My Battle cruiser lost a high slot and that isn't what I wanted. They removed deep space probes and changed how the scanner bonuses work. On top of that they added a mini game that makes it difficult to do what I did before and I don't make as much ISK. I trained shield because armor was underpowered and they added honey combing and now I want to armor tank. Ice belts can now be depleted and I have to wait four hours for a new one! Things have changed and I want my SP back. They added salvage drones and I trained a salvager module, no fair.

Wait a minute this isn't EVE, you mean I have to live with the choices I made no matter how well planned or poorly they were made? Persistent universe means nothing ever changes no matter what the problems are. We were lied to when they released the game because once it is released it cannot be changed. Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

Don't worry I lost my aircraft carrier it was nerfed aswell along with my ar with its doomsday device on the side

There was a Super Carrier (10 Billion isk ship) nerf in Eve that made quite a few Super Capital Pilots 'quit' as well.

Also in Eve we do have Doomsday Devices which was also nerfed to hell. Before they could wipe out an entire fleet record kill shot being 700 starships in one go. Now they're like toned down macross cannons, blapping capital ships in a big beam of death.

Until a real baseline of balance is established and the game's content is filled out I really think that respects should be allowed with each patch or at least a refund of the skills that a directly impacted by a balance change until we reach that baseline. I believe this would allow CCP to actually have more freedom to perform balance adjustments in a meaningful way.

The only issue is that the respect system really has to be automated (and that would mean coding), so that it doesn't eat up a HUGE chunk of resources in dealing with the respects by hand.

I know a lot of people want to point their fingers at Cal Logis and go "HA HA", but quite frankly there is no reason to punish players for using the resources given to them to the best of their ability. It's so important that we move forward together as a community to improve this game.

For me that means Devs communicating to the community changes that they plan BEFORE they are locked in and giving those optional respecs (character or skill specific) to allow both the developers and the community the freedom to test and find the game balance that we are all looking for.

QFT and Logic

Its honestly quite the opposite.

How long was the flaylock out before people started calling it OP? Almost two months?

And even after it was finally found to be OP, a lot of people still wouldn't spec into it, knowing the SP would be wasted come 1.3 after CCP drops the nerf hammer 9000 on it.

Reallocations have nothing to do with a meaningful baseline and in fact, FOTM chasing would technically be beneficial to rebalancing everything.

If you could respec at any time... how many people you think we'd see using cal logis and flaylocks? Probably close to everyone. This would help CCP see exactly which items needed rebalancing.

The reason they can't rebalance quickly is two-fold.

First this system inhibits quick specialization into weapons... so for most people it takes 2-3 weeks just to get the prototype variant and a couple points of proficiency, this throws off metrics already. They also have to divert SP away from their already planned path of progession, causing certain people who would use a weapon to not use it, as they don't have the spare SP for it.

Next, there is a 2 month lag time before CCP can even implement a fix to anything. First they have to recognize it, and then they have to implement it two patches from now (as they are now always content locked on the current patch).

Imagine how many scouts there would be in this game if you could have respecs? Probably a lot fewer, the fact that they have to 'live with their choices' when the scout they are using now is not the scout they skilled into in 1.1 is causing bias in the wrong way, making it look like there are more scouts than there should be and causing ccp to think there isn't as much of a problem with scouts as there actually is.

How about tankers? Could you imagine how many fewer tankers there would be right now if they could spec out of tanks? No they are forced to 'live with their decision' even though tanks are receiving a huge nerf 'in a future update'. Should they have seen the armor rep nerf coming like cal logis and chosen accordingly?

The only way CCP can get any sort of meaningful data is from QQers on the forums. And we all can see how well thats working out .

So no.. I don't see how refusing respecs hurts anything. Maybe you can explain a little better how refusing respecs establishes a better baseline? All it really does is force people like OZAROW to deal with be screwed over by unnecessarily implemented mechanics cause he 'made a choice and has to live with it'.

Right now there is only one way of specing out of your current choices... and that's quitting the game. Seems bad for business to me?

My Battle cruiser lost a high slot and that isn't what I wanted. They removed deep space probes and changed how the scanner bonuses work. On top of that they added a mini game that makes it difficult to do what I did before and I don't make as much ISK. I trained shield because armor was underpowered and they added honey combing and now I want to armor tank. Ice belts can now be depleted and I have to wait four hours for a new one! Things have changed and I want my SP back. They added salvage drones and I trained a salvager module, no fair.

