Bacon

This seems like an appropriate answer to me.

I do not think the CPM represents me. To be fair their job was to get some-kind of structure going and bringing forum things the Dev's missed to CCPs attention. Went the whole cautiously hopeful route but that died soon as the Planetary-Conquest-Gate scandal happened.

Probably best to just chill and see what comes of CPM0.

This seems like an appropriate answer to me.

CPM0 is not a represntative body, they are creating a framework for the first CPM to work in. Right now they are trying to fix the communication system between the CPM and the Devs, Because if that doesn't work, why spend resources, time, and money electing a CPM if they will not be able to get anything done.

These folks are not trying to represent you, they are trying to get a system in place so others can.

CPM0 is not a represntative body, they are creating a framework for the first CPM to work in. Right now they are trying to fix the communication system between the CPM and the Devs, Because if that doesn't work, why spend resources, time, and money electing a CPM if they will not be able to get anything done.

These folks are not trying to represent you, they are trying to get a system in place so others can.

What I'd like to know is how many CPMs actually play Dust on a regular basis, feels to me the majority of them are EVE players, with the mentality that Dust should work exactely like EVE, which has done nothing but make this game a failure so far...

Funny thing is the CPM thing is taking a lot of time away from Eve as well. Kain is in the business mogul side of things though most of that is afk profits though. I retired to some quiet corner of high sec and I watch over a lab. Not sure where the others are in Eve. Hans is a Faction Warfare fanatic. So far its been pretty useful background knowledge when dealing with out counterparts when we have to talk about the link with them. At least we're knowledgeable enough to poke them about just anything involving everything involving Eve.

I wished I can say the same for our own counterparts in eve playing Dust 514 though... One guy insisted that the "Gallente Medic" among 3 other suits (amarr heavy, minmatar scout, and caldari assault) had to be nerfed first before fixing the link and the entire CPM was like

Funny thing is the CPM thing is taking a lot of time away from Eve as well. Kain is in the business mogul side of things though most of that is afk profits though. I retired to some quiet corner of high sec and I watch over a lab. Not sure where the others are in Eve. Hans is a Faction Warfare fanatic. So far its been pretty useful background knowledge when dealing with out counterparts when we have to talk about the link with them. At least we're knowledgeable enough to poke them about just anything involving everything involving Eve.

I wished I can say the same for our own counterparts in eve playing Dust 514 though... One guy insisted that the "Gallente Medic" among 3 other suits (amarr heavy, minmatar scout, and caldari assault) had to be nerfed first before fixing the link and the entire CPM was like

This week's theme on tales of an omni-soldier, ninjas gallente styled. :( Currently doing very badly.

It's funny too that you couldn't just leave this alone and see what the community had to say without the CPM jumping in.

Don't get me wrong they are also trying to represent the Community the best they can to show why they need better communication. They work insanely hard. I know all of them. They work harder than any of us will ever know, on things we will probably never see. And they do in fact try to represent the community the best they can, but that's not their job. It's not what they were meant to be doing.

Honestly it is a broken record majority of the time or worse yet an Echo Chamber.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I tried to say as much, but told I was "silly" for saying that they should be focusing on making elections possible rather than trying to shape Dust. Shaping Dust is, IMHO, what CPM1 should be doing considering they would be elected.

Is this your opinion of the community's views?

Lol Silly you.

Shaping the CPM is the primary goal of CPM 0 and every subsequent CPM from now on.
Shaping the entire council does NOT stop with CPM0 nor should it. Eve CSM is still being developed to this day and this is probably going to the the second hardest fight to battle for the CPM is to catch up to the CSM where they are in terms of relationship to the community and the developers.

I wrote shaping "Dust" not the CPM. As an unelected body, I fail to see why you should be shaping Dust aside from prepping for CPM1.

Well there is this one change coming down the pipes. I among all other CPM members are doing our best to prevent it because if it does go through... we're predicting a bunch of pitchforks and torches. CPM raised enough hell that the post explaining the changes has been so far delayed a week. So far still no resolution though so I got my fingers crossed and would be happy to tell you all about it once it's resolution is made public.

The most notable change the CPM pushed forward from the community and did get through was the Planetary Conquest changes for '1.3' the re-attacking and successful defense portion.

There are bunch of other very small things that have been done because they been tunneled through the CPM

I for one would not let these things continue to rot the game when I can poke a dev about it and get something done. CPM are not designers we're just sanity checks.

Funny thing is the CPM thing is taking a lot of time away from Eve as well. Kain is in the business mogul side of things though most of that is afk profits though. I retired to some quiet corner of high sec and I watch over a lab. Not sure where the others are in Eve. Hans is a Faction Warfare fanatic. So far its been pretty useful background knowledge when dealing with out counterparts when we have to talk about the link with them. At least we're knowledgeable enough to poke them about just anything involving everything involving Eve.

