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Azri Sarum wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

This is my thought too. I see CPM members commenting in here. Why is it taking so long to set up elections?

I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting to get to the point where we have elected representatives. Its a lot of fun watching it all on the EVE side, and its cool to see voting blocks come together. We will get there, so all we are left with is the timing of the elections.

Right now though, i keep asking myself the question:

"Would elections now be a benefit or a detriment to the game?"

Since CMP0 is struggling to get any form of meaningful back and forth out of CCP, i feel like new elected representatives, who have not yet been able to build up a relationship with CCP, who have not yet been able to prove to CCP their value, would essentially be starting over.

The relationship and trust in EVE between the CSM / CCP is why it is as strong as it is today, not because it represents the players extraordinarily well. EVE devs know they can count on the CSM and so they use it. We absolutely have to get the CPM and CCP working together before we can fix anything, and for that we need CCP to know and trust the CPM.

An election could very well reset the relationship between the CPM and CCP, so I have to think waiting until that link is stronger is the way to proceed. Get CCP to accept the CPM, get them using the CPM, then once we do an election they already know the value, putting our elected representatives in a position where they can do some good, and not forcing them to repeat work that CPM0 is doing.


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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7182	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:19:00 - [1] - Quote Hickory Smoked Honey Glazed Bacon!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7182	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:22:00 - [2] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: I do not think the CPM represents me. To be fair their job was to get some-kind of structure going and bringing forum things the Dev's missed to CCPs attention. Went the whole cautiously hopeful route but that died soon as the Planetary-Conquest-Gate scandal happened. Probably best to just chill and see what comes of CPM0. Scandal? /me grabs popcorn.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7185	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:34:00 - [3] - Quote LuckyLuke Wargan wrote: What I'd like to know is how many CPMs actually play Dust on a regular basis, feels to me the majority of them are EVE players, with the mentality that Dust should work exactely like EVE, which has done nothing but make this game a failure so far... Funny thing is the CPM thing is taking a lot of time away from Eve as well. Kain is in the business mogul side of things though most of that is afk profits though. I retired to some quiet corner of high sec and I watch over a lab. Not sure where the others are in Eve. Hans is a Faction Warfare fanatic. So far its been pretty useful background knowledge when dealing with out counterparts when we have to talk about the link with them. At least we're knowledgeable enough to poke them about just anything involving everything involving Eve. I wished I can say the same for our own counterparts in eve playing Dust 514 though... One guy insisted that the "Gallente Medic" among 3 other suits (amarr heavy, minmatar scout, and caldari assault) had to be nerfed first before fixing the link and the entire CPM was like
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7185	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:38:00 - [4] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: It's funny too that you couldn't just leave this alone and see what the community had to say without the CPM jumping in. Honestly it is a broken record majority of the time or worse yet an Echo Chamber.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7185	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:42:00 - [5] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Don't get me wrong they are also trying to represent the Community the best they can to show why they need better communication. They work insanely hard. I know all of them. They work harder than any of us will ever know, on things we will probably never see. And they do in fact try to represent the community the best they can, but that's not their job. It's not what they were meant to be doing. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I tried to say as much, but told I was "silly" for saying that they should be focusing on making elections possible rather than trying to shape Dust. Shaping Dust is, IMHO, what CPM1 should be doing considering they would be elected. Lol Silly you. Shaping the CPM is the primary goal of CPM 0 and every subsequent CPM from now on. Shaping the entire council does NOT stop with CPM0 nor should it. Eve CSM is still being developed to this day and this is probably going to the the second hardest fight to battle for the CPM is to catch up to the CSM where they are in terms of relationship to the community and the developers. Buster Friently wrote: Is this your opinion of the community's views? No, mostly those who think the CPM are utterly useless, don't represent folks, needs to be elected in, and don't do an ounce of self educating a bit of all the things CPM does do behind the closed NDA doors. I haven't heard a new argument in over... 2 months now was it? Last one citing that we're a distraction for both community and CCP. I highly recommend reading all the CSM summit minutes (ALL OF THEM) they should shed some sort of idea what is going on in terms of work being done by the CPM.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7186	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:50:00 - [6] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: I wrote shaping "Dust" not the CPM. As an unelected body, I fail to see why you should be shaping Dust aside from prepping for CPM1. Well there is this one change coming down the pipes. I among all other CPM members are doing our best to prevent it because if it does go through... we're predicting a bunch of pitchforks and torches. CPM raised enough hell that the post explaining the changes has been so far delayed a week. So far still no resolution though so I got my fingers crossed and would be happy to tell you all about it once it's resolution is made public. The most notable change the CPM pushed forward from the community and did get through was the Planetary Conquest changes for '1.3' the re-attacking and successful defense portion. There are bunch of other very small things that have been done because they been tunneled through the CPM I for one would not let these things continue to rot the game when I can poke a dev about it and get something done. CPM are not designers we're just sanity checks. Also the CPM is part of dust as every much bit CSM is part of Eve. Developing the CPM is developing Dust. If you have to ask why look no further to Eve Online and why is it the only MMO left over 5 years old that is still gaining subs every year. Trust me has nothing to do with the game which by a lot of standards is considerably subpar to some of these massive multi million dollar project mmos that fall flat on their faces these days.