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Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?
It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.
Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.
To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
988
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
head shot 4.5X now go out and feel like a cowboy. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1293
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Considering that the scrambler pistol is not an AR, I suggest you stay quiet so as not to raise your profile. The weapon is much more likely to get nerfed rather than buffed.
The AR nerf brigade is always on the lookout for a new victim. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
988
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Considering that the scrambler pistol is not an AR, I suggest you stay quiet so as not to raise your profile. The weapon is much more likely to get nerfed rather than buffed.
The AR nerf brigade is always on the lookout for a new victim. why haven't they nerf AFKing yet? |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
384
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
BScR Headshot.
Pwnsomeness.
Try the STD. Get some Headshots. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5140
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Flaylock is getting nerfed http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/explosive-dampening-weapon-rebalancing-in-uprising-1.3/ |
Nikea Nei
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.07.27 04:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
It could use a little range boost I think. The Flaylock has it beat there, and the SMG can make better use of the dmg falloff by sheer force of volume. More range wouldn't make it any easier to aim or headshot with. Just a thought.
As it is, I'd be concerned that the Ion Pistol (gallente sidearm) will outrange it just like the TAR outranges the Scrambler for some squirrelly reason. Gotta work on the weapon tech lore in this game a bit. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1105
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Posted - 2013.07.27 05:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
As a long time scrambler pistol specialist, i can unequivocally say it is not underpowered. If you're not getting headshots, you're not doing it right. If you can't get headshots, it's not the weapon for you - wait for the ion pistol or just use the smg.
I do agree with the range thing someone else said though, only a couple of meters or so or it would be too much. |
21yrOld Knight
187.
38
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Posted - 2013.07.27 06:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's not under powered. I use it a lot. There are times when i run out of AR ammo and i run scrambler pistol for the rest of a ambush. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3232
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Posted - 2013.07.27 06:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
The flaylock is way easier to fit since it only requires 2 PG at proto level. Even after it gets nerfed, we're still going to see a large number of them on the field. |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
989
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Posted - 2013.07.27 07:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:The flaylock is way easier to fit since it only requires 2 PG at proto level. Even after it gets nerfed, we're still going to see a large number of them on the field. true... just less kills since its range(splash) is getting a nerfing so better players can still use it effectively. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3232
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Posted - 2013.07.27 07:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Cosgar wrote:The flaylock is way easier to fit since it only requires 2 PG at proto level. Even after it gets nerfed, we're still going to see a large number of them on the field. true... just less kills since its range(splash) is getting a nerfing so better players can still use it effectively. I'm not going to claim to be psychic, but I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing a lot of flaylock spam and forum QQ about it after 1.3 |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1381
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Posted - 2013.07.27 08:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:As a long time scrambler pistol specialist, i can unequivocally say it is not underpowered. If you're not getting headshots, you're not doing it right. If you can't get headshots, it's not the weapon for you - wait for the ion pistol or just use the smg.
I do agree with the range thing someone else said though, only a couple of meters or so or it would be too much.
I'd give 5-7 optimal and maybe 10m to max. /shrug
I think the TAR outranging the Scrambler Rifle is a larger lore disconnect though. I think the pistol could use a boost in range, but part of that is that the Flaylock has no damage fall-off up to its max. The Scrambler gets the worst of the range bargain for sidearms. I say that without knowing how gimpy the other two will be, but if they just leave the Scrambler as the worst-range in the game... that seems off for a laser pistol. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 16:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
From the damage output of a single clip, it appears that CCP does not want the scrambler pistol to be a primary weapon. That could explain why it seems so underpowered.
With lvl 5 weapon profiency a prototype scrambler pistol with 88 + 88 x .15 is 102 dmg per bullet. That equals 612 total dmg per clip. The breach prototype does 135 + 135 x .15 for 156 dmg per bullet. That totals 621 with a full clip.
Now compare the above prototype scrambler pistols to the standard versions of the weapons below. Weapon proficiency has not been added to show the vast difference in damage and the amount of SP required to try and make the scrambler viable.
Since there are other underpowered weapons I only included the weapons that work decently well and are easier to aim than the scrambler. I didn't include the flaylock since it will change soon.
STD SMG = 23 x 80 for 1840 damage per magazine.
STD AR = 34 x 60 = 2040 damage per magazine.
STD HMG = 18 x 425 = 7650 damage per drum.
