so i killed you with my laser? sounds great!

In your general pub flaylocks won't appear to frequently simply because the majority of players are not skilled into it. Watch any pc battle and fused/flaylock central begins.

Laser - 1

+1 great work

...

Quote:
Laser - 1


That poor lonely bastard.

This is all nice and fine and all, but really proves nothing as to what weapon is over powered or under powered. It simply tells us what the most popular weapons were in the matches that you recorded these statistics.

There are simply too many variables to conduct a test as simple as this.

For more information see my thread here.

This is all nice and fine and all, but really proves nothing as to what weapon is over powered or under powered. It simply tells us what the most popular weapons were in the matches that you recorded these statistics.

There are simply too many variables to conduct a test as simple as this.

For more information see my thread here.

I have done this a couple times and have gotten similar results.

However I did mine before the 1.2 update so shotgun was much higher on the list.

I'm thinking that the reason flaylocks and HMG's are skewed on this list is because of a few reasons. First of all, HMG's and flaylocks are only good for players that have skilled way up into them and are either stacking damage mods, or suing some other method of making the weapon more useful. Also, if you get a good HMG player in the match they can easily get 20-30 kills and skew the chart substantially. Flaylocks aren't used as most as other weapons because they require a special setup for them to be effective. The problem is, they're too effective and annoyingly so.

Ding ding ding. This guys a correct. +1

I'm still unsure as to why the flaylock gets so much OP whine but it certainly isn't getting the kills to warrant it

I love stats guess im jus a stat geek would love to see my own

Hehe yeah, love me stats too but god damn it gets dull just reading the kill feed and counting! The analyses are the fun part :)

2293 kills in 10 matches ?


It is something wrong with you math, or you been playing a different game.

By the way... that is over 200 kills per battle ....

Do you even know how to count? When has 41 ever gone between 32 & 21?
Maybe an unconscious bias on your part?

2293 kills in 10 matches ?


It is something wrong with you math, or you been playing a different game.

By the way... that is over 200 kills per battle ....

87.3% of all stats are false.

Only 4 Knives? Not that effective, is it dip****s? Get a real weapon.

Ah you are quite correct - no need to be an ass about it though.

My scouty buddies have been telling me that there's hit detection problems with the knives lately, so that may be why they're not featuring much.

My bad. I apologize.

I still don't like the flaylock

Well it's kills on both sides, so that could go up to 300 but also I've updated for a 2nd set of 10 matches now, so that's 20 matches.

20 matches still doesn't adds on ... that is over 100 kills per match .. try again ?

Lol hes talking about total kills on both sides not by him but every player so thise kills aretotally possible. You should read more carefully.

Shotguns gained a few places today and flaylocks too, though the numbers are still far lower than I expected considering the current furore over them.

I know what he means .. still doesn't adds on. That is an average of 4 kills per person in both teams, all 32 players. Take away the AFKers, the noobs, and snipers.. which is about half of the team... That leave you with 8 people in each team getting an average of 8 kills each. Most battles ends in red-lines, with the top players with only about 8-12 kills... so.. you see.. doesn't adds on.

I know what he means .. still doesn't adds on. That is an average of 4 kills per person in both teams, all 32 players. Take away the AFKers, the noobs, and snipers.. which is about half of the team... That leave you with 8 people in each team getting an average of 8 kills each. Most battles ends in red-lines, with the top players with only about 8-12 kills... so.. you see.. doesn't adds on.

Your experience of dust seems crap. I can vouch for severall of tge kills django has counted as he was in several games against my corp mates and myself . I was there for several games and none of them were as you describe. And yes the kill feeds were going crazy. Possibly due to mordues chalange I havent seen anyone afk appart from django and he was logging kills.

Even if the top 3 players in a team gets, lets say; 30 kills / 15 kills / 10 kills ( 55 ) I seriously doubt that the rest of the players will get another 55 between them... maybe in a VERY good match 70-80 kills in total, but definitely not over 100.. and specially not 10 battles in a row.

Firstly, I want to apologise to anyone who played a game with me in today because I was AFK while I was doing this for 10 games - I don't do it often but at least this time I had good reason.

Okay, so what I did was fairly simple: I just tallied up every cause of death for every kill by anybody on either team over the course of 10 matches. This was during a Saturday evening, Sunday afternoon and Friday either side of downtime (all GMT).

