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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2013.08.12 02:37:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not talking about making the radius smaller, or reducing the damage, I'm talking about making it spherical rather than the flat horizontal disc it is now. I think it's fairly important as it affects how people handle battlefield situations involving weapon AOE effects. I've actually had mercs evade my weapon/grenade damage just by jumping above the plane of effect. I've also experienced mercs taking me out with AOE damage at point blank range because they were standing on something knee high to me or jumping at the time of detonation so they don't damage/kill themselves. This is something that should have been taken care of a long time ago.
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 4	Posted - 2013.08.12 03:07:00 - [2] - Quote Super +1. Really this should be obvious. But then, CCP logic.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1575	Posted - 2013.08.12 03:11:00 - [3] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Super +1. Really this should be obvious. But then, CCP logic. CCP has claimed, on more than one occasion, that the blast damage is already spherical. Personally, I think their measurements are off - the 1 foot = 1 meter issue, but they claim this isn't the case too. I have seen people jump over splash damage, and I've seen other weird situations too, so I'd like CCP to take a fresh look at splash damage - because something is still wrong.
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 858	Posted - 2013.08.12 04:40:00 - [4] - Quote I think it is better now than it has been there is still the odd period of weirdness but the last fix had helped a little. For example pre-fix I tested shooting myself in the foot with an MD it hurt, I then tried standing on the top step of stairs and shooting my MD one step below and 9/10 nothing happened. Now it appears to be more like 1/10 so its getting there but its not quite perfect but the aiming and hit detection need work so it could be this instead and the splash might be perfect. All I know is with CCP we may never know the truth.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1030	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:07:00 - [5] - Quote We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 1576	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:31:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Thanks
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1443	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:53:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Thank you for both the information and the further look into the matter. Armed with this new info I now need to pull together a testing protocol for how those pesky scouts (and some Cal suits) are capable of using AoE weapons against me at close range without taking visible health damage themselves (up to this point I was sure it was circle vs sphere related which anecdotally seemed to fit the facts) Again, thanks for the update Cross
Cryius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 18	Posted - 2013.08.12 06:01:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. can you fix the hit detection on the plasma cannon. the largest issue i seen is direct damage to the point it went right through dropsuits when neither the shooter or the target was moving.
The World isMine Defective by Design 15	Posted - 2013.08.12 06:39:00 - [9] - Quote I am a MD user and yes the AOE is not spherical. it seems to have a plane and i can mostly dodge not dying by jumping just before i launch shells at my feet. also Flux grenades don't seem to work well. CCP should take notes from other games on mechanics and how people should be shot. Grenades in this game never seem to act right. The recoil animation feels more like a third person shooter instead of a FPS. the gun should have a kick and dispersion not just a dispersion. GO LOOK AT BF3. You will see what im talking about.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1032	Posted - 2013.08.12 09:56:00 - [10] - Quote Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion.


Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 325	Posted - 2013.08.12 10:13:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Hope.
steadyhand amarr Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1061	Posted - 2013.08.12 10:49:00 - [12] - Quote I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 266	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:12:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Here comes the nerf bat. At least I started using the nova knife until that gets nerfed as well.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 266	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:18:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. I suicide with the mass driver a lot. people just get mad because they want to charge you. All im asking is keep game play tactics in mind before you start swinging the nerf bat.....
G Torq ALTA B2O 196	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:26:00 - [15] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for This has, literally, been said about EVERY release/build since december (possibly before that). Evidently, every release/build from CCP has been excellent so far, since the game is still being played and discussed, and thus we have every reason to expect that 1.4 and later will also be excellent!
Arc-08 Horizons' Edge Orion Empire 34	Posted - 2013.08.12 12:13:00 - [16] - Quote G Torq wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for This has, literally, been said about EVERY release/build since december (possibly before that). Evidently, every release/build from CCP has been excellent so far, since the game is still being played and discussed, and thus we have every reason to expect that 1.4 and later will also be excellent! i wouldn't say excelent, but CCP has still done an amazing job with their updates, one update has never made me (upset angry or want to quit the game) of course each update has it's bug's and things it needs to have fixed, but i have been consistently satisfied with each of their updates. not that everything they do is all dandy and good XD but you get the point
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 180	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote I get hit by my own splash when I jump. It gives me a better angle to hit you when I jump(also a bit of evasion) which is why I do it.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1446	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:54:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 20	Posted - 2013.08.12 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. When are we actually going to get details about what is in the 1.4 release I have heard nothing about it, not even vague outlines except what I hear from devs giving very brief blurbs about it in the forum like you just did. Also for explosion damage, I have seen players hiding behind slanted walks/ramps, where I could obviously see them, my gernade landed right next to them on the ramp, they were to the side of it, I can visibly see them and the explosion should have hit them, being it is a 6.6m explosion they were not damaged at all from this, the rough distance the gernade landed and exploded was 2-3 m and they were clearly visible. Also, you are referencing 1.5 now, any notes or hints what is going to be in there as a list of topics, just a list of topics for the 1.4 would be great also, even if no real details are provided as long as an approx date for when we will get the details is included or least suggested.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1585	Posted - 2013.08.12 16:15:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. I've seen you guys mention the FOV making distances look short before, but this doesn't affect people jumping over explosions. Seriously, any MD explosion should apply damage to a distance, at minimum, to the height of a dropsuit. This is what I wonder about.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2462	Posted - 2013.08.12 17:06:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Or it could be that my post was entirely neglected a look-over and the splash radius for the user is different than for the target you're firing at.... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99917 All you guys have to do is -read-, it's not going to kill anyone. Sorry for sounding frustrated but I can't fathom why this would be considered a "hit detection/lag compensation" issue when the code is different for target/user...
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 301	Posted - 2013.08.13 00:08:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Thanks for the reply, but it's still a bit frustrating when I'm two step outside melee range with a MD user and he still takes me down, while bunny hopping, without seeming to damage/kill himself too.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1044	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:25:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Or it could be that my post was entirely neglected a look-over and the splash radius for the user is different than for the target you're firing at.... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99917 All you guys have to do is -read-, it's not going to kill anyone. Sorry for sounding frustrated but I can't fathom why this would be considered a "hit detection/lag compensation" issue when the code is different for target/user... It wasn't neglected, it's actually open on my screen atm and is one of the reasons why we're looking in to splash again. It's just tough to comment on every single post you read and I wont have much to say until we've had a chance to poke around and see what's up :-)

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 185	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:32:00 - [24] - Quote If you commented on every post that Aeon Amadi wrote, you would have no time to code stuff :)
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1599	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:39:00 - [25] - Quote Maybe distance, as in splash radius, is being measured from impact point to the center point of a target player rather than the closest extremity point? This would explain a lot of what I see regarding splash oddities.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1044	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:53:00 - [26] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross Ok dokey... In the case of a direct hit only direct damage is applied to the target. Splash is not applied to the target but will be applied to any others that happen to be in range. A headshot modifier would apply if the explosion hits your head. A series of checks are done to different body parts and splash is applied to the first one it hits (typically not the head). I would need to check on vehicles, I'm not sure how splash is applied to the regular body Vs weak spots.

Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F 1350	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:00:00 - [27] - Quote wait... vehicles have weak spots?????
Cosgar ParagonX 4141	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:19:00 - [28] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: wait... vehicles have weak spots????? Everything takes more damage from behind.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 497	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:27:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: wait... vehicles have weak spots????? Everything takes more damage from behind. except infantry....
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 77	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:32:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 21	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:37:00 - [31] - Quote Rail guns have about a 5% chance to deliver splash damage... And only if you hit their toes. I've tries getting splash on stationary targets with little effect. It's either direct.. Or nothing. Had a tank blow up vs a forge gunner with 100 hp left cause the rail gun ... Doesn't do splash.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2475	Posted - 2013.08.13 03:09:00 - [32] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99917 READ IT READ IT READ IT READ IT READ IT READ IT READ IT READ IT Seriously, I get so tired of trying to explain to you people that Direct Damage and Splash Damage don't combine. They -DONT-. Ever. At all. Never. It does not happen. Like, seriously. I've said it on the forums a hundred thousand times and I have multiple threads with video evidence. It does not happen. It's a freaggin myth that started up from Flaylock users mixing damage mods. Not trying to come off as pretentious but I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to see this same question asked over and over and (somehow???) landing a blue-tag response every time.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1045	Posted - 2013.08.13 03:15:00 - [33] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3 All hit detection should be a bit better in 1.4 due to the fixes/improvements we've made. I am hoping the update we make in 1.5 will be more significant (since it's larger). We are planning to add the same aim assist system melee uses to the Nova Knives which should ensure more accurate strikes. Not sure when we're going to squeeze that in yet though.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2475	Posted - 2013.08.13 03:17:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3 All hit detection should be a bit better in 1.4 due to the fixes/improvements we've made. I am hoping the update we make in 1.5 will be more significant (since it's larger). We are planning to add the same aim assist system melee uses to the Nova Knives which should ensure more accurate strikes. Not sure when we're going to squeeze that in yet though. Any comment on this? http://blindmanmoon.blogspot.com/2013/07/coding-and-its-relation-to.html TL;DR - Resource costs are rounded off per module due to the fitting screen not having a decimal system, often times costing more PG/CPU than they should due to the rounding system.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1045	Posted - 2013.08.13 03:35:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3 All hit detection should be a bit better in 1.4 due to the fixes/improvements we've made. I am hoping the update we make in 1.5 will be more significant (since it's larger). We are planning to add the same aim assist system melee uses to the Nova Knives which should ensure more accurate strikes. Not sure when we're going to squeeze that in yet though. Any comment on this? http://blindmanmoon.blogspot.com/2013/07/coding-and-its-relation-to.html TL;DR - Resource costs are rounded off per module due to the fitting screen not having a decimal system, often times costing more PG/CPU than they should due to the rounding system. Not right now. One thing at a time :-)

