I recommend the use of the 'drive by'. It is a slightly higher tier tactic, as it requires turret handlers that can effectively track and engage targets from a moving platform

HAV drivers need to learn to make tactics to counter the tactics AV players, such as myself, use. Complaining that they need more Armor and Shields will do nothing but make their suffering last longer on the battlefield, as any reasonable amount of health increase will be useless without effective tactics. So who better to teach them how to survive AV than a dedicated AV player. I decided to put this in General discussion rather than rookie training grounds, because I feel that many of the experienced people who hang around general discussions would benefit from reading this. I also feel that many people calling for a nerf to AV are not properly using tactics to counter our tactics. Let's begin.

Some general tips:

• Forge gunners should always be your primary target
• Secondary targets are Swarm players
• If a player runs at you it means they either have AV grenades or Remote explosives. Be weary of these suicide bombers
• Destroy turrets even if they are not in enemy control. Don't take the risk
• Destroy Supply depots to keep enemy infantry from switching to and replenishing their AV
• When calling in an HAV do it as far away from the action as possible and if possible behind a building or behind a hill
• Take out dropships before they can get on top of buildings. If they can do that, they can put a forge gunner up there. It will be almost impossible to dislodge them, as many tank turrets can not aim up there.
• Be on the look out for Remote explosive markers on the ground and the annoying sound that vehicle mines make. Too many HAV's die to this.
• Use of cover is FUNDAMENTAL!

Experienced ground personnel know to use the terrain as cover. Many HAV drivers need to learn this lesson.
I say this because I see many HAV's get shot at by Swarms and just take it. They get destroyed because they fail to learn the basic fundamentals of urban fighting, one of the first things to grasp is, how to use your surroundings as improvised defensive positions. Cover. The basic concept is that you use your surrounding environment to keep safe from attacks.

Now the tactics:
A basic maneuver is to move parallel to a building' corner, peek around and make observations. One should not keep in the same position for too long and if spotted one should move as quickly as possible to avoid from having the enemy flank you from the sides or behind. It is also important to note that the more people that are killed by you, the more become aware of your position. Though, this is a maneuver used mostly for long range attacks.

For CQC offensive maneuvers, I recommend the use of the 'drive by'. It is a slightly higher tier tactic, as it requires turret handlers that can effectively track and engage targets from a moving platform. As such, it is a tactic that can really only be mastered by a dedicated tank crew. Though, I digress, it is very effective when executed flawlessly. It is best used to harass and deny the enemy use of gates, entrances and narrow passages such as bridges.. By making strafing runs parallel to the entrance, you can quickly unload a large amount of suppressing fire into the entrance, while not allowing forge gunners or Swarm players enough time to charge or track your HAV. HAV's that make use of this maneuver should be fast, though slow HAV's can make use of this tactic, they should have high shields/armor. High fire rate turrets also compliment your build by giving the ability to tag more targets. After making a strafing run, you should make a U turn and double back at a longer range, as by then any forge gunners will have charged their guns and any players with AV grenades will be hiding behind any cover near the entrance, waiting for you to come past again.

When assaulting through a city or entrance, always stick behind your infantry. Never go in front. They keep people from being able to run up and throw AV grenades at you, as well as keep forge gunners and swarm players distracted. If you do not see a good 5+ assault team pushing ahead into a city, do not go at it alone. You will be surrounded by people with AV grenades and will die faster then you can get out of the vehicle. Just don't do it.

I will add more tactics to this as I ponder effective counters to the tactics I use against HAV's...

Real problems garbage tank fittings.
CCPs balanced them according to the best tank fit against the best AV damage.
If i told most tankers that if theyre putting more than 1 plate or extender on it theyre doing it wrong, theyd say im crazy. Then I'd laugh @ them and slam em w/ proto FG.

You forget one thing: proto AV can solo any tanker, regardless of the tanker's skill. By the time we figure out what's happening, we're dead. There's nothing we can do about hidden forge gunners and invisible swarms.

Also, you are dedicated AV. You are not a dedicated tanker. Please don't tell us what to do, because we know what to do. It's just this broken balance that causes us to lose.

tbh you sound like you don't know what you're talking about and you're just spewing words that you hope make you sound smart...

You are very wrong on this account.

Proto AV weapons are powerful, yes. Though, I see many HAV's make silly mistakes that I feel are too easily corrected. Such as spawning vehicles in the middle of a city. Shooting as snipers instead of forge gunners. Thinking that the most effective tactic is to stand in the middle of the field motion less or doing 360's. I see so many tankers make these mistakes. I just think to myself "how could they think this would occur". Worst part is that they come to complain here on the forums...