Wait a minute this isn't EVE, you mean I have to live with the choices I made no matter how well planned or poorly they were made? Persistent universe means nothing ever changes no matter what the problems are. We were lied to when they released the game because once it is released it cannot be changed. Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

I would only agree to another respect once the entire baseline is established, just doing it every patch will create the environment of 'entitlement' which I am trying to strictly avoid. Thus until we get all racial suits and vehicles and weapons in a respect per patch can lead to some very harmful behavior.

They should just leave the game broken and wanting. How dare they try to give us what we want even if we are a minority of players, breaks the game, fixes the game, adds content or just makes it better. We should have never progressed past the first beta because it was perfect, so much better than what we have now. Good grief, we want static games where everything is perfect and nothing is changed. Come on CCP get your act together and give us a shoot her that never changes and all weapons are equally equal.

Get rid of any innovative ideas and give us more of the same thing we have been playing for years. Take my money and re-skin everything! I don't like or want change because it scares me and doesn't allow me to press the win button whenever I want.

A poor game, with a dwindling player base on a dying platform.

Whatever brings in the green will win the day.

Why don't you just wait until the next build? None of this is etched in stone and we'll all probably get a respec then.

I would only agree to another respect once the entire baseline is established, just doing it every patch will create the environment of 'entitlement' which I am trying to strictly avoid. Thus until we get all racial suits and vehicles and weapons in a respect per patch can lead to some very harmful behavior.

wait but thats what they need to be like if i spent that much time my ship better be like 50 muther focking deathstars

If they chopped and changed swathes of items in EVE like they do in Dust you can bet your ass there would be some Burn Jita type antics going on. The respec post Uprising was essential in order not to alienate players who had spent a long time improving the game in beta.

At the very least there need to be skill-branch respecs when they modify several things at once (the upcoming 1.3 might indeed be justification for it).

I don't think the CalLogi balancing on its own warrants a respec, or even refund for the Cal Logi skills. But if they keep moving the goalposts without giving anything back people will leave.

I hope we don't and with time all of the problems will be fixed, we need to calm down and let them work. I am sure that if they could bring us a perfect game in one week they would. For the most part all of our problems have been addressed and either fixed or are being fixed. They listen and they to do want we want but they shouldn't give up their vision because a few players aren't happy.

With DUST so far majority of AV are swarms because they ;lock fast, missiles invisible and go around corners and fire and forget and very easy to use unlike the FG which requires aim

Your full of ****

Take vehicle pilots

We didnt skill into the flavour of the month weapons - we picked a path and went down it and for now 5 builds straight we have been nerfed

Where as Cal logi suits are easily flavour of the month and notice how everyone specced into them because lolassault when logi is clearly superior so they get balanced and the crutches taken away and now they want a respec and the same will happen when flaylocks get nerfed and it happened with the tac before that

FOTM ppl want a respec everytime the crutch is taken away or balanced

With EVE players dont generally skill into an Iwin button because it takes time and might be in an area they dont want to go into but also most of the Iwin buttons for whatever part of the game existed time ago and CCP now have been looking at balancing alot lately, mostly ship balancing so one isnt better than the other for the same things like PVP, they want ppl to use different weapons

With DUST so far majority of AV are swarms because they ;lock fast, missiles invisible and go around corners and fire and forget and very easy to use unlike the FG which requires aim

Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

Sorry but New Eden may not be for you.

My Battle cruiser lost a high slot and that isn't what I wanted. They removed deep space probes and changed how the scanner bonuses work. On top of that they added a mini game that makes it difficult to do what I did before and I don't make as much ISK. I trained shield because armor was underpowered and they added honey combing and now I want to armor tank. Ice belts can now be depleted and I have to wait four hours for a new one! Things have changed and I want my SP back. They added salvage drones and I trained a salvager module, no fair.

Wait a minute this isn't EVE, you mean I have to live with the choices I made no matter how well planned or poorly they were made? Persistent universe means nothing ever changes no matter what the problems are. We were lied to when they released the game because once it is released it cannot be changed. Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

wrong....in fps...especially big name ones like bf3 or cod....they nerf everything to hell and leave one or two guns alone....you just spent 60$ only do be forced to run around with a stupid smg or ar...or that quickscoping trash.

My Battle cruiser lost a high slot and that isn't what I wanted. They removed deep space probes and changed how the scanner bonuses work. On top of that they added a mini game that makes it difficult to do what I did before and I don't make as much ISK. I trained shield because armor was underpowered and they added honey combing and now I want to armor tank. Ice belts can now be depleted and I have to wait four hours for a new one! Things have changed and I want my SP back. They added salvage drones and I trained a salvager module, no fair.

