DUST Search - So unless you joined before June, CCP doesn't care

shin suki wrote:

So because you knew how to junction material to a weapon at the end of a tutorial you were an expert, you knew of maxing out xp on it to make duplicates, how all future companion materia would be used, how certain effect materia worked with some and not others, how some weapons modified xp growth.... I call B.S., you were introduced to it and needed time to mess around with it to figure it out.

anyway to go ahead and provide the figures for why newbs do not stand even a bit of a chance against protobears, and why player skill amounts to nothign here:

ok so militia assault rifle, 34 hp dmg*`4.5% (2 heatsinks) *48 rnd clip = 1704 HP dmg....
no skills apply to militia gear, and newberries have no skills really so we will leav it at that, Also your shot grouping is far less accurate due to nothing helping out rifle kick or accuracy

duovolle 37.4 HP dmg * 1.15 for proficiency *1.15 (2 protosinks)*60rndclip*1.25 for ammo skill=3709 HP dmg...
wow thats totally balanced.
with a 25% tighter bullet grouping and 25% less rifle kick even further improving grouping,

Lets do suits too ok?

militia suit 180 hp shield + 180 hp armor and 3 total slots that can be used for tanking totaling 380
vs.
amarr assualt proto 180 hp shield *1.25 (skill) =225 hp + 180 hp armor *1.25(armor amount skill)*1.10 (armor resistance skill)=247 HP altogether totaling 472 with 5 possible tanking slots.

lets just assume some armor plates in everyones low slots since they are amarr to amke things easy (not nessicarily how you would want to go)

2 armor plates for militia boy makes 460 HP
2 armor plates for protobear makes 750HP with 2 plates and a dmg mod or 889 HP with 3 plates.

This is of course neglecting the 25% faster shield recharge time from the suit or the even faster amount of shield recharge gained per second due to having more shields total.....

This doesn't take into account numerous other advantages. Yeah I think that gap might be a bit much.

