DUST Search - Tanks + Dropships: 50% price reduction

The legend345 wrote:

CharCharOdell wrote:

Here is how money goes for tanks:

1 standard tank with meta 3 (or 5 for maddies) modules and a proto turret runs about 1,400,000 ISK. This level of gear is necessary, as any less tank or damage, and survivability plummets exponentially, but that's another topic entirely. (about 600k ISK more than last build)

An average payout per match is usually around 250,000 ISK, unless the other team calls in mad vehicles.

That means I need to make a tank last 6 matches or I go negative. Now, there are a couple ways of reducing cost: AURUM tanks/turrets (1,200,000 ISK reduction) or to redline snipe the entire game.

Assuming that people do not want tanking to be a p2w experience, then tankers are confined to redline sniping if they want to make a tank last 6 rounds because no matter how good a tanker is, one of those six matches is going to end with getting spammed with AV the second you get on the frontline.

My current proposal is not a nerf or buff to the tanks, but a price reduction. Sure, I'd love to have God Mode, but I just don't see it happening. Reducing the cost of vehicle hulls, modules, and turrets by 50% would help tankers and dropship pilots out, immensely, without making them any more powerful. Cheaper tanks means more opportunity to kill them because tankers will be more inclined to get into AV range, as losing one isn't a big deal.