I wished I can say the same for our own counterparts in eve playing Dust 514 though... One guy insisted that the "Gallente Medic" among 3 other suits (amarr heavy, minmatar scout, and caldari assault) had to be nerfed first before fixing the link and the entire CPM was like

This week's theme on tales of an omni-soldier, ninjas gallente styled. :( Currently doing very badly.

Aye which is why we're getting a meeting with the CSM and CCP pretty soon about the link. I want something solid enough that a major eve powerhouse would try to invade Molden Heath for it thus forcing more regions to open up.

We're eons away from Null warfare.

Scandal?

/me grabs popcorn.

It seems he was talking about the market, not PC other than PC is only important to Eve players. Isn't this what you just said too - you want to make PC more important to Eve players?

Links of importance includes the following interactions

Corporations & Alliances,
Economy,
Interplaying.

The way I see it the pre-requisite for us having any business with eve trading/isk transfers is that our OWN trading is made available. By this manner this gives isk true value. Because as it stands now there is nearly no difference between a player with 8 billion isk and 80 million isk if they're not the sort into hiring other people. By allowing players to trade their own items to other players for isk suddenly that 8 billion isk means much more.

Corporation tools need to vastly improve and catch up to eve's own, to which in itself needs a massive maul over. While a minor piece of the puzzle its the critically important edge of it at least.

Then Interplay.
"The Why should I care if TEST alliance is falling apart?" - A Dust Bunny
"The Why should I care if a bunch of dust bunnies are getting steamrolled by EON?" - An Egger

Improving how both games play with each other will increase the value of an eve player to a dust player and vice versa. You would care if the guy that was supposed to be OB support and hire proper escorts, your eve pilot will care enough that he will break through hell just to make sure you got that game winning OB your team desperately needed. To do this you have to make both sides care, quite a bit.

This all and all is rather tricky, we do currently know that the Starbase bonuses are not cutting it and will have to provide something else. Suggestions are many and myriad and ultimately we're not there in many places but we want CCP to start thinking about better ways of improving the link before the commit to something stupid that isn't going to work which the last idea CCP threw to us CPM went lol and when brought to the CSM's attention they pretty much agreed at the lameness of it. I would be absolutely mad if they go ahead with it. True Eve pilots will benefit from it, however its nothing to write home about or start a multi-month/year war over.

Who here thinks the CPM represents them?

Let's get - yes for the CPM represents me, or no for the CPM doesn't represent me.

I'd like to see.

BTW, my vote is no.

Scandal?

/me grabs popcorn.

The foreknowledge of several groups planning to exploit the PC game mechanics and then intentionally withholding said information. Personal gain over the health of the game.

It was kind of a big deal on the forums. Outrage actually. People called for removal of CPM members.

That scandal.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I tried to say as much, but told I was "silly" for saying that they should be focusing on making elections possible rather than trying to shape Dust. Shaping Dust is, IMHO, what CPM1 should be doing considering they would be elected.

Well from what I seen most of the stuff was out in the public by the time everyone got to mess with it.

Well from what I seen most of the stuff was out in the public by the time everyone got to mess with it.

Who here thinks the CPM represents them?

Let's get - yes for the CPM represents me, or no for the CPM doesn't represent me.

I'd like to see.

BTW, my vote is no.

What is Awoxing/Jenzing if you don't mind me asking?

I remember plenty of conversations about Awoxing (wasn't named as such) before PC was even remotely announced.

CPM0 is not a represntative body, they are creating a framework for the first CPM to work in. Right now they are trying to fix the communication system between the CPM and the Devs, Because if that doesn't work, why spend resources, time, and money electing a CPM if they will not be able to get anything done.

These folks are not trying to represent you, they are trying to get a system in place so others can.

Who here thinks the CPM represents them?

Let's get - yes for the CPM represents me, or no for the CPM doesn't represent me.

I'd like to see.

BTW, my vote is no.

No, I rarely see CPM conversing with the forumers on game related issues. Iron Wolf is probably the only one who keeps in contact with us but he doesnt really represent a majority of the community but more as an individual player who sees other people having a problem. Most of the stuff CPM do for CCP is hush hush or very discreet so we dont even know what they do for us.

CPM should be more open with the community and people should react to their tag like we do for CCP devs ( -SoxFour). Thats just my opinion.

Lol Buster, this has not turned out the way you thought, hey? You thought you'd get hundreds of people shouting, "No! The CPM doesn't represent s**t!" but what you actually got has been 4 pages and only a handful of people agreeing with you. Will you stop now? Doubt it.