These were the results and I've given some analysis below: (updated to include 3rd set of 10 matches)

Assault Rifle - 1110
Sniper Rifle - 455
HMG - 360
LAV - 233
HAV - 163
SMG - 156
Mass Driver - 130
Scrambler Rifle - 124
Locus Grenade - 121
Precision Strike - 99
Shotgun - 97
Flaylock - 77
Forge Gun - 69
Swarm Launcher - 61
Installation - 49
AV Grenade - 47
Remote Explosive - 38
Dropship - 10
Scrambler Pistol - 15
Melee - 8
Plasma Cannon - 7
Laser - 5
Nova Knives - 5
Flux Grenade - 2

So with the 3rd set of data (now 30 matches total) not a lot is changing on the whole in regards to the kill rankings of the weapons. The flaylock shot up 2 places and shotguns have done better lately but the 3 top killer remain ARs, snipers and HMGs followed by murder taxis and the top sidearm is still the SMG (though the flaylock was actually pretty close in the latest session, just not overall).

Didn't see any laser rifle kills today nor buggy fluxes and knives and plasma cannon kills are still very rare.

I did this latest session for a couple of hours before downtime as well as a couple after in order to capture a different crowd to usual. I also left updating this until after the Mordu's challenge event was over to see if that made a difference but the stats generally followed the same patterns. I shall continue to do this occasionally and change the time/day to capture stats from various timezones, etc. and get a broader picture until it looks like I've got a pretty stable picture - hopefully it doesn't take too many more sessions because it gets really effin dull watching the killfeed for 3 - 4 hours!

Fortunately, I know that CCP collect this sort of data for all matches and so are very well aware of the kinds of numbers on a much much greater scale - so with any luck they know the problem areas and are planning on sorting them all out fairly soon (TM)...

- I'll add more data as and when I collect it -

Bad science is bad.

Amount of use is not an indicator of OP'dness.

Wrong. But even going with your flawed logic (BTW it's clear to anyone with brains that people migrate to what is OP, hence the term FOTM) Even that aside, the AR overusage is killing diversity in the game.

There's no point to most of the other weapons.

AR usage is about equal to that of the lower used 10 out of 12 light weapons/sidearms combined! That's terrible diversity, and bad for the game regardless if you want to attach the well deserved OP moniker or not.

You're wrong. Just because something is the most used does not necessarily mean it is OP. You're making an assumption. What you need to do is focus in on players who run extremely high kills, and what gear they are using.

Ex. You got into a match that is 90% new players. The AR is the most available weapon to new players, so you will see it show up more.

Ex. When missiles were broken in previous builds, and dropships could fly untouched, 70-0 wasnt unheard of. It was however, far from used by everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Except this is what 30 matches for him? 8 for my data, and even a nice donation of PC stats. All confirm the same thing. AR is killing diversity.

Look at the scrambler rifle - 10 times as many people use the AR as scrambler rifle. lol! and the AR isn't OP, nope.

Here, I can do the wikipedia link too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial


Bottom line. Don't call it OP if you can't stomach the truth, but the numbers don't lie. The weapon is a huge problem for diversity in the game, and this diversity issue needs to be addressed ASAP.

Honestly, I don't expect many of you to agree with the facts. It's because you're part of the AR wielding hegemony.

Wasn't the argument against the flaylock (and other weapons before it) that people were speccing into it and getting cheap kills because it was EZ mode? And yet, it's kill count is way down the line. And here we have king AR, sitting on top of the pile, EZ mode as can be forever.


The problem is, because we're playing AR 514, anytime any weapon actually approaches the usability of the AR, it gets nerfed to be uncompetitive. This is why the AR represents nearly as many kills as all other light weapons and sidearms combined!

Call it OP, or don't. It doesn't change the facts that the devs might as well not be working on any other weapons. The AR is that dominant.

Ah, 12 yr old attempts science, cute.

Firstly, all this data shows is the probability that you will encounter a certain weapon during a match. Thats it. You have no definition for OP other than "it is used frequently" without exploring the other possible reasons for why an AR would be most used ( again, it could be new players are most comfortable with it due to the name, or not realising the SCR is a type of AR for a different race)

Again, bad science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Example:

130 people play and are studies:
100 people use the AR and they average 9 kills and 4 deaths
10 people use the Flaylock and average 15 kills and 2 deaths
10 people use the Mass driver and average 12 kills and 3 deaths
10 people use the Scrambler rifle and average 7 kills and 3 deaths

the AR had 900 kills
the FLhad 150 kills
the MD had 120 kills
the SR had 70 kills

the AR had nearly 3 times the kill count

Conclusion, the AR is OP and a dominant weapon

3x kills, but 10x more users for the idiots who cant see it for themselves.

lol. keep defending your AR OP EZ mode please.

Listen. The stats don't lie.

The AR is a problem, it's used 10 times more than a supposedly similar weapon, the SR.

All this data shows is that the AR is dominating the game, and all that time the devs spend on other weapons is wasted. That sounds like a problem to me, but just in case you need more detail:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

Also, he definitely has enough data here to reach statistical significance.