I think that either these weapons need smaller magazine sizes, the scrambler pistol needs a larger clip size unless it is not meant to be a primary weapon, suit HP needs to be reduced, or a little of each of these.
The scrambler pistol once was a very useful weapon and skilled players could use it as a primary. Those skilled players could even compete with AR users that weren't quite as skilled. It's been a while since I actually noticed scramblers being used, perhaps even before Chromosome, but it'd be awesome to see it back as an effective weapon. Really, it'd be nice to see all weapons as effective again, and not just in the overly skilled players, but in the hands of us average players. |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1226
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Posted - 2013.07.27 16:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
They should NOT change any of the numbers, except maybe just a bit more range as it is a laser.
The only buff the scrambler needs is better hipfire. If hipfire recoil and dispersion were reduced the pistol would be more useful in the times when you need some quick damage and can't use your primary.
Overall the scrambler pistol is fine, but improving the hipfire would make it more useful in CQC without making it a primary weapon. |
Smooth Assassin
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yes about 3 or more headshots with a SP can take down a STD in few seconds. More can kill a pro with low shield. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
760
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Scrambler Pistol is just fine. |
Psychotic Shooter
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
117
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?
It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.
Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.
To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed
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Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Psychotic Shooter wrote:Eno Raef wrote:Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?
It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.
Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.
To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed
It isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon as to whether it offers more effective headshot damage than other weapons so I can't simply assume that true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
178
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Scrambler Pistol is fine, hit detection isn't however.
Just wait for a few more patches to fix some more performance and aiming issues and the Scrambler Pistol will be perfect. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3267
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:Psychotic Shooter wrote:Eno Raef wrote:Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?
It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.
Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.
To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed This isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon so I don't know if it's true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons. That's the point- Player skill > weapon effectiveness. The more skill it takes to use something, the less effective the weapon is. ARs are the most effective weapon, but require the least amount of skill to use. Other weapons are harder to use based on difficulty to use or the niche situations they require. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Considering that the scrambler pistol is not an AR, I suggest you stay quiet so as not to raise your profile. The weapon is much more likely to get nerfed rather than buffed.
The AR nerf brigade is always on the lookout for a new victim.
Sadly, your cynicism may hold some truth. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Eno Raef wrote:Psychotic Shooter wrote:Eno Raef wrote:Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?
It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.
Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.
To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed This isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon so I don't know if it's true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons. That's the point- Player skill > weapon effectiveness. The more skill it takes to use something, the less effective the weapon is. ARs are the most effective weapon, but require the least amount of skill to use. Other weapons are harder to use based on difficulty to use or the niche situations they require.
This information is also not mentioned in the description and making any weapon less effective is not balance. Is CCP trying to balance the weapons or convince players into using the AR? When the skilled players are using the easiest weapons to handle then the other more difficult to use weapons are underpowered and everyone might as well use an AR. The weapons are more difficult to use because they are just that, underpowered. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3268
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Posted - 2013.07.27 17:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:This information is also not mentioned in the description and making any weapon less effective is not balance. Is CCP trying to balance the weapons or convince players into using the AR? When the most skilled players are using the easiest weapons to handle then the other more difficult to use weapons are underpowered and everyone might as well just use an AR. The weapons are more difficult to use because they are underpowered. This is actually a common way of balancing thing in multilayer games, not just in a FPS. Take unblockable attacks in the Tekken series for example. They require the easiest button input and deal the highest damage. But they're not always the best thing to use because harder to use moves, chain links, parries, and reversals are way more effective in their given situation. Back to FPS, full auto or spread weapons are the usual go to for new players, but aren't the best tactics when someone with a higher skill based weapon like a bolt action rifle can out perform them, despite giving up something. The standard AR variant is meant to be easy mode, but ti's too easy while the breach, burst under perform and the TAC AR is ignored though it's finally rebalanced. Other weapons are more fun to use, but a lot of them under perform in their given niche. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. The scrambler pistol is actually good as is. It could probably use a higher headshot modifier since the buff to EHP in Uprising, but I haven't used it outside of the academy. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
760
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 17:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:The Scrambler Pistol is fine, hit detection isn't however.
Just wait for a few more patches to fix some more performance and aiming issues and the Scrambler Pistol will be perfect.
Hit detection borked or not, I know I pissed someone off the other night.
Spawned in with my crosshair on a reddots face, R1, he dies, I decloak, it was epic. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3268
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 17:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:The Scrambler Pistol is fine, hit detection isn't however.
