We're also adjusting the War Point total you need to accumulate in order to graduate from the Academy, down to 400 War Points. This didn't seem like a very large number to most of us here, but our metrics suggest the median new player is scoring about 100 WP per battle, so this has them graduating from the Academy after probably 3-5 battles (with better players graduating sooner and less able ones staying longer, of course). Once graduated, players are free to join any of the normal game modes.

CCP just keeps making the wrong decisions on developing Dust 514.

Just scratch the entire game and rebuild it ffs... it is going to die anyway on December/January!

Why do adult like to pick on children alot

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

This a joke? So CCP estimates people will quit less when they go 0/15 like 3 people do every game? Also - you're now letting in even bigger scrubs into our games - so you're hurting vets enjoyment too.

Just - wow.

Should there be a PC Battle Academy as well?

I am not the one with the numbers so I don't know what exactly CCP is doing but leaving it as was not working from the looks of it. BA shouldn't be causing people to leave verses the days before we had it, most unfortunately none of those people who have left are here to talk. They quit after all.

I do remember extensive dev blogs from other studios over the subject of the first 2-5 minutes, hell Extra Credits did a peice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFU4tjMndi4 and there are plenty of development studios that know about this and try to make the first 5 minutes epic, though the worst MMOs on market make the mistake that the first 5 minutes where more epic than the entire rest of the game combined.

I also remember when Battle Academy first game out there was a crap ton of complaints of not was it only TOO long but when people got out of it the illusion shattered of how the rest of the game is. I also shortly remembered a bunch of braggers posting on how they were purposely rolling alts to pwn noobs. To which 400 wps would see them out of the BA in one match.

As another poster stated what difference is 50k sp going to make? Let alone the wall slam that happens regardless as soon as they leave? This wall slam is only experienced one time more by most regular players when they first go into PC matches. Should there be a PC Battle Academy as well?

Why do adult like to pick on children alot

Either way. Current NPE is not cutting it. There needs to be entirely new things installed completely as an entirely new feature not resorting to using Server Magic to set up these matches.

In other respect let's do take my Removal of the Battle Academy suggestion seriously.

and replace it with a training room tutorial (in which this room becomes accessible for the future for trying things out) and put in then put in the true skill based matchmaking where new players are pitted against like players and those who excel in skills will be accelerated out of it into ever more increasing challenges provided by other players.

Would that be more effective?

Either way. Current NPE is not cutting it.

Maybe. The problem you'd encounter with that is at the upper end, it'd just be never-ending PC battles, but without the pay-out. (And that would effectively kill off a portion of your advanced player-base, since not all of us want to go broke, ISK or AUR-wise, playing this game.) Why not just go with the earlier suggestion of having battles with standard or militia gear? Vets are already creating alts for Academy just to make money. Oh wait, this would mess with CCP's AUR scheme. My bad.

Removing Academy is not going to prevent people from leaving, It will accelerate it. I've been trying to get a friend into the game for several months. He's been getting on lately. On his own in Academy, he goes even. He was surprised by it. He goes into a game with me, and goes 0/something. And this is a guy with good gun game in other FPS games. The absolute frustration of being murdered by high level users is killing off any new players. And the thing is, they know why they're being killed, and it's not always because their skills are terrible.

Essentially, you have a fairness issue. And rather than create a mode that can at least give an illusion of fairness (and one that would mess with the AUR selling), you remove what little 'fairness' existed at all. Give us PvE at least. >_O

I guarantee you the old NPE was at least better than 400 point Domination. The fact that anyone actually thought this might be an improvement enough to actually implement the change is beyond me.

To make them htfu, get good, and teach them to adapt or else...

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Unable to understand simple things or take legitimate advice from others, CCP just keeps making the wrong decisions on developing Dust 514. Some may find this familiar:



This right here, is by far the most extraordinary thing CCP has done and it's proof that they don't know how properly make a FPS for the PS3 crowd. With 1 year in Beta and several months passed after release, I expect to see similar actions to be taken in the near future if CCP doesn't improve.