Toss out OP, and you still have a huge problem. Accept the truth, and it's the biggest weapon related problem in the game. Again though, I know I'm a dissenting voice because I'm not one of the 75% relying on the crutch of the AR.

I dont have a single SP spent into AR, derpmoar.

All you can do with this data is show a probability for the chance that you will encounter a certain weapon, thats it. Its a poorly designed study for showing OP'dness. If you want to show that you need to go by the number of kills per weapon DIVIDED by the number of people using it. See above post.

Keep in mind what the OP has shown is kills, not usage.

So, you admit he has an incomplete data set, which is not reliable enough to use to draw conclusions from. Thank you.

hail AR 514. Hail king AR.

That's what these data show.

Pick a scenario.

When the data doesnt fit your original hypothesis (OP'dness"), change it!

Bad science is bad.

That's funny. You see, it's people like the OP and myself that are presenting the objective facts. All you've done is blow hot air.

I stand by my numbers. I stand by his.

Hail AR 514. Go AR or go home.

When the data doesnt fit your original hypothesis (OP'dness"), change it!

Bad science is bad.

LOL, facts. You started with assumptions and bias and set out to "prove" it. That is not science, and certainly not statistics.

That's funny. You see, it's people like the OP and myself that are presenting the objective facts. All you've done is blow hot air.

I stand by my numbers. I stand by his.

Hail AR 514. Go AR or go home.

please understand that you have show how many kills with each weapons.

please understand what you HAVE NOT shown is how many people were running those weapons.

please understand that I was simply trying to show you why your claim that the AR has more kills than all other weapons in the game is due to the fact that is used more frequently, vastly more frequently.

please understand that I (we?) are arguing that other weapons in the game are deemed OP because people are able to generate extremely high kill to death ratios when using those weapons and they create an imbalance.

Except this is what 30 matches for him? 8 for my data, and even a nice donation of PC stats. All confirm the same thing. AR is killing diversity.

Look at the scrambler rifle - 10 times as many people use the AR as scrambler rifle. lol! and the AR isn't OP, nope.

Here, I can do the wikipedia link too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial


Bottom line. Don't call it OP if you can't stomach the truth, but the numbers don't lie. The weapon is a huge problem for diversity in the game, and this diversity issue needs to be addressed ASAP.

......

lol. keep defending your AR OP EZ mode please.

Listen. The stats don't lie.

The AR is a problem, it's used 10 times more than a supposedly similar weapon, the SR.

All this data shows is that the AR is dominating the game, and all that time the devs spend on other weapons is wasted. That sounds like a problem to me, but just in case you need more detail:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

Also, he definitely has enough data here to reach statistical significance.

Toss out OP, and you still have a huge problem. Accept the truth, and it's the biggest weapon related problem in the game. Again though, I know I'm a dissenting voice because I'm not one of the 75% relying on the crutch of the AR.

Fact: The AR kills more than any other weapon. It's equivalent, or nearly so, the the bottom 10 or 12 light/sidearm weapons combined.

Possible Conclusions:

A) The vast majority (maybe like 75%) of the playerbase uses the AR, but the kill with it less often than other players kill with other weapons.

B) Something like 50% use it and kill at an average rate compared to other weapons.

C) Less than 50% use it, but kill with greater frequency than other players.


QED

Please understand, the biggest imbalance in the game is AR overusage.

Buster just stop. You have proven yourself to not have the intellect necessary to properly perform a study and use the data given to reach a conclusion that is appropriate based on the method of your data capture.

You have failed.......badly.

Your logic does not follow.

I am a scrmb rifle user and I can tell you the scrambler beats out the AR anyday of the week. You can foolishly continue on trying to prove that your horribly run study actually proves a weapon has OP status but you will only convince the idiots on the forums of this. Anyone with a brain will understand immediately that your study is flawed.

That's funny. You see, it's people like the OP and myself that are presenting the objective facts. Incidentally, your hypothetical was scenario A, but I like how you can't bring yourself to admit it, or to understand that those three scenarios are the only possible conclusions from the data, and they're all bad. All you've done is blow hot air.

I stand by my numbers. I stand by his.

Hail AR 514. Go AR or go home.

Like I said. I understand that I'm a dissenting voice. I don't expect to be accepted.

The facts are the facts though.

Hail AR 514.

Hehe yeah, love me stats too but god damn it gets dull just reading the kill feed and counting! The analyses are the fun part :)

Like I said. I understand that I'm a dissenting voice. I don't expect to be accepted.

The facts are the facts though.

Hail AR 514.

Like I said. I understand that I'm a dissenting voice. I don't expect to be accepted.

The facts are the facts though.

Hail AR 514.

