DUST Search - The scrambler pistol is underpowered

Cosgar wrote:

Eno Raef wrote:

Psychotic Shooter wrote:

Eno Raef wrote:

Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol?

It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not.

Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some.

To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.

Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them
btw the flaylock is getting nerfed

This isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon so I don't know if it's true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons.

That's the point- Player skill > weapon effectiveness. The more skill it takes to use something, the less effective the weapon is. ARs are the most effective weapon, but require the least amount of skill to use. Other weapons are harder to use based on difficulty to use or the niche situations they require.


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Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 04:41:00 - [1] - Quote Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol? It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not. Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some. To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:25:00 - [2] - Quote From the damage output of a single clip, it appears that CCP does not want the scrambler pistol to be a primary weapon. That could explain why it seems so underpowered. With lvl 5 weapon profiency a prototype scrambler pistol with 88 + 88 x .15 is 102 dmg per bullet. That equals 612 total dmg per clip. The breach prototype does 135 + 135 x .15 for 156 dmg per bullet. That totals 621 with a full clip. Now compare the above prototype scrambler pistols to the standard versions of the weapons below. Weapon proficiency has not been added to show the vast difference in damage and the amount of SP required to try and make the scrambler viable. Since there are other underpowered weapons I only included the weapons that work decently well and are easier to aim than the scrambler. I didn't include the flaylock since it will change soon. STD SMG = 23 x 80 for 1840 damage per magazine. STD AR = 34 x 60 = 2040 damage per magazine. STD HMG = 18 x 425 = 7650 damage per drum. I think that either these weapons need smaller magazine sizes, the scrambler pistol needs a larger clip size unless it is not meant to be a primary weapon, suit HP needs to be reduced, or a little of each of these. The scrambler pistol once was a very useful weapon and skilled players could use it as a primary. Those skilled players could even compete with AR users that weren't quite as skilled. It's been a while since I actually noticed scramblers being used, perhaps even before Chromosome, but it'd be awesome to see it back as an effective weapon. Really, it'd be nice to see all weapons as effective again, and not just in the overly skilled players, but in the hands of us average players.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:20:00 - [3] - Quote Psychotic Shooter wrote: Eno Raef wrote: Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol? It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not. Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some. To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered. Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed It isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon as to whether it offers more effective headshot damage than other weapons so I can't simply assume that true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:27:00 - [4] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Considering that the scrambler pistol is not an AR, I suggest you stay quiet so as not to raise your profile. The weapon is much more likely to get nerfed rather than buffed. The AR nerf brigade is always on the lookout for a new victim. Sadly, your cynicism may hold some truth.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:30:00 - [5] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Eno Raef wrote: Psychotic Shooter wrote: Eno Raef wrote: Is the flaylock replacing the scrambler pistol since the flaylock greatly outdamages the scrambler pistol? It seems that both take about the same amount of aim to get a direct hit but the proto scramblers takes 4 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit, the Advanced TY Breach scrambler takes 3 rounds to kill a Caldari militia drop suit. That is if you can actually hit the target. The Standard flay lock only takes 2 rounds to kill a Caldari militia suit no matter if it's a direct hit or not. Any proto suit with 600 plus HP only takes 3 rounds of the standard flaylock while every proto scrambler pistol will require your entire clip and then some. To me, it seems the scrambler pistol is underpowered. Dude the scrambler pistol is designed for head shots as it has a massive bonus for getting them btw the flaylock is getting nerfed This isn't mentioned in the description of the weapon so I don't know if it's true. If the scrambler is truly only for headshots, then it's not a very viable weapon since other weapons are much easier to use, making them much more effective and leaving the scrambler seemingly underpowered compared to those weapons. That's the point- Player skill > weapon effectiveness. The more skill it takes to use something, the less effective the weapon is. ARs are the most effective weapon, but require the least amount of skill to use. Other weapons are harder to use based on difficulty to use or the niche situations they require. This information is also not mentioned in the description and making any weapon less effective is not balance. Is CCP trying to balance the weapons or convince players into using the AR? When the skilled players are using the easiest weapons to handle then the other more difficult to use weapons are underpowered and everyone might as well use an AR. The weapons are more difficult to use because they are just that, underpowered.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 19:30:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Eno Raef wrote: This information is also not mentioned in the description and making any weapon less effective is not balance. Is CCP trying to balance the weapons or convince players into using the AR? When the most skilled players are using the easiest weapons to handle then the other more difficult to use weapons are underpowered and everyone might as well just use an AR. The weapons are more difficult to use because they are underpowered. This is actually a common way of balancing thing in multilayer games, not just in a FPS. Take unblockable attacks in the Tekken series for example. They require the easiest button input and deal the highest damage. But they're not always the best thing to use because harder to use moves, chain links, parries, and reversals are way more effective in their given situation. Back to FPS, full auto or spread weapons are the usual go to for new players, but aren't the best tactics when someone with a higher skill based weapon like a bolt action rifle can out perform them, despite giving up something. The standard AR variant is meant to be easy mode, but ti's too easy while the breach, burst under perform and the TAC AR is ignored though it's finally rebalanced. Other weapons are more fun to use, but a lot of them under perform in their given niche. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. The scrambler pistol is actually good as is. It could probably use a higher headshot modifier since the buff to EHP in Uprising, but I haven't used it outside of the academy. I see what your saying. I would compare Dust to other FPS and how they design pistols. Pistols are generally not as powerful as other weapons but with one clip, a pistol can kill other players without headshots. The pistol can even be run as a primary weapon in other FPS games. In Dust, due to the ability of dropsuits to amass large amounts of HP, the scrambler pistol is not at all a good choice as a primary weapon. Even with the militia suits, the pistol user still has a difficult time killing with one clip while other weapons have well more than enough bullets to kill numerous militia suits. However, CCP may have designed the scrambler pistol to be vastly underpowered to other weapons to reduce it's ability to function as a primary weapon since it is a sidearm. If that was the case, the SMG would be as underpowered as the scrambler pistol. Making any weapon harder to use only lessens it's use. Players of all skills will generally gravitate to the weapons that allow them to get the most kills. Weapons should be balanced to other weapons, not to player skill.