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2479	Posted - 2013.08.13 04:20:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3 All hit detection should be a bit better in 1.4 due to the fixes/improvements we've made. I am hoping the update we make in 1.5 will be more significant (since it's larger). We are planning to add the same aim assist system melee uses to the Nova Knives which should ensure more accurate strikes. Not sure when we're going to squeeze that in yet though. Any comment on this? http://blindmanmoon.blogspot.com/2013/07/coding-and-its-relation-to.html TL;DR - Resource costs are rounded off per module due to the fitting screen not having a decimal system, often times costing more PG/CPU than they should due to the rounding system. Not right now. One thing at a time :-) 'ey, long as you recognize that there's something fishy going on - I'm good.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1045	Posted - 2013.08.13 06:04:00 - [37] - Quote just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2479	Posted - 2013.08.13 06:26:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1046	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:01:00 - [39] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please. Yeah, I've not been able to replicate it, I was doing essentially the same thing. My debug output is correct. I'll get QA to have a more extended look to see if they can replicate.

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1450	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:33:00 - [40] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Cosgar wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: wait... vehicles have weak spots????? Everything takes more damage from behind. except infantry.... Including infantry, I've checked the displayed efficiency ratings in match.

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1450	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:40:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Cross Atu wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross Ok dokey... In the case of a direct hit only direct damage is applied to the target. Splash is not applied to the target but will be applied to any others that happen to be in range. A headshot modifier would apply if the explosion hits your head. A series of checks are done to different body parts and splash is applied to the first one it hits (typically not the head). I would need to check on vehicles, I'm not sure how splash is applied to the regular body Vs weak spots. Thank you for the additional information and clarification. For the record/in case it's useful (or I've overlooked something in my testing) the vehicles take extra damage from OBs/PSs when backing up (as opposed to standing still or moving forward). This has been tested in match by dropping PSs on the same HAV at more than one time and watching the results. In multiple instances of this test HAVs which had survived a PS earlier, usually without even catching fire, would be destroyed before the end of the PS if they tried to "run" by backing up through the radius of the blast. Thanks again for the response o7 Cross
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1126	Posted - 2013.08.13 07:59:00 - [42] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please. on the first "direct hit" it appears the round hit behind your test subject. from side testing it appear AOE weapons don't hit other sockets other then foot and head but it'll always count the head being closer so the head shot cancels out the shield penalty for splash and direct shots that hit a socket point (even the head) are counted as none head shots. and you had an evil anti-test, i sorry about them, it happens. my side testing is on the plasma cannon btw and it does appear to do more splash then it should. but this was from in combat and not w/ a test subject. so didn't have time to fully compare the numbers. and if you could do the test with plasma cannon as it gets a bonus to shields rather then the MD which gets a penalty for more data.
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 210	Posted - 2013.08.13 12:09:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. You may have mentioned it but I didn't find the reference. Does splash damage ever fall off for any weapon or does it always clip at the splash radius? Are there any plans to have it taper off? There have been some comments to the effect that decreasing damage over distance would be a better way to do splash damage.
DJINN Jecture Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 49	Posted - 2013.08.13 16:07:00 - [44] - Quote Splash damage is spherical on the horizontal and vertical planes which the splash occurs on yet it does not produce a ball of explosion only a plate that folds along the surfaces affected like a "Looney Tunes" hole that can be dragged below someone for them to fall into. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFNx7YFwFfI
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1457	Posted - 2013.08.13 16:25:00 - [45] - Quote I'm also wondering how splash is applied past occlusion. If, for example, I am standing behind a stack of crates with my upper body exposed and a shell impacts the side of the crates opposite me what transpires with the AoE damage? Is there a "hole" cut from the sphere starting at the crates, or is only the portion of the sphere directly blocked by the crates effected thus allowing the AoE to 'splash' over the crates hitting my upper body? It would be useful to know how AoE interacts the occlusion from, cover, other Mercs (hostile or friendly), vehicles, installations, etc. knowing the context that is present on the in house testing rigs and is working as intended will aid in player based testing aimed at closing in on the source of these effects. Also, on a related question, is it an intended feature for damage mods to increase splash radius on weapons with AoE? Testing is still preliminary but an initial pass seems to indicate that damage mods currently have this effect. Cheers, Cross