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sixteensixty4 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:12:00 - [31] - Quote I agree that the proto stomping, its harsh on new players, i think most people would agree, plus aimings a bit borked also which isnt helping anyone however you only really need adv suit and gun which doesnt take long to get with some lvl 1 modules and, i dont know for sure, but if you cap every week i can see someone getting that within 1 month easy, dont solo the frountlines.... run with other blues... some kind of matchmaking is on its way, although feck knows when re-specs because you cant read \ research, fecked up your skill tree, GTFO, its not difficult to work out, theres milita gear to play with so you can get a rough idea what role you want to play, rookie training grounds has loads of sound info and people will gladly give advice in there
Brolaire of Asstoria Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 44	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:15:00 - [32] - Quote He keeps calling people "neckbeards" and he's the one arguing his socks off bout how unfair all of our respecs were.... And how we played the game before him.... Next he'll tell us he actually can believe its not butter!
shin suki Bragian Order Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:22:00 - [33] - Quote Another Heavy SOB: "Cry moar." "entitled whiny little ***." "Your ignorance knows no bounds does it? " "..Cry Moar noob." and then you say this "Oh, we're hurling insults now? Just goes to show how strong your argument really is. " Really....really... i mean really? C'mon, either you have a split personality or you just tried to take some moral high-ground after repeatedly "hurling insults" yourself. Duran Lex: Ok, disprove me. I know I can empty damn near a full clip directly into a proto assualt suit and he still lives,and I know 4-5 shots from a duovall and I die, and I know this giant disparity makes contest of skill impossible. Oh and BS on FF7, no one was an expert on materia after the initial tutorial, no one. To say otherwise is to be dishonest. RydogV: Shame does not lie with you, but CCP for setting a presidence of allowing FULL respecs to one segment of the community and not another. Yes changes were made, but in those changes an opportunity for people whom had previously chosen poorly to correct those choices was also given. No such opportunity exists for subsequent players. I can't believe I am even arguing with you guys who were allowed the respec on this. It is analogous to wanting some wine, and the guy who had some before you saying "no, I needed it and you don't so no." You guys are a perfect example of the "** you, got mine" mindset.
Kaltos Darksbane The Lionheart Coalition Lokun Listamenn 3	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:36:00 - [34] - Quote Up front I want it to be known that I am a total noob. Been in Dust less than two weeks. Now that said, please OP understand that everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up. Quit crying and play the game or leave it. What did you expect? To start new in the game and be able to compete with the vets that have been here since the beginning? Nearly every match at some point I encounter someone in a proto suit with a proto weapon and I get my *** handed to me before I even know what happened. I've never ran to the forums and QQ'ed about how unfair it is. I realize at some point it will be me as the protobear and just look forward to that day. So until then I just give the vets thier props and if need be ask them a few questions about how to be a better clone. Never had a vet be rude but only had them give good advice and an encouraging word. They may give you a little playful banter but thats to be expected. To sum up...Get over yourself and get playing and earn your way to the top levels like the rest of us.
Another Heavy SOB TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 450	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:37:00 - [35] - Quote Lol you're right, I was insulting. But in my defense I am by nature an *******, and your exaggerations and false statements are a sign of stupidity or atleast ignorance. By the way...A full clip huh? So assuming you're using a basic AR that means you ran into someone with 2000+ EHP on their proto suit? Maybe your just a bad shot and 50-75% of that clip missed?
Duran Lex Silver Talon Corporation 84	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:40:00 - [36] - Quote shin suki wrote: Another Heavy SOB: "Cry moar." "entitled whiny little ***." "Your ignorance knows no bounds does it? " "..Cry Moar noob." and then you say this "Oh, we're hurling insults now? Just goes to show how strong your argument really is. " Really....really... i mean really? C'mon, either you have a split personality or you just tried to take some moral high-ground after repeatedly "hurling insults" yourself. Duran Lex: Ok, disprove me. I know I can empty damn near a full clip directly into a proto assualt suit and he still lives,and I know 4-5 shots from a duovall and I die, and I know this giant disparity makes contest of skill impossible. Oh and BS on FF7, no one was an expert on materia after the initial tutorial, no one. To say otherwise is to be dishonest. RydogV: Shame does not lie with you, but CCP for setting a presidence of allowing FULL respecs to one segment of the community and not another. Yes changes were made, but in those changes an opportunity for people whom had previously chosen poorly to correct those choices was also given. No such opportunity exists for subsequent players. I can't believe I am even arguing with you guys who were allowed the respec on this. It is analogous to wanting some wine, and the guy who had some before you saying "no, I needed it and you don't so no." You guys are a perfect example of the "** you, got mine" mindset. I use a STD suit, with STD mods, and ADV HMG/Forge. You are simply complaining about your lack of skill at playing the game and lack of thought decision making on what to spec into. Everyone was an expert on materia after the tutorial. it told you EXACTLY how to socket materia for any desired effect you wanted. You know what i did after learning how to use materia? A simple process that any person with marginal intelligence would do in ANY game they play : Theory craft. i simply started combining materia based on the knowledge given to me, and tested it in battles to see the result. It's really not hard to play games. Maybe you should pay more attention to what you are doing in game, and learn.