u do know that there is only one 3 point map right?? i think it would get really boring really fast, and as for the 8v8 i dont know about that either, what ccp needs to do is bring back corp battles, where corporations looking to be competitive can specify a time, number of players and a wager, but i do agree that ccp should open a new pc region though.

u do know that there is only one 3 point map right?? i think it would get really boring really fast, and as for the 8v8 i dont know about that either, what ccp needs to do is bring back corp battles, where corporations looking to be competitive can specify a time, number of players and a wager, but i do agree that ccp should open a new pc region though.

how often were the old battles 8v8, couldnt u always just bring a full 16 if u had the people??

how often were the old battles 8v8, couldnt u always just bring a full 16 if u had the people??


wth is PIG?

Also, I would point out that the 16 person team doesn't have to be fielded from a single corp. Make some friends, put out some feelers. There are probably a lot of corps in that situation. Contact some of the corps with few districts and play with them, convince them you're good, and offer to assist in future attacks or defenses

No the old Faction Warfare was strictly 8v8 battles and the only way to do corp v corp prior to PC.

Something I would like to see when CCP decides to further expand Planetary Conquest out of Molden Heath (or even within it) is a version of PC that might provide improved access for smaller corporations.

[TL;DR]: 8v8 Matches, Smaller (3-point) Maps, Less ISK Payout, Less Salvage, Smaller Bonues

Greater Participation

I think most Dust 514 players like the idea of Planetary Conquest and want to be involved in some aspect of the Meta Game. PC as it stands right now is restrictive and exclusive. The necessity of fielding 16 players consistently on consecutive nights is just not possible. To that some might say "tough kitten". But in a title that seems to be hemorrhaging players as the development team scrambles to fix core mechanics, wouldn't it seem fitting to provide even access to premiere game modes to all corporation...just in the interest of retention?

Joining alliances is the only way small corporations can participate and even then we are penalized through high taxes and low participation for all but exemplary players. With no mode that supports player development properly and a Faction Warfare system that does everything within its power to turn away serious competition, Planetary Conquest is the only way for good players to become better and better players to become great players because (ideally) you are fighting players that are most skilled and organized.

Smaller Matches

Most small to medium size corporations could support sustained 8v8 gameplay. Fought on smaller (3-point) maps, teams can still used proper tactics and strategies through organized play, while fighting meaningful battles. Vehicle limits could also be halved.

Smaller Reward

Obviously things should be scaled back some. Smaller districts should provide less incentive, especially to larger corporations/alliances that have the capability to fight full 16v16 matches. ISK payouts can be smaller, say somewhere between half to two-thirds current levels. Salvage recovery could also be reduced.

The bonuses and capabilities, inherent within the districts themselves, could also be less than standard sized territories. Stunted clone production and reduced storage capabilities would be required.


In the end you have a version of PC that is accessible but does not undermine the current model supported by larger organizations. More importantly you provide incentive to smaller groups without forcing them into marginalized game modes or living under the thumb of mega corps and alliances.

Lets call it a Small Business movement within New Eden.

EDIT: I failed to mention the impact such a change could have on recruitment for smaller corporations. Lets face it, there is not a deep well of players out there right now. Those that are serious about the game are obviously going to favor recruitment options that might provide them some opportunity to participate in PC. Right now smaller corps struggle because we generally do not have that to offer a prospective recruit.

In the case of my Corporation, we are actually part of a larger gaming community with over 500 members supporting multiple titles. Even internal recruitment is tough when you cannot offer something unique like PC.

Ultimately these opportunities could grow a corp to the point that they can begin to dip into the larger stakes and offer more competition at all levels. It certainly can't hurt the game in any substantial way.

While you do make a good point, I'd argue that in a gaming world where BIGGER is better, it would be better for DUST 514 to allow MORE players onto the battlefield with larger maps. And as I've stated. Open World.

Smaller teams will allow a smaller team of 'crack troops' to control even more territory. While you cater to small corps, the large corps that already dominate would be able to spread their influence even further... with the ability to DOUBLE their PC teams. Giving smaller corps an even harder time getting in, as they suddenly face a world where EVERY district is held by top-ranking corps.

