DUST Search - Nerf damage mods (read why before you flame).

Cross Atu wrote:

Nerf damage mods (read why before you flame).

When discussing infantry tank (not HAV) balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot.
When talking about role balance and definition between Medium Frames the subject of damage mods comes up a lot.
When discussing comparative weapon balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot.

Damage mods are widely viewed as one of the most, perhaps the most, useful/valuable module type in the game. So lets nerf them, wait, wait, donGÇÖt flame me just yet.

HereGÇÖs why:
Armor is weaker than shields right now, but it is frequently pointed out that if they were equal Armor would become superior due to the free high slots for damage mods.
Logi need high eHP to do real support work but it has been vigorously pointed out that Logi with high eHP + stacked damage mods can be GÇÿbetter slayersGÇÖ than the Assault suits, thus diminishing the role of that frame.

There are other aspects but rather than elaborating further let me address the obvious question
GÇ£How does nerfing a mod for everyone improve balance for anyone, that just keeps things the same doesnGÇÖt it?GÇ¥
Well, not quite, hereGÇÖs what I propose.

Nerf damage mods, and give Assault suits some role buff to enhance the effectiveness of damage mods fit to their suit (so they still have the same ballpark of performance from them as now), give armor much better eHP mostly via buffer (but also the other things discussed here) and let things develop.

Net effect on roles
QCQ Scouts generally do not need damage mods to get 1-2 hit kills.

Snipers would have a choice

Scouts for stealth and speed
Heavies for HP
Assaults for high Alpha damage
Logi for supplies

So snipers will be fine.

AV would have also have a choice

Scouts for stealth and speed
Heavies for HP and use of the Forge Gun
Assaults for high Alpha damage with Swarms/Plasma
Logi for supplies

Net AV balance remains approximately the same, now with greater role specialization/reason to use different frames based on play style.

Assaults get a buff to their role as skirmishers/hit and run gankers. They'll be great slayers but won't be able to "stand in the fight" much. (This will also give Assaults some reason to seriously consider armor tanking despite the possible speed implications)

Logi are able to build up meaningful eHP totals but even with stacked damage mods won't reach the dps output of a similarly built Assault suit.

Heavy will lose a little bit of dps (but Heavies can't stack damage mods the way Med Frames can anyway so this will impact them less) and will get a meaningful boost to their overall eHP. They'll still be deadly in their optimal ranges and won't be as vulnerable to sudden death via one nade toss or a 'falank-n'gank' (unless it's an assault flanker).