No **** that. Give me a good tank I have money

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CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 399	Posted - 2013.07.10 22:58:00 - [1] - Quote Here is how money goes for tanks: 1 standard tank with meta 3 (or 5 for maddies) modules and a proto turret runs about 1,400,000 ISK. This level of gear is necessary, as any less tank or damage, and survivability plummets exponentially, but that's another topic entirely. (about 600k ISK more than last build) An average payout per match is usually around 250,000 ISK, unless the other team calls in mad vehicles. That means I need to make a tank last 6 matches or I go negative. Now, there are a couple ways of reducing cost: AURUM tanks/turrets (1,200,000 ISK reduction) or to redline snipe the entire game. Assuming that people do not want tanking to be a p2w experience, then tankers are confined to redline sniping if they want to make a tank last 6 rounds because no matter how good a tanker is, one of those six matches is going to end with getting spammed with AV the second you get on the frontline. My current proposal is not a nerf or buff to the tanks, but a price reduction. Sure, I'd love to have God Mode, but I just don't see it happening. Reducing the cost of vehicle hulls, modules, and turrets by 50% would help tankers and dropship pilots out, immensely, without making them any more powerful. Cheaper tanks means more opportunity to kill them because tankers will be more inclined to get into AV range, as losing one isn't a big deal.
A B Ablabab The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 72	Posted - 2013.07.10 23:09:00 - [2] - Quote I'd be all for that. I think CCP should fix AV first. Once AV works properly letting you get your tank on for a decent price just adds to the fun :)
Dr Allopathy Raging Pack of Homos 165	Posted - 2013.07.10 23:13:00 - [3] - Quote Or you could run less expensive tanks.
Cy Clone1 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 99	Posted - 2013.07.10 23:24:00 - [4] - Quote Dr Allopathy wrote: Or you could run less expensive tanks. run less expensive vehicles= die more often and still lose lots of money. Proto turrets cost 4x more than the tank shell. we already lost damage now you want use to give up proto guns. ***** please.
Telleth DUST University Ivy League 66	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:02:00 - [5] - Quote I like it. I normally resort to messing about in starter fit gear, being one of those dummies in a starter LAV going for road kills and/or trying to ramp my LAV into a derpship to grind out some Isk to get my blaster tank fix without breaking the wallet.
The legend345 0uter.Heaven 727	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:03:00 - [6] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Here is how money goes for tanks: 1 standard tank with meta 3 (or 5 for maddies) modules and a proto turret runs about 1,400,000 ISK. This level of gear is necessary, as any less tank or damage, and survivability plummets exponentially, but that's another topic entirely. (about 600k ISK more than last build) An average payout per match is usually around 250,000 ISK, unless the other team calls in mad vehicles. That means I need to make a tank last 6 matches or I go negative. Now, there are a couple ways of reducing cost: AURUM tanks/turrets (1,200,000 ISK reduction) or to redline snipe the entire game. Assuming that people do not want tanking to be a p2w experience, then tankers are confined to redline sniping if they want to make a tank last 6 rounds because no matter how good a tanker is, one of those six matches is going to end with getting spammed with AV the second you get on the frontline. My current proposal is not a nerf or buff to the tanks, but a price reduction. Sure, I'd love to have God Mode, but I just don't see it happening. Reducing the cost of vehicle hulls, modules, and turrets by 50% would help tankers and dropship pilots out, immensely, without making them any more powerful. Cheaper tanks means more opportunity to kill them because tankers will be more inclined to get into AV range, as losing one isn't a big deal. No **** that. Give me a good tank I have money
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 409	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:12:00 - [7] - Quote The legend345 wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: Here is how money goes for tanks: 1 standard tank with meta 3 (or 5 for maddies) modules and a proto turret runs about 1,400,000 ISK. This level of gear is necessary, as any less tank or damage, and survivability plummets exponentially, but that's another topic entirely. (about 600k ISK more than last build) An average payout per match is usually around 250,000 ISK, unless the other team calls in mad vehicles. That means I need to make a tank last 6 matches or I go negative. Now, there are a couple ways of reducing cost: AURUM tanks/turrets (1,200,000 ISK reduction) or to redline snipe the entire game. Assuming that people do not want tanking to be a p2w experience, then tankers are confined to redline sniping if they want to make a tank last 6 rounds because no matter how good a tanker is, one of those six matches is going to end with getting spammed with AV the second you get on the frontline. My current proposal is not a nerf or buff to the tanks, but a price reduction. Sure, I'd love to have God Mode, but I just don't see it happening. Reducing the cost of vehicle hulls, modules, and turrets by 50% would help tankers and dropship pilots out, immensely, without making them any more powerful. Cheaper tanks means more opportunity to kill them because tankers will be more inclined to get into AV range, as losing one isn't a big deal. No **** that. Give me a good tank I have money I'll just leave this here...
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:14:00 - [8] - Quote I agree, that a good tie down until tanks are actually fixed, would be a cost reduction. As a tanker you should have to be in control of you isk in/out, but as OP stated, 1 tank per 6 matches, with current AV nade/hive spam ability is kinda ridiculus
BatKing Deltor Tank Bros. DARKSTAR ARMY 103	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:44:00 - [9] - Quote Enforcers and any other level one STANDARD specialized tank should be between 300-450k. 1.27 mill isn't right. Turrets? They could use a price reduction as well.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 57	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:54:00 - [10] - Quote As an infantry I can agree that all things vehicle related above LAVs need a price cut. The WP gains for drop ships are so meager that it doesn't justify the cost. Tanks are great for WPs buy even they could use a price cut. Tank support really comes down to utilizing your teammates to take out AV, but I do agree that some AV, particularly forge guns, could use some tweaking. AV Nades are not effective enough against LLAVs and a bit too effective on tanks.

Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 28	Posted - 2013.07.11 00:54:00 - [11] - Quote Same for lavs too!
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 142	Posted - 2013.07.11 01:02:00 - [12] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: As an infantry I can agree that all things vehicle related above LAVs need a price cut. The WP gains for drop ships are so meager that it doesn't justify the cost. Tanks are great for WPs buy even they could use a price cut. Tank support really comes down to utilizing your teammates to take out AV, but I do agree that some AV, particularly forge guns, could use some tweaking. AV Nades are not effective enough against LLAVs and a bit too effective on tanks. I like this guy.
Big miku Internal Error. League of Infamy 251	Posted - 2013.07.11 01:44:00 - [13] - Quote It's pretty ******** that Turrets cost so much. Who gave that one the go ahead?
Sgt Buttscratch Algintal Core Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2013.07.11 01:58:00 - [14] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: As an infantry I can agree that all things vehicle related above LAVs need a price cut. The WP gains for drop ships are so meager that it doesn't justify the cost. Tanks are great for WPs buy even they could use a price cut. Tank support really comes down to utilizing your teammates to take out AV, but I do agree that some AV, particularly forge guns, could use some tweaking. AV Nades are not effective enough against LLAVs and a bit too effective on tanks. I think forge guns are fine VS's HAV, its versus infantry where I think the problem lies, and dropships, really seem to just have the short straw all around(for the most). AV grenades need to do lock on faster to LAV's, a tanker needs a squad who can AP the AV. Maybe the lighter the vehicle the easier or stronger the homing ability of the grenade
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 642	Posted - 2013.07.11 01:59:00 - [15] - Quote Tanks get spammed too much as it is, we don't need them cheaper so people can spam them even more.
Nguruthos IX Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 864	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:06:00 - [16] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Tanks get spammed too much as it is, we don't need them cheaper so people can spam them even more. I don't think I want vehicles to be cheap, but I also don't want them to be physically cheap. The fact that its possible for a forge gun to literally one shot my DS (recorded a single hit for over 6400 damage) AND it cost me 1.3 mil Is a little out of line. But that maybe this is seperate from the tank issues idk. Something about medium air vehicle only using small modules, being less tanky than a lav and costing 26x as much as the weapon that killed that quickly rubs me the wrong way.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 415	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:14:00 - [17] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Tanks get spammed too much as it is, we don't need them cheaper so people can spam them even more. They do not get spammed. If that is what you call spam, then ARs get spammed much more. Tanks need to be affordable. It isnt fair that we need to live 6 rounds to profit...and people wonder why we want ridiculously powerful tanks. Would you rather have god mode tanks?
Killar-12 Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 98	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:24:00 - [18] - Quote Reduce the price of turrets by a factor of 3 and it will feel a lot more balenced. Increase DS health by 15%(slowly increase health) Fix PG skill to 5% increase to Vehicle PG per level. make it so that 2 tanks are the max that can be called into a standard match or 4 in FW/PC LAV's 4 the max in Instant Battle 6 in FW/PC DS'es 2 in pubs 3 in FW/PC
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 416	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:37:00 - [19] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Reduce the price of turrets by a factor of 3 and it will feel a lot more balenced. Increase DS health by 15%(slowly increase health) Fix PG skill to 5% increase to Vehicle PG per level. make it so that 2 tanks are the max that can be called into a standard match or 4 in FW/PC LAV's 4 the max in Instant Battle 6 in FW/PC DS'es 2 in pubs 3 in FW/PC what happens when more than 2 tankers are in the same match? theyre just supposed to be useless? I disagree. we need matchmaking so that good tankers dont end up stomping noobs. that would fix the problem u are trying to prevent.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 439	Posted - 2013.07.11 02:54:00 - [20] - Quote I'm totally on board with this. Vehicles should be cheap up enough to use every match or every other match, but should also be extremely vulnerable to AV. Dropships are currently none of the former and all of the later and probably need an even bigger price drop than 50%... This is coming from someone who FG nom noms whenever it's convenient. I feel bad for those dropship pilots, I really do. But I gotta shoot 'em anyway.

oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 154	Posted - 2013.07.11 03:36:00 - [21] - Quote Dr Allopathy wrote: Or you could run less expensive tanks. yea oh snap i never thought of that ..... sooooo how do i do that ? please mr tank builderere expert do tell me how do i build a cheap tank my dirt cheapst fitting of a tank that can last more than 2 seconds is still roughly 900k do you know a secret we dont or should i just drop a soma and give the reds a free 150 ?
oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 154	Posted - 2013.07.11 03:39:00 - [22] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Same for lavs too! how about no ... every match i see about 3.2 million lavs squishin ppl how about no just no jack their price up since a logi lav can last 4 to 8 matches un scathed
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.07.11 03:48:00 - [23] - Quote oso tiburon wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Same for lavs too! how about no ... every match i see about 3.2 million lavs squishin ppl how about no just no jack their price up since a logi lav can last 4 to 8 matches un scathed And tanks (at least my missile madrugar) absolutely wreck any lav other than llavs, which are at most 2 more connecting shots. Till it becomes immortal against tanks to, it should receive a price drop also.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 882	Posted - 2013.07.11 03:49:00 - [24] - Quote Increase (or totally remove if it doesn't make the game explode) the vehicle limit, if we make vehicles cheaper. Increase map sizes if we increase or remove the vehicle limit. Increase game size if we increase map size. If we make vehicles cheaper without increasing number of players per match and map size, things may get a little suffocated. As for pricing, vehicle hulls should have prices on par with dropsuits. The cost is in the technology, assuming materials are not scarce in New Eden. Now, if that's the case, surely the price of a tank hull can't be more than highly advanced combat suits designed to protect a human body from the most extreme punishment, with technology that enhances every possible biological feature of that body, and still possess the ability to power weapons to destroy other similar dropsuits? If the cost of tanks mostly comes from technology, then I fear we mercenaries are getting scammed by the big wigs. What technology goes into a hunk of metal which can't withstand a forge gun (based off mining tech) without modules? In that light, modules should be where the expense is at, not the hull itself. Turrets shouldn't be as expensive as they are now, either. If materials were scarce and that's where the cost is coming from, then tanks are going to go extinct at the rate they're being destroyed each day. So surely that can't be the problem. Same applies to dropship hulls. Doesn't take a rocket scientist (funny, it probably does) to create a thrust-propelled brick which moves like Jagger when it gets hit by a flaylock.
Terra Thesis HDYLTA Defiant Legacy 334	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:15:00 - [25] - Quote vehicles are supposed to be isk sinks imho. esp if you're such a princess you can't stand the thought of using anything except the very very bestest toys. people want to run the nicest possible shinies in the game 24/7 and be able to profit? i vote hell no. buff tanks if you want to, but they should never be profitable. they should be a terrifying symbol of wealth and power, not something affordable that you spam every match to solo grind out some isk. dropping tanks should mean you have a big wallet, big friends, or a powerful employer. dropping tanks should mean "this is going to cost a fortune, but we're ******* winning this match".
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 424	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:08:00 - [26] - Quote Terra Thesis wrote: vehicles are supposed to be isk sinks imho. esp if you're such a princess you can't stand the thought of using anything except the very very bestest toys. people want to run the nicest possible shinies in the game 24/7 and be able to profit? i vote hell no. buff tanks if you want to, but they should never be profitable. they should be a terrifying symbol of wealth and power, not something affordable that you spam every match to solo grind out some isk. dropping tanks should mean you have a big wallet, big friends, or a powerful employer. dropping tanks should mean "this is going to cost a fortune, but we're ******* winning this match". a terrifying symbol of wealth and power that only the best can pilot and only the richest corps can afford, but are win buttons??? :) Well if you want to buff tanks then I can live with the current price :D I think every tanker can live with having win buttons :D You, sir, are my new favorite person! (no trollin)
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 424	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:13:00 - [27] - Quote Now we are back at the big question: Should vehicles be relatively squishy things that should only last 1-2 matches, but are affordable enough to do so and still profit, or should the be the Titans of Dust, where one of them getting deployed almost gaurentees a victory (a win button), but that they are so ridiculously expensive that it would be impossible for one person to deploy one, lose it, and call in another one within 20 games? This is the great question that will ultimately decide the fate of tanks. 1) Win button that is only seen in the most important battles fought by the biggest corps or 2) Squishy but very affordable, and they will be deployed as much as dropsuits There is no middle ground here. We have tried it and it does not work.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 51	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:25:00 - [28] - Quote Tanks cost a lot for a reason. They don't want you to be able to roll them out every single match without being careful. Something about blueberries not knowing when to switch to AV half the time. That said Proto Turrets are highly overpriced.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 687	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:28:00 - [29] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: Something about blueberries not knowing when to switch to AV half the time. The hell? As an HAV operator, you must be joking. Swarm launchers and grenades come out of the woodwork, I'm just surprised that Forge Guns are not so common.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 51	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:36:00 - [30] - Quote I did say half the time. I was just talking Blueberries though not organized squads.



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