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2668	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:43:00 - [37] - Quote shin suki wrote: PsychoLogiKal PsyDrei wrote: I can't speak for others but I was straight lied to in the skill descriptions of the skills that I skilled into because of whoevers job it was to change the skill descriptions of skills when they made the new skill tree was too lazy to make a line by line changelog and double check his/her work against it to make sure that he/she had changed the descriptors for every skill that had its skill completely changed from what it was pre-uprising. That's why I wanted and ultimately got a respect. If CCP makes as big a mistake as they did with the deployment of the new skill tree with something else of that nature in the future, I would expect the same public outcry as there was when uprising came out and with I would assume the same result. Doesn't change the fact that you were allowed a full respec.... meaning that aside from those feew skills, any possible mistakes were within your ability to wipe clean. KGB Sleep wrote: CCP had to do a respec. They altered the skill tree. On top of that it was their official launch of the game. Doesn't change the fact that everyone with prior knowledge of how skills worked gained an outrageous advantage over every single player that will ever follow them. Foundation Seldon wrote: Don't forget that our SP rates in Beta were easily 5xs the current amount and we had daily caps vs. weekly caps to gain SP. Good times. This has to be sarcasm. It's not sarcasm, but he's referring to different stages of the Beta in the same sentence. At the time that they did the last reset, we were on a similar basis to what we have now. However, back last summer we still had a 400% bonus to SP gain and no cap, which is part of what illustrated for everyone how hopeless the game was for anyone new with that kind of system.
Brolaire of Asstoria Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 44	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:55:00 - [38] - Quote So this is basically another respec thread cunningly disguised as an "its not fair that I only picked this game up a while ago and everyone's got more SP than me so fix it CCP" thread. Just.....NO Suki! The other gents have done quite a good job of explaining the reasons as to why they happened and its not our fault we've been playing since closed beta or open beta or just a week before you started. If you'd read up on the game before jumping in you would've known about the way the game worked. Might have saved you some wasted time. I am sorry to hear things aren't going your way here in New Eden but everyone started out at the same point so just....I dunno I'll leave it open for you Oh and before you say it I neither have a beard or a neck (Skiing accident a few years back)
shin suki Bragian Order Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.07.24 13:28:00 - [39] - Quote So because you knew how to junction material to a weapon at the end of a tutorial you were an expert, you knew of maxing out xp on it to make duplicates, how all future companion materia would be used, how certain effect materia worked with some and not others, how some weapons modified xp growth.... I call B.S., you were introduced to it and needed time to mess around with it to figure it out. anyway to go ahead and provide the figures for why newbs do not stand even a bit of a chance against protobears, and why player skill amounts to nothign here: ok so militia assault rifle, 34 hp dmg1.045 (2 heatsinks) 48 rnd clip = 1704 HP dmg.... no skills apply to militia gear, and newberries have no skills really so we will leav it at that, Also your shot grouping is far less accurate due to nothing helping out rifle kick or accuracy duovolle 37.4 HP dmg * 1.15 for proficiency 1.15 (2 protosinks)60rndclip1.25 for ammo skill=3709 HP dmg... wow thats totally balanced. with a 25% tighter bullet grouping and 25% less rifle kick even further improving grouping, Lets do suits too ok? militia suit 180 hp shield + 180 hp armor and 3 total slots that can be used for tanking totaling 380 vs. amarr assualt proto 180 hp shield 1.25 (skill) =225 hp + 180 hp armor 1.25(armor amount skill)1.10 (armor resistance skill)=247 HP altogether totaling 472 with 5 possible tanking slots. lets just assume some armor plates in everyones low slots since they are amarr to amke things easy (not nessicarily how you would want to go) 2 armor plates for militia boy makes 460 HP 2 armor plates for protobear makes 750HP with 2 plates and a dmg mod or 889 HP with 3 plates. This is of course neglecting the 25% faster shield recharge time from the suit or the even faster amount of shield recharge gained per second due to having more shields total..... This doesn't take into account numerous other advantages. Yeah I think that gap might be a bit much.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 270	Posted - 2013.07.24 13:36:00 - [40] - Quote OP is right Having been here since replication I have had so many sp resets that I am soooooo far better off than any new player coming into this game trying to work out what to spend their SP on and what type of weapons would suit them. No wasted SP for me