0.02 ISK
Cross

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Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1399	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:41:00 - [1] - Quote Nerf damage mods (read why before you flame). When discussing infantry tank (not HAV) balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When talking about role balance and definition between Medium Frames the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When discussing comparative weapon balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. Damage mods are widely viewed as one of the most, perhaps the most, useful/valuable module type in the game. So lets nerf them, wait, wait, donGÇÖt flame me just yet. HereGÇÖs why: Armor is weaker than shields right now, but it is frequently pointed out that if they were equal Armor would become superior due to the free high slots for damage mods. Logi need high eHP to do real support work but it has been vigorously pointed out that Logi with high eHP + stacked damage mods can be GÇÿbetter slayersGÇÖ than the Assault suits, thus diminishing the role of that frame. There are other aspects but rather than elaborating further let me address the obvious question GÇ£How does nerfing a mod for everyone improve balance for anyone, that just keeps things the same doesnGÇÖt it?GÇ¥ Well, not quite, hereGÇÖs what I propose. Nerf damage mods, and give Assault suits some role buff to enhance the effectiveness of damage mods fit to their suit (so they still have the same ballpark of performance from them as now), give armor much better eHP mostly via buffer (but also the other things discussed here) and let things develop. Net effect on roles QCQ Scouts generally do not need damage mods to get 1-2 hit kills. Snipers would have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP Assaults for high Alpha damage Logi for supplies So snipers will be fine. Snipers would have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP and use of the Forge Gun Assaults for high Alpha damage with Swarms/Plasma Logi for supplies Net AV balance remains approximately the same, now with greater role specialization/reason to use different frames based on play style. Assaults get a buff to their role as skirmishers/hit and run gankers. They'll be great slayers but won't be able to "stand in the fight" much. (This will also give Assaults some reason to seriously consider armor tanking despite the possible speed implications) Logi are able to build up meaningful eHP totals but even with stacked damage mods won't reach the dps output of a similarly built Assault suit. Heavy will lose a little bit of dps (but Heavies can't stack damage mods the way Med Frames can anyway so this will impact them less) and will get a meaningful boost to their overall eHP. They'll still be deadly in their optimal ranges and won't be as vulnerable to sudden death via one nade toss or a 'falank-n'gank' (unless it's an assault flanker). 0.02 ISK Cross
RKKR The Southern Legion 292	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:46:00 - [2] - Quote Screw forgegun sniping If armor will become equal to shields, wouldn't we be able to fit armor-modules in high slots too? But interessting concept...
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1401	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:50:00 - [3] - Quote RKKR wrote: Screw forgegun sniping If armor will become equal to shields, wouldn't we be able to fit armor-modules in high slots too? But interessting concept... Well "equal" in this case is meant as "of equal value" not "of identical function" so armor wouldn't have identical stats or slot requirements to shields it would just become of equal value, a change which will benefit all players because anyone can (choose to) hybrid tank. So with the armor balanced to shields and the damage mod nerf (+damage mod skill buff for Assaults) the net results are as described above creating more specialization value/role definition without forcing players into anything. Thanks for the reply. Cheers, Cross
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1463	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:53:00 - [4] - Quote It seems to me, that if youGÇÖre running any sort of front line combat type of fit (non sniper in other words) and you're using damage mods that you're doing it wrong. The only time damage mods are better than shields is if you're using a heavy. Someone tell me why I'm wrong. I'd like to know.
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 223	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:55:00 - [5] - Quote This seems to reduce damage output for non-damage roles... I like it actually. On the down side, players that snipe with scout suites would be kinda pi***d as sniping is a bit UP unless you are using a charged sniper. Overall I give it a +1 `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .
RKKR The Southern Legion 292	Posted - 2013.08.05 16:58:00 - [6] - Quote Mmmh I guess it comes down to how armortanking would be balanced as armor-modules take up place for other modules that could be used in the low slots too,... But well I don't won't to turn this in a armor VS shield argument...let's see what other people think.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1401	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:03:00 - [7] - Quote RKKR wrote: Mmmh I guess it comes down to how armortanking would be balanced as armor-modules take up place for other modules that could be used in the low slots too,... But well I don't won't to turn this in a armor VS shield argument...let's see what other people think. You are indeed correct (and thanks for keeping this thread on topic ) that armor/shield balance aspect is key so I've provided a link in the OP to a threadnought which delves into that very question, it's important for people to be informed. Thank you again for the thoughtful response. Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1401	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:15:00 - [8] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: It seems to me, that if youGÇÖre running any sort of front line combat type of fit (non sniper in other words) and you're using damage mods that you're doing it wrong. The only time damage mods are better than shields is if you're using a heavy. Someone tell me why I'm wrong. I'd like to know. I'm a support logi so I don't run damage mods on most of my fits, except proto MD fits which are used for entrenchment or overwatch. What I mean is that I think there are other players who can answer this better than I can because for my role on the field more HP is usually of greater value than more DMG. However from talking to many other mercs over the last few builds here's what I've gathered. (Hopefully someone more versed in this will correct me if I get any aspects wrong). Damage mods can carry a high value for a mid range, or mid to long range, weapon such as the AR or Scram. These weapons are often in use outside of their optimal range due to the pace/context of the battle. At that range they are losing potential dps and running damage mods counters that loss, sometimes adding a net gain as well. Further with the engagement range extended in such a manner other weapons are less dangerous to the user, providing a sort of "dps + range" tank. CQC and low-mid range weapons aren't effective at mid-long range engagements and avoidance of explosive damage via cover and dodging becomes more viable. So in a sense this increases the eHP of those damage mod users even thought it decreases their raw HP. Combine the above with focus fire from a squad mate or two and you can very effectively lock down many areas of the maps we have. For use of damage mods outside the context described above we can consider overwatch fits like my MD. Or sidearm fits, usually with a sidearm (SMG notwithstanding) if you miss you're in a bad situation. Getting as close to a 1, or at most 3, hit kill with your sidearm is frequently vital to winning that fight. As such use of damage mods becomes important, as usually the sidearm fits focus more on speed than raw HP so they're fragile if hit, meaning they need to hit fast and hard or they're likely in trouble. In short, snipers aside, damage mods are great for skirmish slaying and area denial work. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1401	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:17:00 - [9] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: This seems to reduce damage output for non-damage roles... I like it actually. On the down side, players that snipe with scout suites would be kinda pi***d as sniping is a bit UP unless you are using a charged sniper. Overall I give it a +1 `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST . Thanks I'm glad it makes sense. Oh and you're right I think there are some snipers in my corp/alliance which may hang me up by my toes for suggesting this ~Cross
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 224	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:21:00 - [10] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Thanks I'm glad it makes sense. Oh and you're right I think there are some snipers in my corp/alliance which may hang me up by my toes for suggesting this ~Cross Well if snipers had a slight base damage increase and a moderate head shot increase then this wouldn't be an issue. Some snipers asked for all headshots = death. But that's just overdoing it. Either way, your idea would kinda help scouts by increasing there chance of survival vs other suits which they gonna need after 1.4. Thnx for posting your thoughts. `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .

Vin Mora Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 88	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:35:00 - [11] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Nerf damage mods (read why before you flame). When discussing infantry tank (not HAV) balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When talking about role balance and definition between Medium Frames the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When discussing comparative weapon balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. Damage mods are widely viewed as one of the most, perhaps the most, useful/valuable module type in the game. So lets nerf them, wait, wait, donGÇÖt flame me just yet. HereGÇÖs why: Armor is weaker than shields right now, but it is frequently pointed out that if they were equal Armor would become superior due to the free high slots for damage mods. Logi need high eHP to do real support work but it has been vigorously pointed out that Logi with high eHP + stacked damage mods can be GÇÿbetter slayersGÇÖ than the Assault suits, thus diminishing the role of that frame. There are other aspects but rather than elaborating further let me address the obvious question GÇ£How does nerfing a mod for everyone improve balance for anyone, that just keeps things the same doesnGÇÖt it?GÇ¥ Well, not quite, hereGÇÖs what I propose. Nerf damage mods, and give Assault suits some role buff to enhance the effectiveness of damage mods fit to their suit (so they still have the same ballpark of performance from them as now), give armor much better eHP mostly via buffer (but also the other things discussed here) and let things develop. Net effect on roles QCQ Scouts generally do not need damage mods to get 1-2 hit kills. Snipers would have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP Assaults for high Alpha damage Logi for supplies So snipers will be fine. Snipers would have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP and use of the Forge Gun Assaults for high Alpha damage with Swarms/Plasma Logi for supplies Net AV balance remains approximately the same, now with greater role specialization/reason to use different frames based on play style. Assaults get a buff to their role as skirmishers/hit and run gankers. They'll be great slayers but won't be able to "stand in the fight" much. (This will also give Assaults some reason to seriously consider armor tanking despite the possible speed implications) Logi are able to build up meaningful eHP totals but even with stacked damage mods won't reach the dps output of a similarly built Assault suit. Heavy will lose a little bit of dps (but Heavies can't stack damage mods the way Med Frames can anyway so this will impact them less) and will get a meaningful boost to their overall eHP. They'll still be deadly in their optimal ranges and won't be as vulnerable to sudden death via one nade toss or a 'falank-n'gank' (unless it's an assault flanker). 0.02 ISK Cross I agree with this, balance can never achieved if the results are taint by players adding extra damage to a weapon.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 652	Posted - 2013.08.05 17:53:00 - [12] - Quote People already complain about assaults enough. The heavies will scream themselves skinny.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1406	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:14:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: People already complain about assaults enough. The heavies will scream themselves skinny. Would you mind explaining in balance terms, rather than public opinion terms, what your objections to this proposal are?
KingBabar Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback 1012	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:17:00 - [14] - Quote No
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 958	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:20:00 - [15] - Quote I don't get your two 'snipers have a choice sections' Also, I think my suggestion is elegant and appropriate: What you want is something viable for logibros to favor their armor resiliance, but doesn't make them better slayers necessarily. Therefore: Ancillary Armor Booster - - highslot module (has to sacrifice slots for damage mods) - Multiplies the effect of armor repair rate by 25% to 45% per module (basically like a regulator) So trading 2 highslots could effectively free up a lowslot for either a utility module or more eHP. The trade-off for resiliance would make the most sense for logibros who need it as they are scrambling around the front lines and who are already getting a good starting base armor repair rate. Armor slayers who would want to be doing high alpha damage (amarr scrambler/laser users) wouldn't want to sacrifice the damage mods for regen. Their damage is based on alpha strikes anyway, so they need to get in and out. This means HP resiliance isn't as important as buffer. My fundamental disagreement with you Cross is it seems like you want both armor and shield to be equal at close range. I think this would throw off balance on a number of levels. See my new Wu Xing post. Armor suits (high armor slot layout) should have the option of using their lowslots of eHP or speed/stealth and highslots for damage. So they get to pick 2 of those options. Armor slot logi's get a third option to use their slots for added fitting ability. Shield suits have the option of turning their abundant high slots into a either regen, buffer, or damage fit and basically can pick 2 of those. They also have the option of choosing a glass cannon fit using the limited lows for fitting.
Ichiro Jin-Mei Universal Rogue Traders 0	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:24:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: People already complain about assaults enough. The heavies will scream themselves skinny. lol, scream themselves skinny
DeadlyAztec11 Max-Pain-inc Dark Taboo 1790	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:25:00 - [17] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: It seems to me, that if youGÇÖre running any sort of front line combat type of fit (non sniper in other words) and you're using damage mods that you're doing it wrong. The only time damage mods are better than shields is if you're using a heavy. Someone tell me why I'm wrong. I'd like to know. They are very essential to run on a Assault/Logi if you are trying to guest the most bang out of a swarm launcher. So you are wrong.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 65	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:34:00 - [18] - Quote New slots for damage mods. Keep CPU/PG values the same for all suits. If you run damage mods then they will just go into this new slot and nothing will be changed. Logistics class doesn't have these slots.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 937	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:35:00 - [19] - Quote I think we should give all weapons a slight damage buff, give all assault suits a buff to their light weapon damage, remove damage mods and add the weapon customization system. The way fitting works even with slightly nerfed damage mods a logistics suits with high amount of high slots could possibly end up as a better slayer than a Assault suit with a low amount of high slots, for example a Caldari logistics vs a Gallente Assault or a Amarr assault. Without damage mods the only way to actually increase the damage of your weapon is by sacrificing another part of your weapon via the weapon customization system, which I recall that a DEV said a very long time ago that it is already made they just don't know how to implement it.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1409	Posted - 2013.08.05 18:39:00 - [20] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't get your two 'snipers have a choice sections' /facepalm, that's a type-o thank you for pointing it out (response to the substance of your post incoming)

Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions 2880	Posted - 2013.08.05 19:50:00 - [21] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Nerf damage mods (read why before you flame). When discussing infantry tank (not HAV) balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When talking about role balance and definition between Medium Frames the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. When discussing comparative weapon balance the subject of damage mods comes up a lot. Damage mods are widely viewed as one of the most, perhaps the most, useful/valuable module type in the game. So lets nerf them, wait, wait, donGÇÖt flame me just yet. HereGÇÖs why: Armor is weaker than shields right now, but it is frequently pointed out that if they were equal Armor would become superior due to the free high slots for damage mods. Logi need high eHP to do real support work but it has been vigorously pointed out that Logi with high eHP + stacked damage mods can be GÇÿbetter slayersGÇÖ than the Assault suits, thus diminishing the role of that frame. There are other aspects but rather than elaborating further let me address the obvious question GÇ£How does nerfing a mod for everyone improve balance for anyone, that just keeps things the same doesnGÇÖt it?GÇ¥ Well, not quite, hereGÇÖs what I propose. Nerf damage mods, and give Assault suits some role buff to enhance the effectiveness of damage mods fit to their suit (so they still have the same ballpark of performance from them as now), give armor much better eHP mostly via buffer (but also the other things discussed here) and let things develop. Net effect on roles QCQ Scouts generally do not need damage mods to get 1-2 hit kills. Snipers would have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP Assaults for high Alpha damage Logi for supplies So snipers will be fine. AV would have also have a choice Scouts for stealth and speed Heavies for HP and use of the Forge Gun Assaults for high Alpha damage with Swarms/Plasma Logi for supplies Net AV balance remains approximately the same, now with greater role specialization/reason to use different frames based on play style. Assaults get a buff to their role as skirmishers/hit and run gankers. They'll be great slayers but won't be able to "stand in the fight" much. (This will also give Assaults some reason to seriously consider armor tanking despite the possible speed implications) Logi are able to build up meaningful eHP totals but even with stacked damage mods won't reach the dps output of a similarly built Assault suit. Heavy will lose a little bit of dps (but Heavies can't stack damage mods the way Med Frames can anyway so this will impact them less) and will get a meaningful boost to their overall eHP. They'll still be deadly in their optimal ranges and won't be as vulnerable to sudden death via one nade toss or a 'falank-n'gank' (unless it's an assault flanker). 0.02 ISK Cross I'm actually still holding out hope that they might remove them completely in favor of "mods" that you equip to the weapon itself, which would eliminate the whole problem.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1412	Posted - 2013.08.05 20:09:00 - [22] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Also, I think my suggestion is elegant and appropriate: What you want is something viable for logibros to favor their armor resiliance, but doesn't make them better slayers necessarily. Therefore: Ancillary Armor Booster - - highslot module (has to sacrifice slots for damage mods) - Multiplies the effect of armor repair rate by 25% to 45% per module (basically like a regulator) So trading 2 highslots could effectively free up a lowslot for either a utility module or more eHP. The trade-off for resiliance would make the most sense for logibros who need it as they are scrambling around the front lines and who are already getting a good starting base armor repair rate. Armor slayers who would want to be doing high alpha damage (amarr scrambler/laser users) wouldn't want to sacrifice the damage mods for regen. Their damage is based on alpha strikes anyway, so they need to get in and out. This means HP resiliance isn't as important as buffer. It's an interesting idea and worth exploring, certainly a high power armor mod would be a benefit, I've actually be an advocate of that concept for some time now. I wouldn't be opposed to testing this idea before making alterations to the damage mods, the one drawback I do see is that it still leaves all the misinformed "nerf logi so they can't fight" threads like the sidearm only idea etc. and the "X light weapon is OP" threads because someone isn't aware that the player using that weapon has stacked damage mods. Then again one suggestion isn't likely to fix those anyway so, yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing how this effects things before doing a pass on damage mods. Quote: My fundamental disagreement with you Cross is it seems like you want both armor and shield to be equal at close range. I think this would throw off balance on a number of levels. See my new Wu Xing post. Armor suits (high armor slot layout) should have the option of using their lowslots of eHP or speed/stealth and highslots for damage. So they get to pick 2 of those options. Armor slot logi's get a third option to use their slots for added fitting ability. Shield suits have the option of turning their abundant high slots into a either regen, buffer, or damage fit and basically can pick 2 of those. They also have the option of choosing a glass cannon fit using the limited lows for fitting. This does seem to be the crux of it, range is not part of tank type balance IMO, that is a part of weapon balance. Suits should have options build in not limits and tank types should be generally valuable not pre-restricted to a few select builds/uses. It's a sandbox we should have choices not prescriptions. Binding