Numerical Superiority is a valid tactic, and one that SHOULD be employed in this game. You have 400, they have 900... You MAY still be able to win... but geez would it be a good fight.

So, I vote no to smaller scale, and want to see the game upscaled.

Larger numbers, larger maps, more tactics and strategy, and the removal of the 'built in' match timers we have at the moment. Battle should last until the invading force has lost it ability to fight.

While you do make a good point, I'd argue that in a gaming world where BIGGER is better, it would be better for DUST 514 to allow MORE players onto the battlefield with larger maps. And as I've stated. Open World.

Smaller teams will allow a smaller team of 'crack troops' to control even more territory. While you cater to small corps, the large corps that already dominate would be able to spread their influence even further... with the ability to DOUBLE their PC teams. Giving smaller corps an even harder time getting in, as they suddenly face a world where EVERY district is held by top-ranking corps.

Numerical Superiority is a valid tactic, and one that SHOULD be employed in this game. You have 400, they have 900... You MAY still be able to win... but geez would it be a good fight.

So, I vote no to smaller scale, and want to see the game upscaled.

Larger numbers, larger maps, more tactics and strategy, and the removal of the 'built in' match timers we have at the moment. Battle should last until the invading force has lost it ability to fight.

While you do make a good point, I'd argue that in a gaming world where BIGGER is better, it would be better for DUST 514 to allow MORE players onto the battlefield with larger maps. And as I've stated. Open World.

Smaller teams will allow a smaller team of 'crack troops' to control even more territory. While you cater to small corps, the large corps that already dominate would be able to spread their influence even further... with the ability to DOUBLE their PC teams. Giving smaller corps an even harder time getting in, as they suddenly face a world where EVERY district is held by top-ranking corps.

Numerical Superiority is a valid tactic, and one that SHOULD be employed in this game. You have 400, they have 900... You MAY still be able to win... but geez would it be a good fight.

So, I vote no to smaller scale, and want to see the game upscaled.

Larger numbers, larger maps, more tactics and strategy, and the removal of the 'built in' match timers we have at the moment. Battle should last until the invading force has lost it ability to fight.

While I agree with the majority of your statement. I feel that match timers are needed. The idea that a small corp could ever participate would forever be out of the question if timers were taken away. Bigger is the way to go for sure. I even feel that if there were battles that could be run with 50/50 teams it would promote some very interesting changes in the way current corporation operate.

However I agree that the need for smaller corps to have the ability to be involved in certain game modes should be addressed. PC will lead to a PvE aspect within the game with drone infestations. It isn't fair that only district holders will be able to participate within that aspect of the game. (Although, I am not 100% on how the PvE will be worked.) If a district is needed to participate in PvE events then that is now 2 game modes smaller corps will be left out of.

When I think of the beginning of small corps being able to hold some sort of claim over a region I think of Wormhole space in EvE. Where a 5 member corp can make something for themselves as long as they understand what is needed. Why can't there be something to that effect in Dust.

New Eden caters to the long term players there is no doubt, but Dust is a different monster then EvE. If smaller corps get overlooked you end up hurting the game as a whole.

Good thoughts and suggestions but ultimately like in EVE those who are the best at what they do will own the lions share of...well everything and will always have the vision to keep taking whatever they can.

Even the most modest hunter should have the chance to stalk a lion.

While you do make a good point, I'd argue that in a gaming world where BIGGER is better, it would be better for DUST 514 to allow MORE players onto the battlefield with larger maps. And as I've stated. Open World.

Smaller teams will allow a smaller team of 'crack troops' to control even more territory. While you cater to small corps, the large corps that already dominate would be able to spread their influence even further... with the ability to DOUBLE their PC teams. Giving smaller corps an even harder time getting in, as they suddenly face a world where EVERY district is held by top-ranking corps.

Numerical Superiority is a valid tactic, and one that SHOULD be employed in this game. You have 400, they have 900... You MAY still be able to win... but geez would it be a good fight.