Just wait for a few more patches to fix some more performance and aiming issues and the Scrambler Pistol will be perfect. Hit detection borked or not, I know I pissed someone off the other night. Spawned in with my crosshair on a reddots face, R1, he dies, I decloak, it was epic. Even with hit detection and aiming screwed up, the SMG and SP seem to be the most consistent weapons. The breach SMG is especially nasty this time around. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
761
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 18:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:The Scrambler Pistol is fine, hit detection isn't however.
Just wait for a few more patches to fix some more performance and aiming issues and the Scrambler Pistol will be perfect. Hit detection borked or not, I know I pissed someone off the other night. Spawned in with my crosshair on a reddots face, R1, he dies, I decloak, it was epic. Even with hit detection and aiming screwed up, the SMG and SP seem to be the most consistent weapons. The breach SMG is especially nasty this time around.
Trusty, reliable, something I am proud to call my weapon of choice. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
56
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Posted - 2013.07.27 19:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Eno Raef wrote:This information is also not mentioned in the description and making any weapon less effective is not balance. Is CCP trying to balance the weapons or convince players into using the AR? When the most skilled players are using the easiest weapons to handle then the other more difficult to use weapons are underpowered and everyone might as well just use an AR. The weapons are more difficult to use because they are underpowered. This is actually a common way of balancing thing in multilayer games, not just in a FPS. Take unblockable attacks in the Tekken series for example. They require the easiest button input and deal the highest damage. But they're not always the best thing to use because harder to use moves, chain links, parries, and reversals are way more effective in their given situation. Back to FPS, full auto or spread weapons are the usual go to for new players, but aren't the best tactics when someone with a higher skill based weapon like a bolt action rifle can out perform them, despite giving up something. The standard AR variant is meant to be easy mode, but ti's too easy while the breach, burst under perform and the TAC AR is ignored though it's finally rebalanced. Other weapons are more fun to use, but a lot of them under perform in their given niche. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. The scrambler pistol is actually good as is. It could probably use a higher headshot modifier since the buff to EHP in Uprising, but I haven't used it outside of the academy.
I see what your saying. I would compare Dust to other FPS and how they design pistols. Pistols are generally not as powerful as other weapons but with one clip, a pistol can kill other players without headshots. The pistol can even be run as a primary weapon in other FPS games. In Dust, due to the ability of dropsuits to amass large amounts of HP, the scrambler pistol is not at all a good choice as a primary weapon. Even with the militia suits, the pistol user still has a difficult time killing with one clip while other weapons have well more than enough bullets to kill numerous militia suits. However, CCP may have designed the scrambler pistol to be vastly underpowered to other weapons to reduce it's ability to function as a primary weapon since it is a sidearm. If that was the case, the SMG would be as underpowered as the scrambler pistol.
Making any weapon harder to use only lessens it's use. Players of all skills will generally gravitate to the weapons that allow them to get the most kills. Weapons should be balanced to other weapons, not to player skill. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1109
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Posted - 2013.07.27 19:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
I use the scrambler pistol as my primary and have done for at least the last 6 months. You get a 450% bonus to headshot damage, making it a high skill high reward weapon. If it takes you an entire clip to kill anything less than a highly tanked proto or heavy suit, you're not getting headshots and need to aim up and aim better.
I one shot most suits with a headshot and at least take out all the shields on anything I can't OHK. You NEED to get that headshot though and that is tough (but not impossible) when they're dancing around. But the most important point is that nothing is wrong with them - they just require more skill than you apparently have. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3273
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 19:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:
I see what your saying. I would compare Dust to other FPS and how they design pistols. Pistols are generally not as powerful as other weapons but with one clip, a pistol can kill other players without headshots. The pistol can even be run as a primary weapon in other FPS games. In Dust, due to the ability of dropsuits to amass large amounts of HP, the scrambler pistol is not at all a good choice as a primary weapon. Even with the militia suits, the pistol user still has a difficult time killing with one clip while other weapons have well more than enough bullets to kill numerous militia suits. However, CCP may have designed the scrambler pistol to be vastly underpowered to other weapons to reduce it's ability to function as a primary weapon since it is a sidearm. If that was the case, the SMG would be as underpowered as the scrambler pistol.
Making any weapon harder to use only lessens it's use. Players of all skills will generally gravitate to the weapons that allow them to get the most kills. Weapons should be balanced to other weapons, not to player skill.
If this were true, why aren't we all running around with ARs then? Some people want to have more fun than be effective. |
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