DUST Search - Fix Splash Damage.

Cross Atu wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-)

On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'.

We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better.

The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away.

Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion.

Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing.

There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied.

If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply?

If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc.
More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well?

These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described.

Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread.

Cheers,
Cross

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 296	Posted - 2013.08.12 02:37:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not talking about making the radius smaller, or reducing the damage, I'm talking about making it spherical rather than the flat horizontal disc it is now. I think it's fairly important as it affects how people handle battlefield situations involving weapon AOE effects. I've actually had mercs evade my weapon/grenade damage just by jumping above the plane of effect. I've also experienced mercs taking me out with AOE damage at point blank range because they were standing on something knee high to me or jumping at the time of detonation so they don't damage/kill themselves. This is something that should have been taken care of a long time ago.
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 4	Posted - 2013.08.12 03:07:00 - [2] - Quote Super +1. Really this should be obvious. But then, CCP logic.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1575	Posted - 2013.08.12 03:11:00 - [3] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Super +1. Really this should be obvious. But then, CCP logic. CCP has claimed, on more than one occasion, that the blast damage is already spherical. Personally, I think their measurements are off - the 1 foot = 1 meter issue, but they claim this isn't the case too. I have seen people jump over splash damage, and I've seen other weird situations too, so I'd like CCP to take a fresh look at splash damage - because something is still wrong.
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 858	Posted - 2013.08.12 04:40:00 - [4] - Quote I think it is better now than it has been there is still the odd period of weirdness but the last fix had helped a little. For example pre-fix I tested shooting myself in the foot with an MD it hurt, I then tried standing on the top step of stairs and shooting my MD one step below and 9/10 nothing happened. Now it appears to be more like 1/10 so its getting there but its not quite perfect but the aiming and hit detection need work so it could be this instead and the splash might be perfect. All I know is with CCP we may never know the truth.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1030	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:07:00 - [5] - Quote We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere.

Buster Friently Rosen Association 1576	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:31:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Thanks
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1443	Posted - 2013.08.12 05:53:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Thank you for both the information and the further look into the matter. Armed with this new info I now need to pull together a testing protocol for how those pesky scouts (and some Cal suits) are capable of using AoE weapons against me at close range without taking visible health damage themselves (up to this point I was sure it was circle vs sphere related which anecdotally seemed to fit the facts) Again, thanks for the update Cross
Cryius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 18	Posted - 2013.08.12 06:01:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. can you fix the hit detection on the plasma cannon. the largest issue i seen is direct damage to the point it went right through dropsuits when neither the shooter or the target was moving.
The World isMine Defective by Design 15	Posted - 2013.08.12 06:39:00 - [9] - Quote I am a MD user and yes the AOE is not spherical. it seems to have a plane and i can mostly dodge not dying by jumping just before i launch shells at my feet. also Flux grenades don't seem to work well. CCP should take notes from other games on mechanics and how people should be shot. Grenades in this game never seem to act right. The recoil animation feels more like a third person shooter instead of a FPS. the gun should have a kick and dispersion not just a dispersion. GO LOOK AT BF3. You will see what im talking about.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1032	Posted - 2013.08.12 09:56:00 - [10] - Quote Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion.


Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 325	Posted - 2013.08.12 10:13:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Hope.
steadyhand amarr Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 1061	Posted - 2013.08.12 10:49:00 - [12] - Quote I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 266	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:12:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We are going to be taking a look at splash damage to see if there is anything fishy going on with it. However I can confirm it is a sphere. Here comes the nerf bat. At least I started using the nova knife until that gets nerfed as well.
FLAYLOCK Steve Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 266	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:18:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. I suicide with the mass driver a lot. people just get mad because they want to charge you. All im asking is keep game play tactics in mind before you start swinging the nerf bat.....
G Torq ALTA B2O 196	Posted - 2013.08.12 11:26:00 - [15] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for This has, literally, been said about EVERY release/build since december (possibly before that). Evidently, every release/build from CCP has been excellent so far, since the game is still being played and discussed, and thus we have every reason to expect that 1.4 and later will also be excellent!
Arc-08 Horizons' Edge Orion Empire 34	Posted - 2013.08.12 12:13:00 - [16] - Quote G Torq wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I hope so too cuz if 1.4 is fail then dust is done for This has, literally, been said about EVERY release/build since december (possibly before that). Evidently, every release/build from CCP has been excellent so far, since the game is still being played and discussed, and thus we have every reason to expect that 1.4 and later will also be excellent! i wouldn't say excelent, but CCP has still done an amazing job with their updates, one update has never made me (upset angry or want to quit the game) of course each update has it's bug's and things it needs to have fixed, but i have been consistently satisfied with each of their updates. not that everything they do is all dandy and good XD but you get the point
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 180	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote I get hit by my own splash when I jump. It gives me a better angle to hit you when I jump(also a bit of evasion) which is why I do it.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1446	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:54:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 20	Posted - 2013.08.12 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. When are we actually going to get details about what is in the 1.4 release I have heard nothing about it, not even vague outlines except what I hear from devs giving very brief blurbs about it in the forum like you just did. Also for explosion damage, I have seen players hiding behind slanted walks/ramps, where I could obviously see them, my gernade landed right next to them on the ramp, they were to the side of it, I can visibly see them and the explosion should have hit them, being it is a 6.6m explosion they were not damaged at all from this, the rough distance the gernade landed and exploded was 2-3 m and they were clearly visible. Also, you are referencing 1.5 now, any notes or hints what is going to be in there as a list of topics, just a list of topics for the 1.4 would be great also, even if no real details are provided as long as an approx date for when we will get the details is included or least suggested.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1585	Posted - 2013.08.12 16:15:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. I've seen you guys mention the FOV making distances look short before, but this doesn't affect people jumping over explosions. Seriously, any MD explosion should apply damage to a distance, at minimum, to the height of a dropsuit. This is what I wonder about.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2462	Posted - 2013.08.12 17:06:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Or it could be that my post was entirely neglected a look-over and the splash radius for the user is different than for the target you're firing at.... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99917 All you guys have to do is -read-, it's not going to kill anyone. Sorry for sounding frustrated but I can't fathom why this would be considered a "hit detection/lag compensation" issue when the code is different for target/user...
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 301	Posted - 2013.08.13 00:08:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Thanks for the reply, but it's still a bit frustrating when I'm two step outside melee range with a MD user and he still takes me down, while bunny hopping, without seeming to damage/kill himself too.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1044	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:25:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Or it could be that my post was entirely neglected a look-over and the splash radius for the user is different than for the target you're firing at.... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99917 All you guys have to do is -read-, it's not going to kill anyone. Sorry for sounding frustrated but I can't fathom why this would be considered a "hit detection/lag compensation" issue when the code is different for target/user... It wasn't neglected, it's actually open on my screen atm and is one of the reasons why we're looking in to splash again. It's just tough to comment on every single post you read and I wont have much to say until we've had a chance to poke around and see what's up :-)

SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 185	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:32:00 - [24] - Quote If you commented on every post that Aeon Amadi wrote, you would have no time to code stuff :)
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1599	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:39:00 - [25] - Quote Maybe distance, as in splash radius, is being measured from impact point to the center point of a target player rather than the closest extremity point? This would explain a lot of what I see regarding splash oddities.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1044	Posted - 2013.08.13 01:53:00 - [26] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Trust me, it is spherical. I can see the sphere on my screen right now :-) On my local server it is literally impossible to drop shells at my feet and not take damage whilst jumping. There is a good chance the issues you are seeing are related to latency so the sphere (or the character) on the client and the server are not in exactly the same place. This would explain why it sometimes feels 'off'. We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. The other thing to consider is that in first person distances can seem a lot closer than they actually are. So you think it went off very close to you but it was actually a fair bit further away. Lastly, the guns do have both kick and dispersion. Latency would explain a lot, including the current inability to pin this down with my own testing. There was an additional aspect raised which I'd love to get your feedback on. That being how the damage is applied. If someone scores a direct hit with a weapon that has both direct and AoE damage do both values apply? If the sphere covers the head of the target do head shot efficiency modifiers apply, with the same question for splash being done to the back arc. More specifically it is verifiable in game that splash damage does get the bonus to efficiency when applied to the "sweet spot" areas, at least against vehicles (Infantry is harder to test this on due to relative HP constraints). So having established that this is currently happening in game is this working as intended and does it apply to infantry as well? These aspects, combined with latency, could be causing the issues seen with some of the AoE weaponry such as the MD and FG, while also explaining why users of them aren't generally seeing the extra performance which is frequently described. Any information/clarification you could provide here would be greatly appreciated, and thank you once again for your continued participation in this thread. Cheers, Cross Ok dokey... In the case of a direct hit only direct damage is applied to the target. Splash is not applied to the target but will be applied to any others that happen to be in range. A headshot modifier would apply if the explosion hits your head. A series of checks are done to different body parts and splash is applied to the first one it hits (typically not the head). I would need to check on vehicles, I'm not sure how splash is applied to the regular body Vs weak spots.

Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F 1350	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:00:00 - [27] - Quote wait... vehicles have weak spots?????
Cosgar ParagonX 4141	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:19:00 - [28] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: wait... vehicles have weak spots????? Everything takes more damage from behind.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 497	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:27:00 - [29] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: wait... vehicles have weak spots????? Everything takes more damage from behind. except infantry....
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 77	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:32:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: We've made further improvements to hit detection/lag compensation in the 1.4 release and will continue to do more in 1.5 so we should see things getting better. Can you confirm that nova knife hit detection is fixed? :3



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