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7186	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:56:00 - [7] - Quote What would be wrong is to sit by and do nothing while so much and many other things can be done while waiting on one particular developer to get done drafting the white papers, right now he's on vacation somewhere I think.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7187	Posted - 2013.08.13 05:02:00 - [8] - Quote Aye which is why we're getting a meeting with the CSM and CCP pretty soon about the link. I want something solid enough that a major eve powerhouse would try to invade Molden Heath for it thus forcing more regions to open up. We're eons away from Null warfare.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7188	Posted - 2013.08.13 05:20:00 - [9] - Quote Links of importance includes the following interactions Corporations & Alliances, Economy, Interplaying. The way I see it the pre-requisite for us having any business with eve trading/isk transfers is that our OWN trading is made available. By this manner this gives isk true value. Because as it stands now there is nearly no difference between a player with 8 billion isk and 80 million isk if they're not the sort into hiring other people. By allowing players to trade their own items to other players for isk suddenly that 8 billion isk means much more. Corporation tools need to vastly improve and catch up to eve's own, to which in itself needs a massive maul over. While a minor piece of the puzzle its the critically important edge of it at least. Then Interplay. "The Why should I care if TEST alliance is falling apart?" - A Dust Bunny "The Why should I care if a bunch of dust bunnies are getting steamrolled by EON?" - An Egger Improving how both games play with each other will increase the value of an eve player to a dust player and vice versa. You would care if the guy that was supposed to be OB support and hire proper escorts, your eve pilot will care enough that he will break through hell just to make sure you got that game winning OB your team desperately needed. To do this you have to make both sides care, quite a bit. This all and all is rather tricky, we do currently know that the Starbase bonuses are not cutting it and will have to provide something else. Suggestions are many and myriad and ultimately we're not there in many places but we want CCP to start thinking about better ways of improving the link before the commit to something stupid that isn't going to work which the last idea CCP threw to us CPM went lol and when brought to the CSM's attention they pretty much agreed at the lameness of it. I would be absolutely mad if they go ahead with it. True Eve pilots will benefit from it, however its nothing to write home about or start a multi-month/year war over.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7190	Posted - 2013.08.13 06:14:00 - [10] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: I do not think the CPM represents me. To be fair their job was to get some-kind of structure going and bringing forum things the Dev's missed to CCPs attention. Went the whole cautiously hopeful route but that died soon as the Planetary-Conquest-Gate scandal happened. Probably best to just chill and see what comes of CPM0. Scandal? /me grabs popcorn. The foreknowledge of several groups planning to exploit the PC game mechanics and then intentionally withholding said information. Personal gain over the health of the game. It was kind of a big deal on the forums. Outrage actually. People called for removal of CPM members. That scandal. Well from what I seen most of the stuff was out in the public by the time everyone got to mess with it.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7192	Posted - 2013.08.13 06:59:00 - [11] - Quote I remember plenty of conversations about Awoxing (wasn't named as such) before PC was even remotely announced.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7219	Posted - 2013.08.13 21:42:00 - [12] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: Buster Friently wrote: This is my thought too. I see CPM members commenting in here. Why is it taking so long to set up elections? I don't think anyone would disagree with wanting to get to the point where we have elected representatives. Its a lot of fun watching it all on the EVE side, and its cool to see voting blocks come together. We will get there, so all we are left with is the timing of the elections. Right now though, i keep asking myself the question: "Would elections now be a benefit or a detriment to the game?" Since CMP0 is struggling to get any form of meaningful back and forth out of CCP, i feel like new elected representatives, who have not yet been able to build up a relationship with CCP, who have not yet been able to prove to CCP their value, would essentially be starting over. The relationship and trust in EVE between the CSM / CCP is why it is as strong as it is today, not because it represents the players extraordinarily well. EVE devs know they can count on the CSM and so they use it. We absolutely have to get the CPM and CCP working together before we can fix anything, and for that we need CCP to know and trust the CPM. An election could very well reset the relationship between the CPM and CCP, so I have to think waiting until that link is stronger is the way to proceed. Get CCP to accept the CPM, get them using the CPM, then once we do an election they already know the value, putting our elected representatives in a position where they can do some good, and not forcing them to repeat work that CPM0 is doing. I wonder how much worse off the current CPM would be without Hans though, this isn't his first rodeo and he was a previous CSM member and knows the ropes. Chances are there is a full relation with all fresh seats right now not only would they have to start back at 0 possibly but even be further back behind. I know there are players who feel the CPM isn't doing anything but as I pointed back earlier majority of the CPM victories will be silent and unsung.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7322	Posted - 2013.08.15 18:26:00 - [13] - Quote ... I can sit here all day and try to explain something to the best of my ability without breaking the NDA and getting nowhere because of it and I doubt the events going on right now with the CPM and CCP will never leave closed doors. Just trust me when I say that an election at this very moment and now is not healthy and may just result CPM 1 being the last one. Until things start clearing up in the to remotely start looking like mud in a monsoon I would ask for an election until then. Just right now things are a bit tough inside and the CPM been hammering away pretty hard lately and need to back off a little bit for now, giving CCP proper time to counter. Also there is always a chance the guy you elect can just as likely still not involve you (even if you vote for him and he wins) at least you get the option to vote him out in a term. Though there are just players that just don't give a damn about re-elections and want a year of their own agenda. To be honest if you are really that concerned about shaping the game there is the councillors chambers for the major bigger than game issues, and features and ideas for new things, technical bugs for bug reporting, and ultimately your own sociable actions in game can have far more actionable impact than a simple vote. Like preparing to be a candidate for the CPM elections, building a small media empire of your own to help elect a guy that best aligns to your corp's interests.