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![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1951
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Noticed alot of people are saying that the Flaylock has too large of a radius.
NO.
This damned thing has a splash radius smaller than ANY THER WEAPON.
The issue is the damage dealt. Theyre not aiming three meters away from you, theyre aiming AT YOU or AT YOUR FEET. This means that even with a radius of 1.5m they can still hit and deal damage.
Why do I say damage? Because they do more splash damage than ANY SEMI AUTO WEAPON IN THE GAME. That includes Large Missile Turrets and all Mass Driver variants. Charge times, projectile arches, etc were all put in place to balance these powerful weapons. The entire premise of why missiles now suck is because they do **** for splash damage (80? Seriously?)
Think about this... A Plasma Cannon has a splash radius of 3.5, larger than a Flaylock, but its strength is inits direct damage, not the splash.
Everyone keeps saying 'nerf the radius and RoF' but youre not looking at the big issue at hand. This is a close range weapon THAT CAN DOWN DROPSHIPS. I seriously doubt radius is going to stopa weapon that deals 650+ damage per magazine. CCP is going to nerf the radius because thats the feedback theyve gotten when its not the real issue. Do the research, compare to similar weapons and THEN propose changes.
CCP: This is not feedback, this is a corrective/educational statement. |
![Delta 749 Delta 749](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1111
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Honestly they should not even have the splash damage, keep the high direct damage though |
![KingBlade82 KingBlade82](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
81
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Flaylock is damage, Mass Driver is Splash Radius, and LAV is because people r dipshits (the drivers) lol |
![Shouper of BHD Shouper of BHD](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
199
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Noticed alot of people are saying that the Flaylock has too large of a radius.
NO.
This damned thing has a splash radius smaller than ANY THER WEAPON.
The issue is the damage dealt. Theyre not aiming three meters away from you, theyre aiming AT YOU or AT YOUR FEET. This means that even with a radius of 1.5m they can still hit and deal damage.
Why do I say damage? Because they do more splash damage than ANY SEMI AUTO WEAPON IN THE GAME. That includes Large Missile Turrets and all Mass Driver variants. Charge times, projectile arches, etc were all put in place to balance these powerful weapons. The entire premise of why missiles now suck is because they do **** for splash damage (80? Seriously?)
Think about this... A Plasma Cannon has a splash radius of 3.5, larger than a Flaylock, but its strength is inits direct damage, not the splash.
Everyone keeps saying 'nerf the radius and RoF' but youre not looking at the big issue at hand. This is a close range weapon THAT CAN DOWN DROPSHIPS. I seriously doubt radius is going to stopa weapon that deals 650+ damage per magazine. CCP is going to nerf the radius because thats the feedback theyve gotten when its not the real issue. Do the research, compare to similar weapons and THEN propose changes.
CCP: This is not feedback, this is a corrective/educational statement.
the complaint was from the skill book +5% BR which should be a +3%, as a missile turret user from an ADS stand point BR is the way to go (I think a hammer should be dropped but not some sledge hammer where we have to buff it after), a >small< reduction to SD might help. |
![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1952
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shouper of BHD wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Noticed alot of people are saying that the Flaylock has too large of a radius.
NO.
This damned thing has a splash radius smaller than ANY THER WEAPON.
The issue is the damage dealt. Theyre not aiming three meters away from you, theyre aiming AT YOU or AT YOUR FEET. This means that even with a radius of 1.5m they can still hit and deal damage.
Why do I say damage? Because they do more splash damage than ANY SEMI AUTO WEAPON IN THE GAME. That includes Large Missile Turrets and all Mass Driver variants. Charge times, projectile arches, etc were all put in place to balance these powerful weapons. The entire premise of why missiles now suck is because they do **** for splash damage (80? Seriously?)
Think about this... A Plasma Cannon has a splash radius of 3.5, larger than a Flaylock, but its strength is inits direct damage, not the splash.
Everyone keeps saying 'nerf the radius and RoF' but youre not looking at the big issue at hand. This is a close range weapon THAT CAN DOWN DROPSHIPS. I seriously doubt radius is going to stopa weapon that deals 650+ damage per magazine. CCP is going to nerf the radius because thats the feedback theyve gotten when its not the real issue. Do the research, compare to similar weapons and THEN propose changes.
CCP: This is not feedback, this is a corrective/educational statement. the complaint was from the skill book +5% BR which should be a +3%, as a missile turret user from an ADS stand point BR is the way to go (I think a hammer should be dropped but not some sledge hammer where we have to buff it after), a >small< reduction to SD might help.
