics. Having profited even above the cost of the clone pack the attacker simply seeds the actual fight at the 150 clone mark not caring what happens to the defender or their district because the attacker has already profited and has no 'skin in the game'.

So, what did I miss?


I totally agree that there is a problem with what's happening now and I want to reiterate that I support the intent of your change but from my current understanding it won't eliminate farming it will simply move the mechanic of what is required to farm.

Cheers,
Cross

I like your idea. Couldnt hurt CCP to try new approaches. God knows what they have done so far is not working towards the success of this game outside its current 3-4k playerbase.

The following are my thoughts, and do not represent Molon Labe. EoN members, you will not want to read this as it will make your blood boil and prompt troll responses... not looking to start another flame war. Read at your own risk.
_______________________

My theory has always been that this game is failing because CCP put too much power in the hands of the player. And lets be honest, the online gaming community, specifically the elite gamers (basement dwellers, neck beards, etc, etc) are not too keen on keeping an even, level and fair playing field. If I were to make up a statistic, I would guess that 95% of elite gamers couldnt give two flying fucks if the game was fun or enjoyable for the rest of the community. They are selfish, and care about winning. And whats wrong with that? Nothing.. for a player. But for a leadership position, yeah not so good. But in reality, thats why some people play online games... they are anonymous and can act in game completely different than they are expected to act in real life with no consequences. Super successful FPS developers play the other hand.. they strive to try and create as even a playing field as possible for elite and newb players alike, balance is at the forefront of their thought process. The opposite of the players they design their games to cater to.

With that out of the way, CCP made a mistake when they thought it be a good idea to let the players run the end game. To group the top 5% of the super skilled into one corner, which was bound to happen in time with their alliance/corp structure and timed PC battles. How did they expect the other 95% to be able to do anything about it? This game model works in EvE because EvE has a PvE element. You get your butt stomped in PvP, go play PvE for a while until you are ready to step up into the big leagues. Dust lacks that aspect and I have not seen any plans to come out with something to fill the time gap in the forseeable future. Team sync faction warfare queue battles would also be a step in the right direction to help get the masses the right scenario to practice the strategys and teamwork needed to step into the PC arena. It is too late for that now.

What happens in real life when the 5% control all the power? Eventually, rebellion. That is what EoN is waiting for... they are waiting for the community to rebel against them. They want competition (or so they say) but will it come? Probably not. It could happen eventually though. The problem is that the FPS player pool as a whole are not looking for a long, drawn out game where there might be some distant hope of a rebellion in the next few months down the road, after some random player decides to step up with enough coordination and influence to rally the community to ally against the folks with the power. People who fit this criteria, lets call them "elite gamers with a conscience and brain" have probably already quit playing this game, or they have already joined the top 5% group.

Time is against us. I have gone off on a campaign to urge EoN to consider dismantling the blue donut they have created for the sake of Dust 514. This mentality has been met with much backlash, insults, name calling and ridicule. Was I expecting anything more from the people who I have so eloquently described above? Of course not. I had high hopes, but yeah did anyone really expect them to see the big picture? Nope, didnt think so.

This is not a post to derail this topic or invite EoN flames.. just a rant, vent, something to think about.

The blame is shared between CCPs flawed design and the players who continue to log into Dust everyday, who have thpower to change the entire landscape of the endgame PC, and continue business as usual.

I hate to say it, but as smokey the bear has said before on TV "Only you can stop dust from dying". This idea may not work, but honestly guys.. what do you have to lose?

Now I know you will say that you all built EoN for community, friendship, and other games after Dust 514. But what you ended up doing was building EoN to kill Dust 514.. you just didnt realize it.

The following responses are not needed as I have heard them a million times...
LOL Bullitt QQ more, learn2play, you are irrelevant, this game is already dead/dying, PC is a joke nobody cares.

I dont play eve, just going off what I have learned from others. Thanks for that input, good to know. Glad there can be some sort of constructive talks in this forum, as opposed to the Troll Room.