So, I vote no to smaller scale, and want to see the game upscaled.

Larger numbers, larger maps, more tactics and strategy, and the removal of the 'built in' match timers we have at the moment. Battle should last until the invading force has lost it ability to fight.

Doesn't mean the lion wont rip his face off and stuff the rest of his mangled corpse down its throat.....

A restructuring of PC battles is definitely needed. They don't currently feel at all like a conquest when fighting smaller corps and when facing groups from the top of the Leaderboards they can often be extremely challenging. Current mechanics allow, anyone dedicated to ruining a Corp, the ability to force mercs into a situation where they have to be online during their timer window or lose the district, causing a burnout effect when facing a stronger corp or one that has more isk. This battle of wills can cause a problem for mercs economically if they lose their battles as well as if they win as they are forced to field the best gear possible, totalling in the millions range for tank drivers, often totalling 2-5 million for players with who suffer massive losses whether they are in a tank or not.

A two fold solution to the problem should be made available, rather than just more seats at the table, the value of PC districts should be increased to allow mercs to deploy to their district at any time for a undetermined length of time that. This would allow us to train for PC and also explore our planets. This would allow an implementation of PVE to be actively pursued by devs and remove our shackles of Lobby matches in which we are all starting to hate Scotty the matchmaker a little more each patch.

Part two of this fix would allow mercs to board Eve spaceships for transport to planetary surfaces or to buy tickets to planets where the battles occurring in High Sec space could be "observed" and interacted with as they are happening. Would you flood the battlefield with Corp mates and wreck two other teams of mercenaries focused on killing each other in an ambush where you need no lobby timer around infrastructure you have no plans on controlling? Or would you bring with you a backup force to help support an overwhelmed Team fight back from the brink of destruction and secure the infrastructure against the attacking or defending team? Only time will tell.

Deploying without the need for a PC battle to the planet's surface is key for both parts of this solution and would solve many issues people are having about boredom, frustration and an inability to train for PC in a meaningful way. Since we are without a test server I suggest open the worlds. Open station doors to the possibility that Eve // Dust is One Universe // One War, isn't it time to walk side by side?

Something I would like to see when CCP decides to further expand Planetary Conquest out of Molden Heath (or even within it) is a version of PC that might provide improved access for smaller corporations.

[TL;DR]: 8v8 Matches, Smaller (3-point) Maps, Less ISK Payout, Less Salvage, Smaller Bonues

Greater Participation

I think most Dust 514 players like the idea of Planetary Conquest and want to be involved in some aspect of the Meta Game. PC as it stands right now is restrictive and exclusive. The necessity of fielding 16 players consistently on consecutive nights is just not possible. To that some might say "tough kitten". But in a title that seems to be hemorrhaging players as the development team scrambles to fix core mechanics, wouldn't it seem fitting to provide even access to premiere game modes to all corporation...just in the interest of retention?

Joining alliances is the only way small corporations can participate and even then we are penalized through high taxes and low participation for all but exemplary players. With no mode that supports player development properly and a Faction Warfare system that does everything within its power to turn away serious competition, Planetary Conquest is the only way for good players to become better and better players to become great players because (ideally) you are fighting players that are most skilled and organized.

Smaller Matches

Most small to medium size corporations could support sustained 8v8 gameplay. Fought on smaller (3-point) maps, teams can still used proper tactics and strategies through organized play, while fighting meaningful battles. Vehicle limits could also be halved.

Smaller Reward

Obviously things should be scaled back some. Smaller districts should provide less incentive, especially to larger corporations/alliances that have the capability to fight full 16v16 matches. ISK payouts can be smaller, say somewhere between half to two-thirds current levels. Salvage recovery could also be reduced.

The bonuses and capabilities, inherent within the districts themselves, could also be less than standard sized territories. Stunted clone production and reduced storage capabilities would be required.


In the end you have a version of PC that is accessible but does not undermine the current model supported by larger organizations. More importantly you provide incentive to smaller groups without forcing them into marginalized game modes or living under the thumb of mega corps and alliances.

Lets call it a Small Business movement within New Eden.