Like I said. I understand that I'm a dissenting voice. I don't expect to be accepted.

The facts are the facts though.

Hail AR 514.

Django, you've done our community a great service by attempting to provide objective statistical data for fair minded analysis. Thank you. Your efforts should be recognized, if not rewarded.

And while I agree that it is likely CCP gathers and maybe even tracks this kind of information, the fact that they choose not to publish or share it as the basis for reasonable discussion and transparency with the player base only serves to keep opinions, hyperbole and emotionally charged rhetoric as the guiding force behind player feedback.

You say you included the third data set, but you failed to include the 50 flux grenade kills.

Link to thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95744

Edit: As I stated before, you are not recording enough matches to have enough data to record accurate stats here.
10 games out of thousands is not enough

nice stats...

But honest, this either the worst excuse to cover up AFK MCC camping, or you just have WAY TO MUCH time on your hands...

It's summer, might I suggest you go out side or perhaps...

Get a fking job, you tramp.

Thank you for telling me the mean, median and mode of the the analysis.

How bout you tell me the power of the study, how about whether or not your conclusions should lead me to accept or reject the null hypothesis, what bout that alpha and the beta of the study. When you are done doing these basic parameters would you gauge your analysis as a retrospective or prospective and what will you use cohort or case control analysis meaning is this subject to an odds ratio, chi square, weighted t-test, maybe an anova?

All you have shown is that the AR is the most widely seen weapon on the killfeed, this actually tells us nothing on wheter or not its actually the most widely used weapon in the game. Logi LAVs could in fact be the most used weapon in the game, or Remotes or Even Scramblers, it doesnt take into any account dmg done over time by all other weaponry it doesnt even tell us wheter those AR kills were from pure AR dmg or a stolen kill.

Even if it did, its still based off of pub data which is a whole other set of fail.

Please stop or dont and allow us to continue to point and laugh at you.

I wish to completely distance myself from Buster's comments in this thread, as they do not reflect my own views or conclusions.

The purpose of this data was never to show that anything was OP or not and I don't believe any of this data alone could possibly show this. It is quite obvious that the AR is the most used weapon and gets the most kills - that does not infer it is OP. Likelihood is that many people use it because it is the most familiar weapon to them after playing other FPSs.

My point was only ever to provide some data. I was a little irked by a few people recently publishing lists of the weapons that kill them over a number of games because these all relied on a single player's playstyle - this data is a generalised version of those attempts and no one else has provided this information previously.

I realise my dataset is limited but I will continue to expand it over time. 30 matches and thousands of kills is a good start. The reason I don't have those 50 flux grenade kills is that none of those happened in any of the matches I happened to be watching - i.e. I can't collect data for things I don't observe.

Heh, yes, this does mean I spend a few hours doing nothing in MCCs but damn it's frustrating and dull. I sometimes wish I could go down and help out, especially when I can see on the map exactly where that sniper on the killstreak is hiding or when I know I could get that LLAV buzzing around murder-taxiing everyone but I resist, so that I in no way skew the results. If I was playing, you'd see a lot more pistol kills. But it is boring and I don't get to do anything else whilst doing it because I literally have to be watching the killfeed the entire game or I miss stuff - it's hard as it is when there's 5+ deaths within seconds and I have to mark them down before they disappear because only the last 3 show at once.

I've been unemployed for well over a year now and have been desperately seeking work, whilst doing my own games design projects. Fortunately, I have an interview tomorrow and another 2 on Wednesday, so I won't be in this state much longer (fingers crossed). I hate feeling like a bum :(

I think you may be underestimating our noob community. Put a few monkeys with typewriters together and they will "eventually" write the Iliad. Simple probability.

AFKing has gone down sharply in the past few days, so I wouldn't put much stock in that either.

We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know that is not true.

Robert Wilensky

87.3% of all stats are false.

In your general pub flaylocks won't appear to frequently simply because the majority of players are not skilled into it. Watch any pc battle and fused/flaylock central begins.

A better more effective statistic would be the amount of kills for each weapon type divided by the number of people who are carrying the weapon. This will better inform the OPness of the tool. Everyone carries grenades so comparing flalock kills to grenade kills is like comparing the number of murders in the US to the number of murders in Brazil. Your logic isn't logical.

I am in the market for a new car and want the best I can get. Inspired by this thread, I went to the street and counted the first 800 cars that passed by. (I was going to count to 1,000 but I got bored.)

In order of frequency, the cars were:

...

My buddy has an Audi R8, but that thing didn't even make my list. It must be a piece of crap! Ford Focus is clearly the best car on the road, so that's what I'm buying.

2293 kills in 10 matches ?


It is something wrong with you math, or you been playing a different game.

By the way... that is over 200 kills per battle ....