reydient Rogue Spades EoN. 81	Posted - 2013.08.13 17:47:00 - [46] - Quote I have noticed that the radius on the Plasma Cannon - is not 3.5 m- it seems to be more of 1m. What I also noticed is that shooting at somebody while they are against a wall seems to result in no splash damage at all.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2497	Posted - 2013.08.13 18:54:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please. Yeah, I've not been able to replicate it, I was doing essentially the same thing. My debug output is correct. I'll get QA to have a more extended look to see if they can replicate. Possible that this is another case of "devs fixed it in our build but it hasn't been released yet because players are two months behind"?
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1622	Posted - 2013.08.13 19:28:00 - [48] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please. Interesting video. Something I'd like to point out after watching is is the range at which the splash starts to hit. The first hit, the 102 pts damage, is clearly just under 2m from the target's foot. I'm curious what MD you were using, and what skills you have in it. It seems to me that you should be doing damage sooner than that, but without knowing the details, it's hard to tell. The last miss seems to be just over 3m, so I'm thinking the splash area isn't as large as is stated on the stats.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 373	Posted - 2013.08.13 21:35:00 - [49] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO9t2fqgsGM&feature=youtu.be Watch the video please. Interesting video. Something I'd like to point out after watching is is the range at which the splash starts to hit. The first hit, the 102 pts damage, is clearly just under 2m from the target's foot. I'm curious what MD you were using, and what skills you have in it. It seems to me that you should be doing damage sooner than that, but without knowing the details, it's hard to tell. The last miss seems to be just over 3m, so I'm thinking the splash area isn't as large as is stated on the stats. Might there be a difference in ranges that results from the distance calculated not from center mass but from weapon tip? Probably making this more complex than it really is, but it strikes me that this could explain differences between what we "measure" using the ADS and the actual damage radius'. Food for thought anyways.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1063	Posted - 2013.08.14 06:02:00 - [50] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. You may have mentioned it but I didn't find the reference. Does splash damage ever fall off for any weapon or does it always clip at the splash radius? Are there any plans to have it taper off? There have been some comments to the effect that decreasing damage over distance would be a better way to do splash damage. Splash damage does have a fall off. I've asked our QA to look in to this and see if they can track down any problems.


Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 381	Posted - 2013.08.14 07:21:00 - [51] - Quote splash damage definitely taper off, because I've thrown Fluxes that didn't take out all shields
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 210	Posted - 2013.08.14 10:31:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. You may have mentioned it but I didn't find the reference. Does splash damage ever fall off for any weapon or does it always clip at the splash radius? Are there any plans to have it taper off? There have been some comments to the effect that decreasing damage over distance would be a better way to do splash damage. Splash damage does have a fall off. I've asked our QA to look in to this and see if they can track down any problems. FWIW I went back and checked the threads more thoroughly -- complaints of full damage at the edge of the splash radius came from folks talking about the mass driver and forge guns.
NoxMort3m D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 30	Posted - 2013.08.14 13:00:00 - [53] - Quote i wonder how many meters in game my character is tall, so i know how many body links are needed away from splash dmg in question
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1075	Posted - 2013.08.15 03:51:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: just did a quick test with the standard mass driver Vs a militia heavy. Splash seems to be working correctly. I got an exact -20% Vs shields. One thing that springs to mind is whether in any of your tests (particulalry with the forge) did you cross over from shields in to armour. In that case the damage gets split and the relevant modifiers applied to each chunk. That could give confusing results in a test. You may have mentioned it but I didn't find the reference. Does splash damage ever fall off for any weapon or does it always clip at the splash radius? Are there any plans to have it taper off? There have been some comments to the effect that decreasing damage over distance would be a better way to do splash damage. Splash damage does have a fall off. I've asked our QA to look in to this and see if they can track down any problems. There is splash fall off but it is extremely small and practically negligible.
JONAHBENHUR Trans Worlds Operations League of Infamy 24	Posted - 2013.08.21 18:01:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. if it is a sphere then how come people can jump out of the damage ?


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