Duran Lex Silver Talon Corporation 86	Posted - 2013.07.24 13:37:00 - [41] - Quote shin suki wrote: So because you knew how to junction material to a weapon at the end of a tutorial you were an expert, you knew of maxing out xp on it to make duplicates, how all future companion materia would be used, how certain effect materia worked with some and not others, how some weapons modified xp growth.... I call B.S., you were introduced to it and needed time to mess around with it to figure it out. anyway to go ahead and provide the figures for why newbs do not stand even a bit of a chance against protobears, and why player skill amounts to nothign here: ok so militia assault rifle, 34 hp dmg`4.5% (2 heatsinks) 48 rnd clip = 1704 HP dmg.... no skills apply to militia gear, and newberries have no skills really so we will leav it at that, Also your shot grouping is far less accurate due to nothing helping out rifle kick or accuracy duovolle 37.4 HP dmg * 1.15 for proficiency 1.15 (2 protosinks)60rndclip1.25 for ammo skill=3709 HP dmg... wow thats totally balanced. with a 25% tighter bullet grouping and 25% less rifle kick even further improving grouping, Lets do suits too ok? militia suit 180 hp shield + 180 hp armor and 3 total slots that can be used for tanking totaling 380 vs. amarr assualt proto 180 hp shield 1.25 (skill) =225 hp + 180 hp armor 1.25(armor amount skill)1.10 (armor resistance skill)=247 HP altogether totaling 472 with 5 possible tanking slots. lets just assume some armor plates in everyones low slots since they are amarr to amke things easy (not nessicarily how you would want to go) 2 armor plates for militia boy makes 460 HP 2 armor plates for protobear makes 750HP with 2 plates and a dmg mod or 889 HP with 3 plates. This is of course neglecting the 25% faster shield recharge time from the suit or the even faster amount of shield recharge gained per second due to having more shields total..... This doesn't take into account numerous other advantages. Yeah I think that gap might be a bit much. No, because i knew how to junction materia, i was able to have no issues junctioning materia to find out what i wanted to use. You are failing to see its "USER ERROR" thats making you upset at this game. And why the hell are you using MLT suits? You do realise you have the SP to spec into any STD suit in the game IMMEDIATELY after creating your character. You play one game, you now have the ISK to buy the skillbook. Problem solved. If you are having a problem against other players, try upgrading your gear. But i suppose you play RPG's and try to end game at lvl 1. I've never felt the need to say this, but HTFU and upgrade your suit, boy.
sixteensixty4 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2013.07.24 13:38:00 - [42] - Quote shin suki wrote: So because you knew how to junction material to a weapon at the end of a tutorial you were an expert, you knew of maxing out xp on it to make duplicates, how all future companion materia would be used, how certain effect materia worked with some and not others, how some weapons modified xp growth.... I call B.S., you were introduced to it and needed time to mess around with it to figure it out. anyway to go ahead and provide the figures for why newbs do not stand even a bit of a chance against protobears, and why player skill amounts to nothign here: ok so militia assault rifle, 34 hp dmg`4.5% (2 heatsinks) 48 rnd clip = 1704 HP dmg.... no skills apply to militia gear, and newberries have no skills really so we will leav it at that, Also your shot grouping is far less accurate due to nothing helping out rifle kick or accuracy duovolle 37.4 HP dmg * 1.15 for proficiency 1.15 (2 protosinks)60rndclip1.25 for ammo skill=3709 HP dmg... wow thats totally balanced. with a 25% tighter bullet grouping and 25% less rifle kick even further improving grouping, Lets do suits too ok? militia suit 180 hp shield + 180 hp armor and 3 total slots that can be used for tanking totaling 380 vs. amarr assualt proto 180 hp shield 1.25 (skill) =225 hp + 180 hp armor 1.25(armor amount skill)1.10 (armor resistance skill)=247 HP altogether totaling 472 with 5 possible tanking slots. lets just assume some armor plates