Go compare Flaylock SD to Large Missiles and come back with your findings. Missiles rely on direct damage, not splash. Especially considering youre normally firing parallel to the ground |
![Banning Hammer Banning Hammer](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
368
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Funny you said about the Plasma Cannon...I actually hit someone the other day in the face.. but only the splash damage registered, even that i saw very clearly the splash animation. The same thing happen when i shoot someone at the legs.. I have to carefully aim at the CENTER of the hit box to get a direct hit... ![Straight](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_straight.png) |
![Galvan Nized Galvan Nized](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
101
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
So true, the splash is 90% of direct damage, that is crazy. Why even bother aiming for a direct hit where in you could whiff when you could just fart their general direction and get relatively the same damage. |
![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1952
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Posted - 2013.07.14 13:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Funny you said about the Plasma Cannon...I actually hit someone the other day in the face.. but only the splash damage registered, even that i saw very clearly the splash animation. The same thing happen when i shoot someone at the legs..I have to carefully aim at the CENTER of the hit box to get a direct hit... ![Straight](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_straight.png)
Noticed, as well, that splash damage doesnt register if you hit awall right next to them. |
![KingBabar KingBabar](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_caldari_128.jpg)
KingBabar
Internal Error. League of Infamy
885
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well I have a theory that the rpm speed of the Flaylock is way too high. The three rounds seem to come at me in too a rapid succession. I checked the markt but found no rpm stat o it, anyone using it actually know how fast it shoots?
Perhaps the thing in its current state wouldn't beso bad if the fire rate was put down to 60 or even 40.... |
![Scheneighnay McBob Scheneighnay McBob](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Band Dust Mercenaries Immortals of War
2261
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
The radius makes it hard to hit with, so it is indeed a skill weapon.
1.5m? More like 6 inches. |
|
![Chunky Munkey Chunky Munkey](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_amarr_128.jpg)
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
763
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
The two are cumulative. The radius wouldn't be so much of an issue if the damge wasn't so high, and vice versa.
One or the other needs a nerf. And since these are rockets, not grenades, I feel that reducing splash radius is the way to go. Especially when you consider that said radius increases by more than 100% from standard to proto. |
![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1955
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:The two are cumulative. The radius wouldn't be so much of an issue if the damge wasn't so high, and vice versa.
One or the other needs a nerf. And since these are rockets, not grenades, I feel that reducing splash radius is the way to go. Especially when you consider that said radius increases by more than 100% from standard to proto.
Funny thing is its explosive when its stats are more relative to something like a Kinetic weapon. I think it should do high direct damage buthave no splash, much like an armor piercing missile. Then again, its all in the payload. If itsgot an explosive warhead, that makes sense, but explosives are mostly shrapnel and I have a hard time believe that theyre putting out much of that. Just my imo, but it would definitely be a different weapon in that case.
Just cant wait to see how UP the Ion Pistol is considering the only legitimate Plasma weapon is the AR. Sure, Shotgun is nice but its definitely a skill weapon with this hit detection. Ion Pistol is probably going to be a mini-shotgun -_-_ |
![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
232
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Posted - 2013.07.14 14:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
No it isn't...on a dps level it's in line with other proto sidearms ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png)
The only difference is, it does it in bursts rather than over a longer period of time. Get used to it and adapt instead of whining... |
![Aeon Amadi Aeon Amadi](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1956
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Posted - 2013.07.14 15:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:No it isn't...on a dps level it's in line with other proto sidearms ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) The only difference is, it does it in bursts rather than over a longer period of time. Get used to it and adapt instead of whining...
Find me one other sidearm that does damage over a 2.5m radius and we'll talk. |
![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
232
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Posted - 2013.07.14 15:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:No it isn't...on a dps level it's in line with other proto sidearms ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) The only difference is, it does it in bursts rather than over a longer period of time. Get used to it and adapt instead of whining... Find me one other sidearm that does damage over a 2.5m radius and we'll talk.
The other guns don't need that splash radius because they have other major advantages! What do you want? Every gun doing the exact same damage in the exact same fashion?
Just because you are obviously not able to find a counter tactic (of which there are many!), doesn't mean the damage is OP ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) |
![Chunky Munkey Chunky Munkey](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_amarr_128.jpg)
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
763
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Posted - 2013.07.14 15:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:No it isn't...on a dps level it's in line with other proto sidearms ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) The only difference is, it does it in bursts rather than over a longer period of time. Get used to it and adapt instead of whining... Find me one other sidearm that does damage over a 2.5m radius and we'll talk.
R'adeh recites the same mantra on every Flaylock board. You won't get anywhere with him. |
![Monty Mole Clone Monty Mole Clone](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
30
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Posted - 2013.07.14 15:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
if it does hav a blast radius of 2.5 meteres i say it needs increasing coz an explosion 5 meters across is nowhere near big enough for such a feeble weapon |
![Xender17 Xender17](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
Xender17
Intrepidus XI EoN.
326
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Posted - 2013.07.14 15:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Peoples whining about splash radius is making the gave very unpractical. |
![KEROSIINI-TERO KEROSIINI-TERO](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
555
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:So true, the splash is 90% of direct damage, that is crazy. Why even bother aiming for a direct hit where in you could whiff when you could just fart their general direction and get relatively the same damage.
If that's true then it's really bad, maybe even broken. |
![Alpha 443-6732 Alpha 443-6732](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:So true, the splash is 90% of direct damage, that is crazy. Why even bother aiming for a direct hit where in you could whiff when you could just fart their general direction and get relatively the same damage. If that's true then it's really bad, maybe even broken.