The tactic's I explain here are things that I know from observation and studying good HAV drivers. Things I know that frustrate us AV players. Stuff that makes it hard for us to pull fast kills on you guys.

I am just trying to help,

The real problem is that we got proto AV against standard HAVs. Give us proto HAVs, then we'll see who's laughing as I stroll casually towards your proto FG and personally slaughter you with a small blaster turret.

Not sure if troll.

TBH I miss tanks.
They were scary once. It took coordination and effort to bring down the beefiest ones.
Now? Its all LOLtanks for any moron with protoswarms or AV nades.

I am not a dedicated AV player. That role doesn't actually exist. If you have a million SP in forge or swarms and nades you're set to harass or kill just about the meanest tankers all by your clever self.

I kill tanks all the bloody time. I shouldn't. I should need more AV or rail tanks.

So, while I guess you are trying to he helpful (and I like that) the problem is not one of tactics but one of balance.

That said, where the proto tanks at??? If pro tanks are beast in contrast to pro AV ill shut up. But I doubt they will get anything but a one module and some CPU. :/
Ill cross my fingers the pilot suit is useful.

Real problems garbage tank fittings.
CCPs balanced them according to the best tank fit against the best AV damage.
If i told most tankers that if theyre putting more than 1 plate or extender on it theyre doing it wrong, theyd say im crazy. Then I'd laugh @ them and slam em w/ proto FG.

HAV drivers need to learn to make tactics to counter the tactics AV players, such as myself, use. Complaining that they need more Armor and Shields will do nothing but make their suffering last longer on the battlefield, as any reasonable amount of health increase will be useless without effective tactics. So who better to teach them how to survive AV than a dedicated AV player. I decided to put this in General discussion rather than rookie training grounds, because I feel that many of the experienced people who hang around general discussions would benefit from reading this. I also feel that many people calling for a nerf to AV are not properly using tactics to counter our tactics. Let's begin.

Some general tips:

• Forge gunners should always be your primary target
• Secondary targets are Swarm players
• If a player runs at you it means they either have AV grenades or Remote explosives. Be weary of these suicide bombers
• Destroy turrets even if they are not in enemy control. Don't take the risk
• Destroy Supply depots to keep enemy infantry from switching to and replenishing their AV
• When calling in an HAV do it as far away from the action as possible and if possible behind a building or behind a hill
• Take out dropships before they can get on top of buildings. If they can do that, they can put a forge gunner up there. It will be almost impossible to dislodge them, as many tank turrets can not aim up there.
• Be on the look out for Remote explosive markers on the ground and the annoying sound that vehicle mines make. Too many HAV's die to this.
• Use of cover is FUNDAMENTAL!

Experienced ground personnel know to use the terrain as cover. Many HAV drivers need to learn this lesson.
I say this because I see many HAV's get shot at by Swarms and just take it. They get destroyed because they fail to learn the basic fundamentals of urban fighting, one of the first things to grasp is, how to use your surroundings as improvised defensive positions. Cover. The basic concept is that you use your surrounding environment to keep safe from attacks.

Now the tactics:
A basic maneuver is to move parallel to a building' corner, peek around and make observations. One should not keep in the same position for too long and if spotted one should move as quickly as possible to avoid from having the enemy flank you from the sides or behind. It is also important to note that the more people that are killed by you, the more become aware of your position. Though, this is a maneuver used mostly for long range attacks.

For CQC offensive maneuvers, I recommend the use of the 'drive by'. It is a slightly higher tier tactic, as it requires turret handlers that can effectively track and engage targets from a moving platform. As such, it is a tactic that can really only be mastered by a dedicated tank crew. Though, I digress, it is very effective when executed flawlessly. It is best used to harass and deny the enemy use of gates, entrances and narrow passages such as bridges.. By making strafing runs parallel to the entrance, you can quickly unload a large amount of suppressing fire into the entrance, while not allowing forge gunners or Swarm players enough time to charge or track your HAV. HAV's that make use of this maneuver should be fast, though slow HAV's can make use of this tactic, they should have high shields/armor. High fire rate turrets also compliment your build by giving the ability to tag more targets. After making a strafing run, you should make a U turn and double back at a longer range, as by then any forge gunners will have charged their guns and any players with AV grenades will be hiding behind any cover near the entrance, waiting for you to come past again.

When assaulting through a city or entrance, always stick behind your infantry. Never go in front. They keep people from being able to run up and throw AV grenades at you, as well as keep forge gunners and swarm players distracted. If you do not see a good 5+ assault team pushing ahead into a city, do not go at it alone. You will be surrounded by people with AV grenades and will die faster then you can get out of the vehicle. Just don't do it.

