20 matches still doesn't adds on ... that is over 100 kills per match .. try again ?

Lol hes talking about total kills on both sides not by him but every player so thise kills aretotally possible. You should read more carefully.

Shotguns gained a few places today and flaylocks too, though the numbers are still far lower than I expected considering the current furore over them.

I know what he means .. still doesn't adds on. That is an average of 4 kills per person in both teams, all 32 players. Take away the AFKers, the noobs, and snipers.. which is about half of the team... That leave you with 8 people in each team getting an average of 8 kills each. Most battles ends in red-lines, with the top players with only about 8-12 kills... so.. you see.. doesn't adds on.

I know what he means .. still doesn't adds on. That is an average of 4 kills per person in both teams, all 32 players. Take away the AFKers, the noobs, and snipers.. which is about half of the team... That leave you with 8 people in each team getting an average of 8 kills each. Most battles ends in red-lines, with the top players with only about 8-12 kills... so.. you see.. doesn't adds on.

Your experience of dust seems crap. I can vouch for severall of tge kills django has counted as he was in several games against my corp mates and myself . I was there for several games and none of them were as you describe. And yes the kill feeds were going crazy. Possibly due to mordues chalange I havent seen anyone afk appart from django and he was logging kills.

Even if the top 3 players in a team gets, lets say; 30 kills / 15 kills / 10 kills ( 55 ) I seriously doubt that the rest of the players will get another 55 between them... maybe in a VERY good match 70-80 kills in total, but definitely not over 100.. and specially not 10 battles in a row.

Firstly, I want to apologise to anyone who played a game with me in today because I was AFK while I was doing this for 10 games - I don't do it often but at least this time I had good reason.

Okay, so what I did was fairly simple: I just tallied up every cause of death for every kill by anybody on either team over the course of 10 matches. This was during a Saturday evening, Sunday afternoon and Friday either side of downtime (all GMT).

These were the results and I've given some analysis below: (updated to include 3rd set of 10 matches)

Assault Rifle - 1110
Sniper Rifle - 455
HMG - 360
LAV - 233
HAV - 163
SMG - 156
Mass Driver - 130
Scrambler Rifle - 124
Locus Grenade - 121
Precision Strike - 99
Shotgun - 97
Flaylock - 77
Forge Gun - 69
Swarm Launcher - 61
Installation - 49
AV Grenade - 47
Remote Explosive - 38
Dropship - 10
Scrambler Pistol - 15
Melee - 8
Plasma Cannon - 7
Laser - 5
Nova Knives - 5
Flux Grenade - 2

So with the 3rd set of data (now 30 matches total) not a lot is changing on the whole in regards to the kill rankings of the weapons. The flaylock shot up 2 places and shotguns have done better lately but the 3 top killer remain ARs, snipers and HMGs followed by murder taxis and the top sidearm is still the SMG (though the flaylock was actually pretty close in the latest session, just not overall).

Didn't see any laser rifle kills today nor buggy fluxes and knives and plasma cannon kills are still very rare.

I did this latest session for a couple of hours before downtime as well as a couple after in order to capture a different crowd to usual. I also left updating this until after the Mordu's challenge event was over to see if that made a difference but the stats generally followed the same patterns. I shall continue to do this occasionally and change the time/day to capture stats from various timezones, etc. and get a broader picture until it looks like I've got a pretty stable picture - hopefully it doesn't take too many more sessions because it gets really effin dull watching the killfeed for 3 - 4 hours!

Fortunately, I know that CCP collect this sort of data for all matches and so are very well aware of the kinds of numbers on a much much greater scale - so with any luck they know the problem areas and are planning on sorting them all out fairly soon (TM)...

- I'll add more data as and when I collect it -

Bad science is bad.

Amount of use is not an indicator of OP'dness.

Wrong. But even going with your flawed logic (BTW it's clear to anyone with brains that people migrate to what is OP, hence the term FOTM) Even that aside, the AR overusage is killing diversity in the game.

There's no point to most of the other weapons.