in everyones low slots since they are amarr to amke things easy (not nessicarily how you would want to go) 2 armor plates for militia boy makes 460 HP 2 armor plates for protobear makes 750HP with 2 plates and a dmg mod or 889 HP with 3 plates. This is of course neglecting the 25% faster shield recharge time from the suit or the even faster amount of shield recharge gained per second due to having more shields total..... This doesn't take into account numerous other advantages. Yeah I think that gap might be a bit much. Milita heavy frame, no skills req, 405 hp shield 304 hp amour add on some milita modules to bump that a little Job done untill you can save some sp im running minmater basic with 3 basic shield extenders and a basic repper 232 hp shield 155 hp amour with a milita rifle and yeah ok so i got proto flaylock, but that only cost like 600k sp, thats only like 2 weeks worth of sp honestly, quit crying
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 689	Posted - 2013.07.24 13:47:00 - [43] - Quote Honestly I am not one to usualy go the whole HTFU route.....but seriously........HTFU There used to be a greater difference between militia gear and proto gear.....they nerfed that difference to the extent where good players to easily take on and destroy proto geared players.....I know cause I do it all the time. TBH the bigger failing is CCP putting ppl with 10-15 mill SP together with players who have 2-3 mill SP and to top it off they do not balance the teams accordingly so its possible to have a full team of 10+ mill SP players vs a team of 2-3 mill SP players.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 837	Posted - 2013.07.24 14:13:00 - [44] - Quote shin suki wrote: [...] Ok, disprove me. I know I can empty damn near a full clip directly into a proto assualt suit and he still lives,and I know 4-5 shots from a duovall and I die, and I know this giant disparity makes contest of skill impossible.[...] Ok then: 31x60=1860 A full clip of a STD AR will kill just about anyone as even the most tanky suits cap out at around 1k maybe 1.1k, most way below that. This does not include any dmg bonuses from skills/mods or the occasional headshot. Conclusion: l2aim buddy
Vavilia Lysenko Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 192	Posted - 2013.07.24 14:22:00 - [45] - Quote shin suki wrote: insurmountable skill and isk advantages. They are not insurmountable. Application of SP and patience, will get your chosen weapon/suit to the same level as the player with the highest SP in game. It's not like weapons keep getting more powerful with every extra SP you have. You won't be as adaptable as they are in a match, but one suit, one gun you will be on equal footing. Then CCP will then balance things and you will be back here demanding a respec. Such is life.
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2013.07.24 14:33:00 - [46] - Quote New players joining any FPS months after release are always at a disadvantage. Why should it be any different with DUST514?
Crow Splat DUST University Ivy League 64	Posted - 2013.07.24 14:42:00 - [47] - Quote I like OP's comparison of a militia AR with no mods vs. a proto AR with mods as a valid argument. OP skill into standard medium of any flavor, standard AR, and standard SMG. All modules can be militia and should be stacking tank. Queue up in ambush and practice. I have no issues getting 10 kills a match and staying positive k/d with this fit. You will also stay isk positive as well so no worries on being broke.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5456	Posted - 2013.07.24 14:43:00 - [48] - Quote Are you complaining about people getting 5 suits?
Gogo O'Dell Psygod9 RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2013.07.24 15:21:00 - [49] - Quote I don't like you OP. BETA PLAYERS FOREVER....well, actually most of us hate this game by now and are waiting for GTA5 or PSA games. Lol
Vickers S Grunt Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 167	Posted - 2013.07.24 16:09:00 - [50] - Quote All these poor guys who need a respec maby CCp can give u the one i did not bother using I still have basic suit level 5 and i am sure it will come in handy eventually

KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 156	Posted - 2013.07.24 16:40:00 - [51] - Quote shin suki wrote: Apparently, all the players who joined before June of this year got to become intimately familiar with the game and it's mechanics, build up SP, and then respec any wasted SP however they saw fit. Are you kidding me? So beside having months head start in sp, these players needed more advantages and you allowed them to redistribute sp AFTER they knew what they were doing??? In what frame of mind must you be for this to be acceptable? Honestly CCP, how badly do you hate new players? First off we can be just about OHKO but all the protobears, we are massively outclassed, not skill wise, but by insurmountable skill and isk advantages, and now this? A new player has no idea what he is doing with sp, but for all you new players before June you got free do-overs.... the rest of us are just out of luck I guess. Email me when you figure out why your game is dying. Welcome to new eden adapt or die that's what the Eve tards say, blame them.
The legend345 TeamPlayers EoN. 795	Posted - 2013.07.24 16:41:00 - [52] - Quote HTFU thank u have a nice day :)
Alucard Fang Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 266	Posted - 2013.07.24 16:44:00 - [53] - Quote There's always going to be people with advantages. Let's say you play this game, and you keep playing it, five years from now, some new kid joins, should he demand respecs or resets and say it's not fair?
Damus Trifarn The Yellow Lantern Corps 3	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:03:00 - [54] - Quote There will always be advantages that veterans have over new players. They played before the new players, and their experience and gear was earned just as you are earning your gear now. It's the same way in any game. Battlefield 3 and MAG are prime examples. You have to earn the gear and skills over time, and while you are at a disadvantage it is very possible to climb the ladder and get the same gear, even if it takes awhile. Plus, the Militia gear is still fully capable of getting the job done. I occasionally use Militia gear when I need to conserve ISK, and I still do very well. Also, this huge gap in equipment and skill won't be a huge issue once the matchmaking is fixed (hopefully very soon).
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 799	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:08:00 - [55] - Quote we should all go to the COD forums and cry about not having any prestige or cry because ppl have perks before we do i think we could get those devs to give us everything upon installing and i'm sure their community would receive us with open arms and they will agree that their game is not fair to us.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 799	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:13:00 - [56] - Quote shin suki wrote: A new player has no idea what he is doing with sp, a smart new player would check the rookie training ground, ask intelligent questions, and try to network with ppl who have experience. this excludes about 95% of the PSN population who think they're entitled to massive hand holding and being spoonfed everything just because they picked up the game.
steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 977	Posted - 2013.07.24 17:21:00 - [57] - Quote ....their is so much wrong in this thread I don't think anyone here is a beta player...or based on some comments even play this game. At OP. We got a respect because they changed the whole skill tree and then got it wrong. That's why they did it. The rest of your arguments is new vs old players and is simply pointless in am MMO setting.. Sorry
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 77	Posted - 2013.07.25 00:40:00 - [58] - Quote shin suki wrote: demonkiller 12 wrote: My friend was able to pick this game up a month ago with no prior knowledge i didnt even tell him anything, and hes doing fine with 2.5mSP, stop your ***** crying and man up Yeah and I a have a friend who started playing a month ago and has had nothing but problems and now can't do anything. See I can play the imaginary person game too!!! And man up?? This is a videogame, about the least manly thing you could do? man up... sure neckbeard. the difference being your friend was/is **** and apparently cant read and or google, and my friend and most people in general is not ******, can read and or google
Michael Arck sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 393	Posted - 2013.07.25 00:46:00 - [59] - Quote Oh shut up. The people who started in June faced the same uphilll battle as the ones who started a month before them and so on. This isn't for weak. You either harden up, place your shots, stop running into open fields, learn when to let go of a one on one gun battle and strategize better or you will be canon fodder for the strong. All that will be left is a deteriorating dropsuit fit and little wet circles in the sand where you tears has fallen TL:DR...HTFU...now!!!
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 824	Posted - 2013.07.25 00:46:00 - [60] - Quote shin suki wrote: Apparently, all the players who joined before June of this year got to become intimately familiar with the game and it's mechanics, build up SP, and then respec any wasted SP however they saw fit. Are you kidding me? So beside having months head start in sp, these players needed more advantages and you allowed them to redistribute sp AFTER they knew what they were doing??? In what frame of mind must you be for this to be acceptable? Honestly CCP, how badly do you hate new players? First off we can be just about OHKO but all the protobears, we are massively outclassed, not skill wise, but by insurmountable skill and isk advantages, and now this? A new player has no idea what he is doing with sp, but for all you new players before June you got free do-overs.... the rest of us are just out of luck I guess. Email me when you figure out why your game is dying. Deal with it. I made this character after June with no real knowledge of post Uprising Armour Tanking nor the mechanics behind amarrian weaponry.... I do alright, I deal with proto's as they come, and generally continue the grind to get SP. I have 4million so far and that's more than enough to be competitive. As CCP would say HTFU.... I did so can you.



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