Wait a minute this isn't EVE, you mean I have to live with the choices I made no matter how well planned or poorly they were made? Persistent universe means nothing ever changes no matter what the problems are. We were lied to when they released the game because once it is released it cannot be changed. Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

Eve is a full game noob not only that you don't have to grind noob. Also Dust is not Eve noob have a nice day dumb ass.

Eve is in the title and in the same universe. Thanks for you input and showing us how post correctly.

Tiericide is "chopping and changing" swathes of items in EVE.

Community reaction is overall positive, if not downright ecstatic as ships and modules that haven't seen use in years become useful again.

No one got respecs, even when they changed the destroyer and battlecruiser skills to be racial specific (despite it being a controversial move with more than a few respec whiners).


But as IWS mentioned: DUST isn't even basic feature complete. There's no option for Caldari Heavies or Scouts. No Amarr or Minmatar vehicles or even MCCs. DUST is a game that should have stayed in beta for at least another year (it's not like there isn't a 5/14 every year - I'd even argue it'd have been more 'symbolic' to release in May 2014).

A respec when the game becomes basic feature complete is fair. But that's really it IMO.

We are not connected to eve totally different games. They are just made by the same company, the comparisons end their. Keep telling yourself that dust is in the same universe lmao.

Cant belive peope are really that stupid lol.

All your post managed to do was remind me how painfully empty and boring this game is right now, along with how primative and limitted our skill tree is.

:(

This thread is pathetic.

Back in February of this year we as a closed group of beta testers were offered the;

'Last respec' I.e this is going to be it now guys, NO MORE RESPECS After today. Fine.

So we thought long and hard about what race, gun and equipment we were going to get into.

And all was well until the greedy people who wanted all of the AUR(And SP) they have used back on the 'release date' (5/14) which then called for another respec (Barring in mind this was in the good nature of CCP, and people exploited it).

And now the first true nerf hammer has come down the tears flow. And a grand portion of these people were told ' NO MORE REPECS' And if you make a decision thats it. You have to now respect your decision (I know this is hard for the 14 year olds to wrap their tiny brains around).

So you people coming here because your suits 'useless' or IDONT WANTCALDARIITSNOT BESTANYMORE are idiots, whom have a terrible, terrible corp who never told them about the respecless enviroment or knew the consequences and still went through with their actions.

The latter category deserve it. Why should they be allowed to 'pad' their KDR when the suit is FOTM, but then cry and change suit when its not.

Which brings me to my tears. Why should i have to put up with idiots who believe the FOTM should exist for one. And then they moan about it being dealt with only to 'respec' back into the new FOTM.

Sorry guys, its my turn to shine. Leave like a little girl if i care. But if you have any sense of honour then you would come play against me. And then i can wipe you from the face of New Eden. (until my suits nerfed ofc ; ) )

Show me logic that supports a valid reason to have SP refunded. I am going to prove you wrong so be ready. Keeping players isn't a logical reason because the game has problems that SP reallocating can't fix.

Think o.0, problem is ccp keep changing stuff. You skill into something, then they change it and the karakter is not what you build anymore. So how you gonna prove that FACT is wrong

You ccp lovers need to get the brown of your nose, cus you players are the once ruining this game. Choices have been made , and they where bad choices.
Like playing on a pitch black map withouth ir vision.
I hope in the future ccp listens to the normal players to.

My Battle cruiser lost a high slot and that isn't what I wanted. They removed deep space probes and changed how the scanner bonuses work. On top of that they added a mini game that makes it difficult to do what I did before and I don't make as much ISK. I trained shield because armor was underpowered and they added honey combing and now I want to armor tank. Ice belts can now be depleted and I have to wait four hours for a new one! Things have changed and I want my SP back. They added salvage drones and I trained a salvager module, no fair.

Wait a minute this isn't EVE, you mean I have to live with the choices I made no matter how well planned or poorly they were made? Persistent universe means nothing ever changes no matter what the problems are. We were lied to when they released the game because once it is released it cannot be changed. Ask any FPS, they know all the stats are perminant and perfect from the start.

Oh just stop complaining. You knew that new content would be added, but you spent all of your SP and jumped the gun.. It is your own fault, deal with it -_-

Yeah because the top 5% will continue to pay the bills.

Yeah cus withouth real money you noobcakes cant save up isk for PC.
Honestly fck the 5% they dont own the game, withouth real money you guys wont run proto all the time.

We'll need a respec when all the basic items are available, all the vehicles, all the weapons, all the suits and modules, until then there is no point in constantly doing a respec.

Here goes. Yes having a respec would help to identify op items. However, respecs would also allow mercs to totally skip the standard and advance, not allowing them to be used creates bad data.