What you should really take from all of this is that we don't need anyone representing us right now. We need someone to make a framework so that we can be represented in the future - that is what the CPM is doing. That is why they're called CPM0 and not CPM1 - they are not a 'real' CPM; they are pre-CPM.

When the CPM is eventually elected, I highly doubt anyone will be running with the thought that they want to spend their entire time trying to figure out how to interact effectively with CCP. I don't think anyone is going to want to be searching around to find out who in CCP to talk to about their electorate's concerns. CPM1 will be wanting to get things done and be able to represent the players effectively - they will not be able to even remotely do this without CPM0 setting up the framework for all this now like they are.

TL:DR - there is no point having representation when there's no way to represent and the people being represented to aren't there/listening.

Please, elaborate why not. Otherwise, it's just another QQ post by a child.

The CPM isn't here to represent you no matter who says how many times.

For them to represent you, you are meant to have voted them in, so this thread is pointless.

They are doing an ok job, some more than others but that's to be expected.

As long as they focus more on how to sort the CPM frame work I don't care, although I've not seen any discussion on that and we are nearly a 4 months into it?

Nope

Im a vehicle guy

LAVs/HAVs and loldropships

I am not represented at all

I do also see people saying exactly what I've said, and that is that the CPM should be working on getting an elected version in place.

I guess it's just more important to me than most. No biggie, I'm used to not being supported by the majority, and that isn't a bad thing.

I haven't seen a single person in this thread saying 'exactly what you've said' and no one calling for elections ASAP, so please direct me to anything I've missed here.

I appreciate that you're doing all this in at least a respectful and moderate manner (which is much more approachable than some other posters on these forums) but I think you're in a pretty small minority on this exact matter.

See Captain-Awesome's quote. That's pretty much my viewpoint word for word. He's not the first in this thread either.

But he hasn't said anything about needing elections ASAP like you've been advocating. No one agrees with that.

Buster Friendly:

Where were you during the initial CPM discussion? IMO, you are just roadblocking any progress by senselessly demanding representation within an incomplete system.

Also, by suggesting that only voting gives proper representation, then, if we were to vote tomorrow within our community of 5000-8000 ish players, then the player based doubled over the next year, would the CPM represent that added player base? Because by your logic, every new player to the game that doesn't get a chance to vote for the CPM is default, not represented by them.

My thought is that CPM0's job is to prepare for CPM1. Elections are a part of that. Shaping and balancing the playstyles/gamemodes/weapons of Dust isn't.

What do CPM0 have to do with elections? CCP will sort out the elections, not the CPM. CPM0 is preparing for CPM1 - anything else is just being done because it happens to be coinciding with their period in office and it needs to be done.

What exactly do you want? It seems like you want elections ASAP - am I wrong?

What I want, is a CPM that is representative of the players, elected of the players. The whole point of the CPM is to represent the players - they can't do that without having been elected.

It's not just about taking the majority opinion to CCP, it's about representing minority opinions too. With an elected CPM you'd have this because members would be elected based on their ideas, agendas, and plans. We don't have this currently with the unelected CPM.

It seems he was talking about the market, not PC other than PC is only important to Eve players. Isn't this what you just said too - you want to make PC more important to Eve players?

This is my thought too. I see CPM members commenting in here. Why is it taking so long to set up elections?

I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting to get to the point where we have elected representatives. Its a lot of fun watching it all on the EVE side, and its cool to see voting blocks come together. We will get there, so all we are left with is the timing of the elections.

Right now though, i keep asking myself the question:

"Would elections now be a benefit or a detriment to the game?"

Since CMP0 is struggling to get any form of meaningful back and forth out of CCP, i feel like new elected representatives, who have not yet been able to build up a relationship with CCP, who have not yet been able to prove to CCP their value, would essentially be starting over.

The relationship and trust in EVE between the CSM / CCP is why it is as strong as it is today, not because it represents the players extraordinarily well. EVE devs know they can count on the CSM and so they use it. We absolutely have to get the CPM and CCP working together before we can fix anything, and for that we need CCP to know and trust the CPM.

An election could very well reset the relationship between the CPM and CCP, so I have to think waiting until that link is stronger is the way to proceed. Get CCP to accept the CPM, get them using the CPM, then once we do an election they already know the value, putting our elected representatives in a position where they can do some good, and not forcing them to repeat work that CPM0 is doing.

Well there is this one change coming down the pipes. I along with all other CPM members are doing our best to prevent it because if it does go through... we're predicting a bunch of pitchforks and torches. CPM raised enough hell that the post explaining the changes has been so far delayed a week. So far still no resolution though so I got my fingers crossed and would be happy to tell you all about it once it's resolution is made public.

[...]

But dude, how do you know what I want? I think this is a point you're missing. You're helping shape the game for me....without involving me.