Not exactly. It's how missiles should be in general. Missiles are splash weapons.
The problem here, is that the flaylock does a bit too much damage and doesn't trade much off for its burst power. In addition, its good AoE guarantees 90% of the shots fired will do their damage. This is not the case with an SMG or Scrambler pistol, that tend to miss often in CQC.
A good fix, would be to increase load time and reduce clip size to 2 or reduce firing speed by a considerable amount (either of the two). This would punish the flaylock spam greatly, if the change was made. |
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![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
246
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:No it isn't...on a dps level it's in line with other proto sidearms ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) The only difference is, it does it in bursts rather than over a longer period of time. Get used to it and adapt instead of whining... Find me one other sidearm that does damage over a 2.5m radius and we'll talk. R'adeh recites the same mantra on every Flaylock board. You won't get anywhere with him.
Not if you don't have any rational counter arguments...which you clearly don't have because you're seemingly unable to use your brain to come up with counter tactics (of which there are many). |
![Rian CuThalion Rian CuThalion](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/female_caldari_128.jpg)
Rian CuThalion
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
75
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yes! It's not how big it is that matters! It's what it does physically that matters! |
![DUST Fiend DUST Fiend](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_gallente_128.jpg)
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5066
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Not if you don't have any rational counter arguments...which you clearly don't have because you're seemingly unable to use your brain to come up with counter tactics (of which there are many). Explain to me again how a Flaylock isn't easier to use than a Scram or SMG?
::sits back, popcorn in hand:: |
![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
246
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Not if you don't have any rational counter arguments...which you clearly don't have because you're seemingly unable to use your brain to come up with counter tactics (of which there are many). Explain to me again how a Flaylock isn't easier to use than a Scram or SMG? ::sits back, popcorn in hand::
Because it requires you to lead your shots way more. It's also way less effective at range compared to the SP for example. In CQC the SMG allows you to stay alive even if you miss a few shots. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I take it you never tested all sidearms at proto level ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) |
![RKKR RKKR](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
229
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
IN CQC the flaylock allows you to stay alive evenif you miss a few shots AND kill the enemy. |
![Dengru Dengru](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_amarr_128.jpg)
Dengru
Red Star. EoN.
50
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Not if you don't have any rational counter arguments...which you clearly don't have because you're seemingly unable to use your brain to come up with counter tactics (of which there are many). Explain to me again how a Flaylock isn't easier to use than a Scram or SMG? ::sits back, popcorn in hand:: Because it requires you to lead your shots way more. It's also way less effective at range compared to the SP for example. In CQC the SMG allows you to stay alive even if you miss a few shots. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I take it you never tested all sidearms at proto level ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png)
throwing out 500dmg in 3 seconds and having to do a 1.5 second reload hardly is a 'disadvantage' i am amazed people keep saying this. When flaylocks users die its cause they depleted their stamina bunnyhopping and cant angle their shots or evade in the same way, not because of a reload. |
![stlcarlos989 stlcarlos989](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
342
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
1) There is only an 11% differece from direct damage and splash 2) The base reload speed is 2.5 seconds 3) It can fire its 3 rounds in about 2 seconds 4) The core's splash radius is 2.5m (8.2ft) 5) The splash is over 200 for the STD variant 6) 2 can be equiped and weapon swap speed is almost instantaneous now 7) Prototype CPU and PG costs are 45 and 2 respectively
So Flaylock defender's what about that is balanced? ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) |
![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
248
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
RKKR wrote:IN CQC the flaylock allows you to stay alive evenif you miss a few shots AND kill the enemy.
Not unless you face morons as opponents.... |
![R'adeh Hunt R'adeh Hunt](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_minmatar_128.jpg)
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
248
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dengru wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Not if you don't have any rational counter arguments...which you clearly don't have because you're seemingly unable to use your brain to come up with counter tactics (of which there are many). Explain to me again how a Flaylock isn't easier to use than a Scram or SMG? ::sits back, popcorn in hand:: Because it requires you to lead your shots way more. It's also way less effective at range compared to the SP for example. In CQC the SMG allows you to stay alive even if you miss a few shots. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I take it you never tested all sidearms at proto level ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) throwing out 500dmg in 3 seconds and having to do a 1.5 second reload hardly is a 'disadvantage' i am amazed people keep saying this. When flaylocks users die its cause they depleted their stamina bunnyhopping and cant angle their shots or evade in the same way, not because of a reload.
The reload isn't 1.5sec. But yes, without stamina they're at a major disadvantage too.
Also, you're assuming they actually hit with 2 out of 3 shots...which isn't going to happen if you face decent opponents who know how to use cover. You can't balance a weapon based on bad opponents ![Roll](https://forums.dust514.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_roll.png) |
![RKKR RKKR](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/img/character_creator/male_caldari_128.jpg)
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
230
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dear R'adeh Hunt an answer like "Not unless you face morons as opponents...." can be applied to anything. Just drop all your "research" and I will admit you're right if it makes sense.
I like how stlcarlos989 seems to come up with facts unlike you...to bad he isn'tsupporting the flaylock. |
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