I will add more tactics to this as I ponder effective counters to the tactics I use against HAV's...

So who better to teach them how to survive AV than a dedicated AV player.

Then youre not a real tanker. Properly fitted Maddys take 10 shots in a row from ishukone assault FGs, but my guess at the most you can take 6 right? Stop asking for a crutch because you don't know how to fit tanks. Not that proto tanks will be any better, likely the marauders will simply be brought back, and they were BARELY better than STD tanks while costing an insane amount of isk. Learn to fit & use a STD tank or you have no future in tanking, believe me.

And most of the advise in the OP is standard use of HAV's, I'm sorry but its nothing new to anyone who has been running HAV's for any amount of time.

You say that and yet, I see 80% of the tanks I destroy doing very obvious things wrong. The ones I struggle to destroy are usually doing one of the above mentioned tactics and doing it awesomely.

I just see HAV's standing in very bad places doing really stupid stuff, ALL THE TIME!

But you don't drive tanks, so why are you suggesting things?

Then youre not a real tanker. Properly fitted Maddys take 10 shots in a row from ishukone assault FGs, but my guess at the most you can take 6 right? Stop asking for a crutch because you don't know how to fit tanks. Not that proto tanks will be any better, likely the marauders will simply be brought back, and they were BARELY better than STD tanks while costing an insane amount of isk. Learn to fit & use a STD tank or you have no future in tanking, believe me.

So many things wrong with your post. First of all, I have tanked ever since I started and I endured a couple SP resets, which would place me about a year ago.

Second, I run Gunnlogis only, as I see no point in thinning out my SP over both armor and shield.

Third, you're using FGs against armor. FGs are bonused against shield. I hope your AV brain can comprehend this. I have gone down in four proto assault forge gun shots. That means 6 seconds total to shoot an entire FG clip at a huge and slow moving target.

Fourth, properly fitted Maddys take so many FG shots because not only are they not bonused against armor, but armor reps can negate half of your damage, at least. It's a different story for them with proto swarms and AV grenades though.

Fifth, I'm not asking for a crutch. I know how to fit my tanks. Shields need to be buffed.

Sixth, well now I'm just ******* irritated by the ignorance of your kind. Every ******* AVer wants to solo a tank. Then Dust is the wrong ******* game for you. Stop bitching and crying "tanks are OP". You, however, are the worst piece of **** I have ever seen. If I ever see you in game, I will make sure I ******* run you over with my Charybdis over and over. Because I will not tolerate people like you.

GTFO, this is not the game for you.

You forget one thing: proto AV can solo any tanker, regardless of the tanker's skill. By the time we figure out what's happening, we're dead. There's nothing we can do about hidden forge gunners and invisible swarms.

Also, you are dedicated AV. You are not a dedicated tanker. Please don't tell us what to do, because we know what to do. It's just this broken balance that causes us to lose.

Edit: your tips are nothing new. We destroy turrets whenever possible because, hey, free WPs. We know to call them in safe areas (also, WTF has that got to do with AV vs HAVs). We kill dropships for the same reason as turrets. I didn't bother reading the tactics because they are probably nothing new, I will not have you tell us what to do, and I'm ******* tired right now to read your essay.

Second edit: ok, I glanced through your tactics. Again, nothing new. And again, there's nothing in regards with dealing with forge gun snipers and invisible swarms. Those are unbeatable and you can only hope you can get out of sight before they pop you.

No sh*t i FG are weak to armor, thats the reason i was using it as an example you r3tard. And I've always said shield reppers need to be buffed to the point of armor reppers. You're also definitely not a real tanker since youre using gunnlogis, and your pathetic LLAV is gonna be nerfed soon. And since your asking for proto tanks damn right your asking for a crutch. I have never said tanks are OP, the problem is garbage tankers are asking for OP tanks, which will just make tanks eventually get nerfed even harder. Try me b*tch i was tanking before you even started, and i quit at the beginning of this build because at first they were nerfed hard, but then CCP buffed them, so now I've got 84 officer FGs w/ dual complex damage mods, Proto AV nades and proto nanohives with your name on them.

U know wats funny i've never seen a post tht says for AV to adapt always tanks. Why don't u guys have to. O thts right cause u keep getting BUFFS.

GG AV try i dunno getting gud. and stop telling tanks to adapt just cause u get buffed or tanks gets nerfed.

You know what POTHEAD? If you think you know how to fit tanks better than me, I ******* dare you to a 1v1 in tanks.