P.S. Don't expect CCP to admit their failures and do something about it.

Where are those Drones CCP?

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Why do adult like to pick on children alot

The same place they put procedurally generated persistent planets:

Back in the bowl.

Procedurally generated persistent planets have been thrown on the floor due to various limitations. If they ever decide to do this again they will have to start on it from scrap.

Because we secretly hate them......

Apparently killing 8 newberries in starter fits qualifies you for joining all the proto users. I really do like CCP and want to support them, but sure enough they always seem to do something that makes no sense. Even if you absolutely suck, you can get 400 points on accident after a day or two of playing, and that's if you are really really bad.

[quote=SoTah Pawp][quote=Iron Wolf Saber]. Should there be a PC Battle Academy as well?

This a joke? So CCP estimates people will quit less when they go 0/15 like 3 people do every game? Also - you're now letting in even bigger scrubs into our games - so you're hurting vets enjoyment too.

Just - wow.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Getting rid of the SP cap and leaving the 2x SP for WP generation in place for the foreseeable future would be a start.

I'm at nearly 20 million SP.

If I get 10 million more SP in the next few months it won't make me much better at all in regards to what I can bring to the fight one
clone at a time.



A person with 2 million SP adding 10 million SP over the next few months is exponentially better.



I've had some people counter that, but I've never been impressed with any reasoning against it.

It's funny how they say the "average" player earns 100 WP in a match.

Maybe if they stopped counting AFK players they might get a better metric.

400 points....in Domination....the worst mode for a new player not in a squad to get used to....

I just...I can't even....my head.....it hurts....

and yet the afk'ers would have us believe that their afking is boosting numbers for the betterment of the game ^_^

Getting rid of the SP cap will only serve to hurt the game.

Less sales for CCP

Impossible for people who can't play 24/7 to be even remotely relevant

Drastically reduces the life of the game

Creates an insurmountable gap even worse than what we have now in terms of SP

Basically the only thing removing the SP cap would do is sate the ego's of a few, while basically ruining the rest of the game and removing any need to make purchases in this free to play game, thusly killing it outright.

In this thread, the community expresses discontent with a change while the representative of the community claims we just don't understand.

Apparently killing 8 newberries in starter fits qualifies you for joining all the proto users. I really do like CCP and want to support them, but sure enough they always seem to do something that makes no sense. Even if you absolutely suck, you can get 400 points on accident after a day or two of playing, and that's if you are really really bad.

IWS isnt a representattive of the community why would anyone ever think that

Getting rid of the SP cap will only serve to hurt the game.

Less sales for CCP

Impossible for people who can't play 24/7 to be even remotely relevant

Drastically reduces the life of the game

Creates an insurmountable gap even worse than what we have now in terms of SP

Basically the only thing removing the SP cap would do is sate the ego's of a few, while basically ruining the rest of the game and removing any need to make purchases in this free to play game, thusly killing it outright.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Unable to understand simple things or take legitimate advice from others, CCP just keeps making the wrong decisions on developing Dust 514. Some may find this familiar:



This right here, is by far the most extraordinary thing CCP has done and it's proof that they don't know how properly make a FPS for the PS3 crowd. With 1 year in Beta and several months passed after release, I expect to see similar actions to be taken in the near future if CCP doesn't improve.




P.S. Don't expect CCP to admit their failures and do something about it.

CCP has just proven to be This type of Administrator when it comes to the academy

No they don't, they make the most profitable decisions, they're a company you american idiot.

Die, not nessecarily but it will be 1-2k peak but it wwill slow down then the game can start to heal

WE SAID INCREASE THE SP!!!! please complain CCP miight fix the issue.

How long have you been playing online games? I'm not calling you stupid or anything but I have played them since the mid 90's and I can promise you one thing: when a game dies it doesn't come back to life. It only dies more, and if it does get any new players it isnt enough to make a noticeable difference.