EDIT: I failed to mention the impact such a change could have on recruitment for smaller corporations. Lets face it, there is not a deep well of players out there right now. Those that are serious about the game are obviously going to favor recruitment options that might provide them some opportunity to participate in PC. Right now smaller corps struggle because we generally do not have that to offer a prospective recruit.

In the case of my Corporation, we are actually part of a larger gaming community with over 500 members supporting multiple titles. Even internal recruitment is tough when you cannot offer something unique like PC.

Ultimately these opportunities could grow a corp to the point that they can begin to dip into the larger stakes and offer more competition at all levels. It certainly can't hurt the game in any substantial way.

Okay I really like the ideas, but feel that a smaller team is not the answer. The answer is to make a varying size of battle based on map size, not just reduce the team size. It should allow for matches on districts varying from 4vs4 to 100vs100 and varying clone count maximums appropriately. This allows for a uniquely tactical style of PC battle instead of one size fits all. This would also allow for more corp participation in corps who have both many and few PC ready players.

Right. Just because I support smaller battles does not mean I don't support larger ones too. I am in favor of CCP making it as big as they can get it, honestly. But so long as they don't fail to see the forest for the trees. In this case, realize that there are many players who are shut out from PC due to the player number requirements.

If this was a thriving game with tens of thousands of active players and a multitude of thriving corporations then I would say 'go big, or go home'. It is not that. It is actually far from that. So the focus needs to be on keeping the current (and small) player base engaged. This change could help do that...and it doesn't require an exorbitant developer resources because all they need to do is copy what is already out there, just to a smaller scale.

From what I understand PC matches already have some stability issues. I am not sure that now is the time to jack things up to the likes of 100v100. Right? In fact, they should probably wait until the title moves to PS4 to try that kind of expansion.

Who is to say this couldn't be a thriving game (5k+-2k at a time doesn't count) on the PS3. Wouldn't the ability to have larger battles and smaller battles draw in a bigger audience with a few more options? I also feel that although it is a big undertaking, the open world idea should be given more thought and at least extended in small parts not only on Dust but Eve as well. With Rubicon on it's way (November 19th) the Dev conversations on Twitch.tv have led me to the conclusion that this is the direction they are headed sometime in the future if not tomorrow or the next day which I agree is a fairly agressesive aproach to the situation considering walking in stations (not in MQ or the Captains Quarters) will take a fair bit of design and testing to get right considering they are not only tweaking the Dust universe should it happen but the Eve universe as well.

This is of course something I believe they have implied by the advertisement of One Universe // One War campaign and feel that it would greatly increase CCP's market share in the genre that it has seemed to dominate and really mold over the last 10 years leading to expansion and growth we are now seeing. World of Darkness and Dust being only two of the projects that have come out of diligent work and careful planning of Eve to create a solid revenue stream to be able to do this sort of thing. The massive undertaking to mold each world has already been partially completed with the system to randomize map making and implement variations for each planet surface along with a reduction in map sizes originally during closed beta due to the real need to have smaller maps to be able to find targets to shoot has brought us to what we have today. With the implementation of an open world system the redzones would be removed and it would be necessary to use vehicles to get around, something I know many people really do not care for but are here to stay.

Many people have been asking for the new vehicles slated to come out such as fighters and speeders. The addition of open world game mode would allow these types of vehicles the ability to really shine, both for solo PVEers on speeders looking for drones to kill and for Fighter Pilots travelling long distances on reconnaissance or bombing/fire support missions for teams engaged in battle and allow a meaningful use for the dropships we have now for transporting troops. Can you imagine what it would be like to have an air borne company flying the ground troops in to battle in pythons with fighters escorting them to the battle field on a neighboring corporation's district while they are busy fighting off some overly aggressive drones?

Rome wasn't built in a day and I know Dust won't be completed in one either. This is all just feedback on where we want the game to go, better ideas should make a better game, unfortunately we have to start somewhere. I believe the randomly sized districts and battles is a good place to start as well as allowing us to explore planets. We don't need to start off being able to ambush a group of mercs already doing battle right away but I feel the move away from a solely lobby based shooter will add some uniqueness to the game as well as allow us the ability to really enjoy the fantastic maps that we have only ever been able to see small portions of. Dust is somewhat unique in the aspect that we have the choice to tell devs what we want to see done with our universe we are creating. This is what I absolutely love about the game.