tank to range is much the same as binding racial suits to equipment types, it limits player innovation and reduces tactical value because someone can know what you're fielding just by looking at your suit. Having said all that I need to note that I have not yet read your linked thread and so will respond to that information once I have done so (sorry if there's something directly relevant which I have overlooked due to not yet reading it). Cheers, Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1412	Posted - 2013.08.05 20:11:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I'm actually still holding out hope that they might remove them completely in favor of "mods" that you equip to the weapon itself, which would eliminate the whole problem. I'd support that. Most of my feedback/suggestions are framed in a "minimal mechanical change to move from A to B" manner so they can at times lack the effecincy regarding in game effects of something with wider scope.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 56	Posted - 2013.08.05 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote lets just remove damage mods and leave the damage upgrade bonuses in the skills area...
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 971	Posted - 2013.08.06 03:47:00 - [25] - Quote I didn't want to start a thread for this, but wanted to note so as not to forget, but we discussed on IRC today that it would be reasonable to show the scan profile of the person that killed you so you can think to yourself, "I need to be aware of my detection better' or something. In general we do need a little better intel about WHY we were hit so hard. In Eve, you get the damage indicators that something hit a GLANCING blow, or that it was a CRITICAL hit. Some kind of indicator that suggested that hits were a % above normal optimal levels due to damage mods, or significantly below normal efficiency would be good. I'm wondering if the blood animation corresponds to this? If it does, I don't really notice it. I don't know what else you could do, besides make the arrow of where you are getting hit from more pronounced if its harder damage. Would it be worth a kind of yellow/red flashing -15 -20 -20 -25 in the bottom corner near your health for every hit you take. The bigger and bolder and more red something is the more of a critical hit it is.
Cat Merc DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY 3898	Posted - 2013.08.06 06:55:00 - [26] - Quote Sigh... Here we go again. Shields have kin cats, armor has damage mods. Shield users dictate range, armor is a better brawler. These are incompareables, you can't say one is better than the other, it's 100% opinion. You want to nerf damage mods? Then nerf kin cats. Oh and nerf regulators while you're at it. And CPU/PG upgrades.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions 2885	Posted - 2013.08.06 07:06:00 - [27] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I don't get your two 'snipers have a choice sections' Also, I think my suggestion is elegant and appropriate: What you want is something viable for logibros to favor their armor resiliance, but doesn't make them better slayers necessarily. Therefore: Ancillary Armor Booster - - highslot module (has to sacrifice slots for damage mods) - Multiplies the effect of armor repair rate by 25% to 45% per module (basically like a regulator) So trading 2 highslots could effectively free up a lowslot for either a utility module or more eHP. The trade-off for resiliance would make the most sense for logibros who need it as they are scrambling around the front lines and who are already getting a good starting base armor repair rate. Armor slayers who would want to be doing high alpha damage (amarr scrambler/laser users) wouldn't want to sacrifice the damage mods for regen. Their damage is based on alpha strikes anyway, so they need to get in and out. This means HP resiliance isn't as important as buffer. My fundamental disagreement with you Cross is it seems like you want both armor and shield to be equal at close range. I think this would throw off balance on a number of levels. See my new Wu Xing post. Armor suits (high armor slot layout) should have the option of using their lowslots of eHP or speed/stealth and highslots for damage. So they get to pick 2 of those options. Armor slot logi's get a third option to use their slots for added fitting ability. Shield suits have the option of turning their abundant high slots into a either regen, buffer, or damage fit and basically can pick 2 of those. They also have the option of choosing a glass cannon fit using the limited lows for fitting. That sounds like an excellent idea. Would that work for Reactive Plating as well?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2364	Posted - 2013.08.06 07:18:00 - [28] - Quote How much would you suggest nerfing them?
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 202	Posted - 2013.08.06 09:00:00 - [29] - Quote RKKR wrote: Screw forgegun sniping If armor will become equal to shields, wouldn't we be able to fit armor-modules in high slots too? But interessting concept... Haha I like how everyone thinks Armor must be identical to shields to be "balanced." Once shields get equipment that only benefit them should their be a high slot armor mod. To the OP, Aren't you ignoring Kin Cats and Cardiac Regulators in the high? Dealing damage and killing your opponent is only one part of winning a match. Shields have the advantage in speed. Speed to get to objectives and speed to flank is as important as just dealing more damage. One can't neuter dmg Mods and leave these unchanged.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 974	Posted - 2013.08.06 11:08:00 - [30] - Quote I think my idea would be even more cool if the boosters gave bonuses to remote reps. But that's probably difficult to program.



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