Reallocation would allow more players to spec into op weapons and out of normal or under powered weapons making them feel even more imbalanced. The UP weapons would be buffed and the op weapons nerfed, causing more calls foe respec and more rage.

Drop ships and HAVs were overpowered when compared to AV and were nerfed into a black hole because we all cried they were op and we got them nerfed. Now the AV is too powerful and HAVs and dropships are pretty much a joke.

Spending resources on providing repecs are detrimental to the team designing the game because they have even fewer work hours to work on the game and when people don't get one for whatever reason they get mad.

Respecs beget more respecs because they are expected to be provided because they did before and why not now or they make someone who missed it for whatever reason even more mad.

Some people don't read the forums or come her to complain so it would be an hour or so wasted reinvesting SP instead of playing. I don't get much game time because of work and the last thing I want to do is read for an hour just to play.

EvE is based on persistence and yes changing the stats of items is the opposite of persistence but if the gear is OP then it needs to be pulled back. No respecs also discourages specing into OP gear because they know it will be nerfed - sometimes heavily - and don't want to waste SP on an item that will be less powerful.

Lastly, people do dump SP into OP gear because it is OP and we shouldn't reward people that do if for the lolz and tears it creates. The people who do this are basically cheating within the rules. They know it and we know.

You keep losing me when you compare this game to Eve.

Eve is a different game with very different players. You guys that play both are few and far between. I never see any of you in game.

Are you here as ambassadors of Eve to ensure that nothing leaks over into Eve that could change it?

Start a character and go through the Academy. Watch these players. Try to strike up a conversation with them. Engage them about the choices they've made with their SP. When you see how daunting of a task they have ahead of them with even perfect allocation of SP I think you'd change your tune.

We brought in a player with 15 million SP that is spec'd into everything. He might as well have 1.5 mil SP if specialized. He is close to quitting. His mistake, not being in a corp that could have helped him with his choices. Are we so hard up for New Eden misery that we just pat these players on the back and watch them leave the game?

Are you guys so hard up that you'd rather watch throngs of veteran players leave because they are bored and would like a different path for their character?

If you don't want to give people a chance to love this game again then I think you need to just stop posting.

This game is on life support. We have people that loved this game that just simply stopped signing on. They didn't rage quit. They just started playing other stuff. I'll GUARANTEE you those players would log in for a respec.

I just can't see the potential downsides of FOTM outweighing the huge benefit of increasing the number of players.

i can run proto all the time... and i dont spend monies ... PC kinda pays for its self... i kinda see my self as pretty normal...

You stil not proven my logic is wrong


The changes are not enough to be breaking or cause damage to the intended role. I you built a suit using OP items then you know you did and it is going to hurt. If you built a fitting that was in the role provided by the suit then your game will not change much or at all as far as fittings are concerned. The characters are what you built unless you use broken OP gear.

It is a fact that CCP changes things when they want and how they want but it is also a fact that they fix broken items and stay within the role the suit was designed to do. I don't have to prove that fact wrong because it already is or at most only half correct. Next.

Planets and other objects have the same name and refer to the same place.
I can see your character while playing EVE.
I can talk to you.
I can email you.
You can join my corporation.
I can join your corporation.
The battle in FW on the planet affects the control of the system.
I can generate battles by playing EVE.
I can shoot you from EVE.
You can see the eve pilots from the ground.
I can see your battle on the planet.
You can request support from me.
I have the ability to grant or deny support for you.
The PC DUST side gives bonuses to the EVE side.
The player count includes both sets of players.
Things happen in real time using the same time frames.
Same servers, universe, developer, type of game, theme, races, open-endedness, skill system, money, and same lore. Finally, the developers of the game says that they're connected in a few ways.

There may be a few more I can't remember or don't know so chew on those troll. Because cant belive peope are really that stupid lol. If those things are not true the you are correct, there may be bugs and a low player count but that doesn't make those thing I listed not true. Thanks again for the enlightening post. By the way, I have been playing this game from the beginning, I am not a noob.

This thread is pathetic.

Back in February of this year we as a closed group of beta testers were offered the;

'Last respec' I.e this is going to be it now guys, NO MORE RESPECS After today. Fine.

There was a Super Carrier (10 Billion isk ship) nerf in Eve that made quite a few Super Capital Pilots 'quit' as well.

Also in Eve we do have Doomsday Devices which was also nerfed to hell. Before they could wipe out an entire fleet record kill shot being 700 starships in one go. Now they're like toned down macross cannons, blapping capital ships in a big beam of death.