Yes, what we need right now is the high sec -> low sec -> null sec progression that EVE has. RIght now you either do pub matches (high sec) or PC battles (null sec). There's no in-between. Even opening up the faction warfare system a bit more or (better yet) bringing back Corp battles would be make an improvement.

The problem with this is that it still won't really bring smaller corps into meaningful PC. PC requires a lot of logistics and diplomacy (meta gaming) to have a true meaningful impact in the universe. Decreasing the amount of players for a battle won't make it easier to hold more than a single base.

No the old Faction Warfare was strictly 8v8 battles and the only way to do corp v corp prior to PC.

[UPDATE] The recent presentation at EVE Vegas briefly discussed some future iterations on Planetary Conquest. Although no timeline was given, it seems development teams have already started map out some of these changes and how their implementation might effect game play.

The core element seems to be enhancing the War Barge to be player controlled. Meaning basically, EVE side players would be responsible for transporting clones designated for PC Battles to the necessary planet instead of the forces being deployed via NPC transport. Additional elements such as district based defense cannons (to attack War Barges in orbit) and a more developed industry system that would provide EVE players with raw materials were all discussed.

Of course the biggest changes that player controlled War Barged introduce are increased costs and increased risk for battling corporations and alliances. Player controlled War Barges will have to be purchased and the ships (and their cargo) will be vulnerable to attack by enemy forces and third parties alike. This means that ground based logistics will rely entirely on whether or not the clones can get to their destination.

This a great addition to the meta element of both Dust and EVE and will increase the connectivity of the two games significantly. But obviously based on my original post here, I have reservations. I have nothing against making the game bigger for those that can sustain those systems. Bigger scale is good but smaller scale is necessary for the game to grow and thrive.

Immediately after they started taking questions, one of the first comments from the audience was a request not to remove NPC War Barges from the game altogether. My thoughts exactly....add but don't subtract. To do so means less seats at the table, not more. And we need more seats if we are going to keep players engaged and grow the player base.

So based on this new direction I propose that eventually PC be split into two separate game modes. The first one being similar to what we now have that utilizes NCP War Barges and introduces the smaller PC matches I describe below. Obviously they could work in variations of planetary defense assets and industry into the mix. The second one can be a larger meta experiment utilizing more player controlled assets, incorporating more risk (and reward), and providing greater incentives to a more complex game play that mirrors Null Sec.

I do know PC isn't simple at all right now, but think about how big PC will suddenly get when both EVE and DUST have to be fighting at once !!!

u do know that there is only one 3 point map right?? i think it would get really boring really fast, and as for the 8v8 i dont know about that either, what ccp needs to do is bring back corp battles, where corporations looking to be competitive can specify a time, number of players and a wager, but i do agree that ccp should open a new pc region though.

Of course that sounds good in theory but don't you think that level of integration is better geared toward more advanced players. I do not think it is realistic for a new Dust 514 player, especially one that has no background in the EVE Universe, to venture into such a complex game mechanic as the Planetary Conquest they are talking about.

Players need to acclimate over time to the various aspects of the game at their disposal. Academy, Public Matches, Faction Warfare and then PC. But I think going from Faction Warfare to such a complex PC system might be too big of a jump...especially when you can do all of those other things without even belonging to a Corporation.

I think their is room in the game for tiered levels of Planetary Conquest that integrate more complex features as you move up the tiers. I do not think the expanded version of PC will super successful until the overall player base for the game is larger. And to get the numbers we need game modes that are easy to access and help players evolve.

Lastly with the whole idea of "more MMO in the MMO for dust" should mean larger player battles, not smaller ones. So I think it should scale clear up to 32v32 or 64v64. Perhaps scale districts accordingly. Have some districts only have 8v8, larger districts 64v64. Scale rewards accordingly.