CCP has made too many mistakes for Dust to "thrive". The most they can hope for is that Dust "survives", and given the competition it will be facing soon, it won't. In 1 years time you will not find anyone that actively plays this game unless you come to this forum specifically.

Meh, I'd point at EVE to counter your point but I think that Dust might get repackaged and renamed before it's put on PS4 (If CCP wants people to buy it.)

That median of 100wp doesn't seem right IMO...

I made a new character to try this out and I got 450wp in my first game. This is taking into account the fact that this was with the 8v8 setting.

So I can only assume in the larger battles people will get way more than 400 WP. Its not like I got a really high score because ive played dust a while. Other noobs were getting 300-600wp a game in the 8v8 setting.

CCP what made you decide to do this? Really lol?

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

I dunno how does !@#holes who constantly roll alts to pwn noobs in BA justified either? The current system testing means they're out of the BA in one fight most of the time. Making BA much longer helps these jerks much more than the rookies. There is a theory in Eve and its going to hold true here, anything designed to purposely help new or smaller groups of players is going to ultimately massively benefit the veteran and larger groups of players more so.

Between the two empty character slots and how long it took a good player to burn though the 20k wp with the 10 hour cool down you can do this near endlessly.

Currently there are three things players use to progress:
Actual Skill
Skill Level
Gear

BA barely provides enough training in Gear, or Skill Levels and in my honest opinion NEVER should be used as such. We can do this by well eliminating the use of Basic, Advanced, Prototype gear in BA. This will make the noob gankers less effective as well since they don't have access to the ability to widen the gap massively between themselves and new players, and lets face it, there is nearly absolutely to hand hold a player into increasing actual skill without pitting them against better players. The tutorials can only arm that player with the knowledge they need to improve but the player will have to do the improving himself in the wild, this is not something you can gain entirely by sitting at a desk writing about it.

BA should be used ultimately as an evaluation period for placement inside the matchmaking system Similar to the 5 placement fights Star Craft II uses. It shouldn't be used as a means of teaching players basics of the game, it should be a place of applying what they have been taught so far for the first time.

We need better NPE overall and something before the Academy, and a means of flagging an entire account of doing the BA before and skipping over it entirely so they would have to make new PSN alts to troll players at least.

As for the experiment and the sorts CCP needs to verify their theories, yes its bad to do this but then again the first BA was also an experiment and was supposed to be temporary. As for what next week's experiment is I don't know but this is all stuff to that can get done while waiting for the new stuff to make it in planned patch soon.

And here we go with the braindead i dont think before i respond response.

Less sales is utter BS, PS2 sells plenty of xp boosters despite having no cap because people still pay money if reasonably priced to accelerate the curve. CCP would simply need to adjust the pricing. Moreover that forces CCP to actually look at better ways to make money rather than being perpetually lazy about everything.

Um playing 24/7 and the insurmountable gap lines both assume that SP is linear and that every added SP makes you more powerful then the prior amount of SP. The fact is the growth curve reaches a limit at which point increased gains are met with diminished gains in power since there is an actual cap to Power (LEVEL 5).

Dramatically reduces life? As opposed to now? Get real here it takes over 250M SP to cap the ENTIRE skill tree and it isnt even complete. It also implicates that the only thing worth doing in this game is gaining SP, which is a sad statement of the reality of this game but again CCP's fault that they havent created content worth playing over acquiring SP and even when that content exists players are still going to want to be able to grind enough SP to be at an equal or comparably equal power level as vets during instances of PVP.

Removing the Cap wont save the game but it will do far more to benefit this game. The fact that CCP has to create a artificial restraint on players in order to make money says everything about the quality and longevity of this game, in which case CCP has a far bigger issue then what removing the cap will do.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Unable to understand simple things or take legitimate advice from others, CCP just keeps making the wrong decisions on developing Dust 514. Some may find this familiar:



This right here, is by far the most extraordinary thing CCP has done and it's proof that they don't know how properly make a FPS for the PS3 crowd. With 1 year in Beta and several months passed after release, I expect to see similar actions to be taken in the near future if CCP doesn't improve.