I would only agree to another respect once the entire baseline is established, just doing it every patch will create the environment of 'entitlement' which I am trying to strictly avoid. Thus until we get all racial suits and vehicles and weapons in a respect per patch can lead to some very harmful behavior.

Why do you keep prancing about as if you have powers you don't. Watch out, disagree with IWS and he will fire you! Tell me, is that what happened to the executive producer? Did you fire him too?

They should just leave the game broken and wanting. How dare they try to give us what we want even if we are a minority of players, breaks the game, fixes the game, adds content or just makes it better. We should have never progressed past the first beta because it was perfect, so much better than what we have now. Good grief, we want static games where everything is perfect and nothing is changed. Come on CCP get your act together and give us a shooter that never changes and all weapons are equally equal.

Get rid of any innovative ideas and give us more of the same thing we have been playing for years. Take my money and re-skin everything! I don't like or want change because it scares me and doesn't allow me to press the win button whenever I want.

Here goes. Yes having a respec would help to identify op items. However, respecs would also allow mercs to totally skip the standard and advance, not allowing them to be used creates bad data.

Reallocation would allow more players to spec into op weapons and out of normal or under powered weapons making them feel even more imbalanced. The UP weapons would be buffed and the op weapons nerfed, causing more calls foe respec and more rage.

Drop ships and HAVs were overpowered when compared to AV and were nerfed into a black hole because we all cried they were op and we got them nerfed. Now the AV is too powerful and HAVs and dropships are pretty much a joke.

Spending resources on providing repecs are detrimental to the team designing the game because they have even fewer work hours to work on the game and when people don't get one for whatever reason they get mad.

Respecs beget more respecs because they are expected to be provided because they did before and why not now or they make someone who missed it for whatever reason even more mad.

Some people don't read the forums or come her to complain so it would be an hour or so wasted reinvesting SP instead of playing. I don't get much game time because of work and the last thing I want to do is read for an hour just to play.

EvE is based on persistence and yes changing the stats of items is the opposite of persistence but if the gear is OP then it needs to be pulled back. No respecs also discourages specing into OP gear because they know it will be nerfed - sometimes heavily - and don't want to waste SP on an item that will be less powerful.

Lastly, people do dump SP into OP gear because it is OP and we shouldn't reward people that do if for the lolz and tears it creates. The people who do this are basically cheating within the rules. They know it and we know.

You ccp lovers need to get the brown of your nose, cus you players are the once ruining this game. Choices have been made , and they where bad choices.
Like playing on a pitch black map withouth ir vision.
I hope in the future ccp listens to the normal players to.

This is why we need to go back into beta. This game is not ready for full release.

If it helps people with the whole 'persistence' bullshit. We should go back into beta, offer unlimited respecs. Get all this fotm bullshit out of the way. Establish a meaningful baseline (the one we have now is clearly not). Then go back into release with no respecs.

As it stands now, persistence is bullshit since the gear you buy today is not the gear you'll have tomorrow.

"living with your choices" is irrelevant as you can't make meaningful choices with the constant rebalancing of gear.

I completely agree with your points there, but this game is nowhere near ready for it.

Agreed 100%, +1 cookiez.

Maybe you know something i don't but we're what.. About 8 months away from that?

Long time to sit on nerfed gear, not enjoying the game.

See the smart developer would code the respec option in game. That way your not allocating resources or man power from game designs. Like i said CCP can stay the course of no respecs cuz it's worked so well so far lol.

Your statements are half truths at best. I don't have to prove you wrong because you did it for me in your post. The suit viability hasn't changed, they will be able perform their role but they will lose the ability to be what the other suits were intended to be.

There was a Super Carrier (10 Billion isk ship) nerf in Eve that made quite a few Super Capital Pilots 'quit' as well.

Also in Eve we do have Doomsday Devices which was also nerfed to hell. Before they could wipe out an entire fleet record kill shot being 700 starships in one go. Now they're like toned down macross cannons, blapping capital ships in a big beam of death.

It's actually the players that cry out for bad ideas, then cry some more when their bad ideas aren't given to them.


The people you are referring to are the people that understand that this game is different and needs to be completed differently.

Not like every other FPS.

Maybe you know something i don't but we're what.. About 8 months away from that?

Long time to sit on nerfed gear, not enjoying the game.

But its enough time to skill into new gear.

Im not only talking suit but gues you cant read english very well.

But its enough time to skill into new gear.

Another mad player that gives a bad idea...

I understand this game all to well, and there are lots that do to.
Apearantly a big chunk of that has no voice, cus they dont pay for a free game.