AR usage is about equal to that of the lower used 10 out of 12 light weapons/sidearms combined! That's terrible diversity, and bad for the game regardless if you want to attach the well deserved OP moniker or not.

You're wrong. Just because something is the most used does not necessarily mean it is OP. You're making an assumption. What you need to do is focus in on players who run extremely high kills, and what gear they are using.

Ex. You got into a match that is 90% new players. The AR is the most available weapon to new players, so you will see it show up more.

Ex. When missiles were broken in previous builds, and dropships could fly untouched, 70-0 wasnt unheard of. It was however, far from used by everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias

Except this is what 30 matches for him? 8 for my data, and even a nice donation of PC stats. All confirm the same thing. AR is killing diversity.

Look at the scrambler rifle - 10 times as many people use the AR as scrambler rifle. lol! and the AR isn't OP, nope.

Here, I can do the wikipedia link too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial


Bottom line. Don't call it OP if you can't stomach the truth, but the numbers don't lie. The weapon is a huge problem for diversity in the game, and this diversity issue needs to be addressed ASAP.

Honestly, I don't expect many of you to agree with the facts. It's because you're part of the AR wielding hegemony.

Wasn't the argument against the flaylock (and other weapons before it) that people were speccing into it and getting cheap kills because it was EZ mode? And yet, it's kill count is way down the line. And here we have king AR, sitting on top of the pile, EZ mode as can be forever.


The problem is, because we're playing AR 514, anytime any weapon actually approaches the usability of the AR, it gets nerfed to be uncompetitive. This is why the AR represents nearly as many kills as all other light weapons and sidearms combined!

Call it OP, or don't. It doesn't change the facts that the devs might as well not be working on any other weapons. The AR is that dominant.

Ah, 12 yr old attempts science, cute.

Firstly, all this data shows is the probability that you will encounter a certain weapon during a match. Thats it. You have no definition for OP other than "it is used frequently" without exploring the other possible reasons for why an AR would be most used ( again, it could be new players are most comfortable with it due to the name, or not realising the SCR is a type of AR for a different race)

Again, bad science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_premise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

Example:

130 people play and are studies:
100 people use the AR and they average 9 kills and 4 deaths
10 people use the Flaylock and average 15 kills and 2 deaths
10 people use the Mass driver and average 12 kills and 3 deaths
10 people use the Scrambler rifle and average 7 kills and 3 deaths

the AR had 900 kills
the FLhad 150 kills
the MD had 120 kills
the SR had 70 kills

the AR had nearly 3 times the kill count

Conclusion, the AR is OP and a dominant weapon

3x kills, but 10x more users for the idiots who cant see it for themselves.

lol. keep defending your AR OP EZ mode please.

Listen. The stats don't lie.

The AR is a problem, it's used 10 times more than a supposedly similar weapon, the SR.

All this data shows is that the AR is dominating the game, and all that time the devs spend on other weapons is wasted. That sounds like a problem to me, but just in case you need more detail:

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

Also, he definitely has enough data here to reach statistical significance.

Toss out OP, and you still have a huge problem. Accept the truth, and it's the biggest weapon related problem in the game. Again though, I know I'm a dissenting voice because I'm not one of the 75% relying on the crutch of the AR.

I dont have a single SP spent into AR, derpmoar.

All you can do with this data is show a probability for the chance that you will encounter a certain weapon, thats it. Its a poorly designed study for showing OP'dness. If you want to show that you need to go by the number of kills per weapon DIVIDED by the number of people using it. See above post.

Keep in mind what the OP has shown is kills, not usage.

So, you admit he has an incomplete data set, which is not reliable enough to use to draw conclusions from. Thank you.

hail AR 514. Hail king AR.

That's what these data show.

Pick a scenario.

When the data doesnt fit your original hypothesis (OP'dness"), change it!

Bad science is bad.

That's funny. You see, it's people like the OP and myself that are presenting the objective facts. All you've done is blow hot air.

I stand by my numbers. I stand by his.

Hail AR 514. Go AR or go home.