P.S. Don't expect CCP to admit their failures and do something about it.

Duh you made that. You've played before so you went on a slaughtering spree on some noobs who don't know how to play it yet as you do.

Really, what is the point you're making? Think before you post

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

From 20k to 400 War Points. That is a pretty big pendulum swing IMO.

The could have just dropped it down to 10k and reevaluated from there. Massive change is never the answer when you are trying to "fine-tune" something. And something tells me the massive exodus of new players probably had little to do with how much time they spent in Academy. Especially when you could still be invited to standard matches via friends who graduated already.

Some wacky theories here.

Thing is the 'wall slam' experienced at 20k is exactly the same wall 'slam experienced' at amount of wall slam at 400 WP or (or 0 WP) even 10 million SP going into PC the first time.

Hardly. There's a huge difference in being released for pub stomping after 1-2 matches or 50 matches. Sure you won't have much SP either way, but with 20k WP as the limit you would have a lot of battle experience before being released.

You can also be fairly competitive in PC with 10 million SP. I "only" have 14 million and I can be pretty competitive in PC. Do you even know anything about PC anyway?

So how was reducing the WP an improvement then? Oh yea, CCP is "experimenting".

If they would do less experimenting and actually listen to our feedback then they would know that reducing the WP was not the way to go.

I only know by proxy I don't ringer into those fights because they're at odd times I am unable to use the PS3 mostly. Few folks who I have talked with going into PC for the first time said its a world's difference in facing a coherent team.

Lol I cant tell you how tired I am of having to address this point. What you said is like saying "America beat Japan pretty devastatingly so they'll have no problem with the middle east".

Eve is pretty much the only space ship mmo you can go to - they completely dominate that market. If you hate EVE but love spaceship mmo's, you really don't have many options. On top of having that market cornered, who even tries to compete with them? It is also on PC and PC players have much, MUCH more patience than console players.

Dust is an FPS - one of many, many FPS's. If you don't like it, just wait a week for the next FPS to be released. Dust has nothing BUT competition. Its on a console - console players do not have anywhere near the amount of patience pc players do.

Ccp can't do what it did with EVE and expect Dust to succeed. Flipping a coin with the same hand will not always make it land on heads - especially when you are in a storm.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

Well what are you suggestions and since you're so smart care to guess the numbers of people who graduated (earned enough war points to leave) the first iteration of the Battle Academy?

Well what are you suggestions and since you're so smart care to guess the numbers of people who graduated (earned enough war points to leave) the first iteration of the Battle Academy?

IWS isnt a representattive of the community why would anyone ever think that, he's always been a CCP apoligist and mouthpiece.

Ahh, that makes things a little clearer, thanks.

So I'm guessing the main problem was that the majority of genuinely new players (I'm assuming CCP can distinguish between new alts and new accounts in BA) were getting bored of BA and quitting before they got to 10K WP, and therefore not experiencing the full game.

A secondary problem is the "wall-slam" when moving from BA to general matches.

CCP decided there is no easy fix to the wall-slam, but they can easily fix the "quitting before experiencing the full game" problem by dropping the limit to 400WP.

I'm further assuming CCP are hoping that the new matchmaking system they are working on will solve the wall-slam.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.

This man deserves a plate of internet cookies. He is able to step back and not think like a player.

10k new players a day and player base is shrinking...

UPDATE 15-08-13: At downtime today we'll be increasing the Academy WP cap from 400 to 1500, to see what impact this has on our metrics.

Characters who log in after downtime and have scored between 400 and 1500 War Points in their career to date will find themselves back in the Academy, which they'll leave (again!) when they accumulate 1500 total lifetime WP.

We could delete battle academy and go back to the days of not having it :P

Either way the original 20k was apparently too much as well having new unique players quitting during that period.