You get 5 mins and then 10 minutes in the war barge for a total of 15 minutes (yay maths!) between battles.

Edit: Also we have 2 days to take feedback, if we decide to change our mind on any of this we can ninja it before deployment or will consider delaying the deployment.

I think you misunderstand what I mean about timers stacking.

Say a corp has a attack on a ditrict with a timer of 0100-0200 and a defense on a district set at 0200-0300

The fist battle begins at 0145 and the second at 0210. The corporation wins the attack an because of the new reupped attack they now have two battles taking place at 0210. This can completely cascade on corporations who have districts with timers set at 1 hour apart.

Basically my biggest gripe with the change is it will force corporations to set 1 hour down times between each PC battle. What I'm asking is that the PC battles be scheduled only at the bottom of each hour timer that way their is time for 2 PC battles to take place before affecting the next timer window.

I think you misunderstand what I mean about timers stacking.

Say a corp has a attack on a ditrict with a timer of 0100-0200 and a defense on a district set at 0200-0300

The fist battle begins at 0145 and the second at 0210. The corporation wins the attack an because of the new reupped attack they now have two battles taking place at 0210. This can completely cascade on corporations who have districts with timers set at 1 hour apart.

Basically my biggest gripe with the change is it will force corporations to set 1 hour down times between each PC battle. What I'm asking is that the PC battles be scheduled only at the bottom of each hour timer that way their is time for 2 PC battles to take place before affecting the next timer window.

I think you misunderstand what I mean about timers stacking.

Say a corp has a attack on a ditrict with a timer of 0100-0200 and a defense on a district set at 0200-0300

The fist battle begins at 0145 and the second at 0210. The corporation wins the attack an because of the new reupped attack they now have two battles taking place at 0210. This can completely cascade on corporations who have districts with timers set at 1 hour apart.

Basically my biggest gripe with the change is it will force corporations to set 1 hour down times between each PC battle. What I'm asking is that the PC battles be scheduled only at the bottom of each hour timer that way their is time for 2 PC battles to take place before affecting the next timer window.

I kind of agree with deluxe on this... that seems kind of harsh... esp when you're just getting screwed by rng.

Even rounding to the nearest half hour would be a huge help in planning.

Otherwise your timers will just have to be at least 2 hours apart and thats it? Just HTFU?

I mean i'm all for overlapping timers as part of the metagame... but a little refinement here would go a long way.

Changing timers to 30m increments and you attack on the timer would go a long way to bringing a little consistency to PC matchmaking.

Yes this is absolutely a risk with having timers alongside each other. Some corps will take that risk and bet on being able to defend against attacks with their first battle, some may choose to move them apart to avoid this risk. You have to remember that the attacker is taking a big risk sending more clones as well though, it leaves their district more vulnerable and if they lose the first battle they lose BIG. This is all an acceptable part of the meta game imo.

Sounds great!

The only concern I have is with the continued assault 5 minutes after the first battle. With the way timers currently work this system would cause a lot of issues with unexpected battle overlap. My proposed fix would be to have every battle begin at the 00 minutes of hour instead of randomly placed somewhere in the 1 hour timer.

That is the only undesirable situation I saw arising.

On a side note I would like to point out that while it's really great that these changes are coming in 2 days, it would of been nice of CCP to give us more of a heads up. From what I hear the CPM have been privy to this information for a while and with certain members of that CPM being heads of alliances gives them a much larger window to plan ahead for the upcoming changes, and how they should manage their districts.

Please CCP give us a fluid form of patch notes, one that is clear that everything on it is subject to change and is only present for the purpose of informing the community of the current changes/improvement being work on and to recieve feedback on said changes/improvements. This was rank and file members of the community and alliances without access to CPM members aren't caught by suprise when suddenly the value of their districts are changed in 48 hours.

Metagame is your friend. Hire mercs to defend the overlap, offload the land in a fire sale, or start changing your timers today.

Meanwhile as a person who speaks with Kain regularly i can tell you that i had no idea about these changes to PC before the blog today.

...

Metagame is your friend. Hire mercs to defend the overlap, offload the land in a fire sale, or start changing your timers today.

Meanwhile as a person who speaks with Kain regularly i can tell you that i had no idea about these changes to PC before the blog today.

the biggest issue is 5min between matches and you have several matches scheduled in an evening. yes this new system will be fine and dandy for the 1 district corp, but everyone with more than 1 will run into this issue...

perfect example:

corp A has 2 districts, reinforcement at 0000 and 0100. not stacking timers

corp B attacks both districts of corp A, on this day the time of the first match is 0040 and the second match is 0110


Corp B wins the first match, and cannot even reup because they have 8 minutes until their other scheduled match.

system failed....


example 2:

Corp A has 3 districts 0000 0100 0200
Corp B 3 districts 0100 0200 0300

both corp A and corp B attack each other on all the districts (very likely scenario in wartime)

Corp B wins the 0000 match but once again cannot reup because they are defending their own timer in 9 minutes... luckily the timers don't overlap and they can show for their 2nd attack at 0140, but they lost their defense and corp A has reupped...

now currently the war of attrition will wear down the defender if they lose, but they have a day before they are playing to save their district.

the 5min rule I think is a good OPTION, in theory, but requires some regulation, as in BOTH teams having to agree to the continuation immediately, yes the reup can stand and all proposed rules for it stay. I like the more than 100 clones, no regen etc etc, but this game is based on scheduling and often multiple matches in an evening, and the current proposal does not account for that, leading to even more no-shows than we currently deal with

just my 2 cents and is something few have even mentioned. Aside from this I welcome all the changes and hope it will increase interest in PC!!

the biggest issue is 5min between matches and you have several matches scheduled in an evening. yes this new system will be fine and dandy for the 1 district corp, but everyone with more than 1 will run into this issue...

yes but you entire premise is revolved around a single 16 person team having to defend all those timers and thats kind of the point isnt it?

There was a reason IMPS wanted to be mercs and not land owners and this was the precise reason why. Honestly i dont think its that big a deal because if you want to own and occupy large pieces of territory then you have to have the numbers either within a corp, alliance or through hiring of mercs to retain it. It seems silly that any small group can hold onto such vasts amounts of territory without an army.

Logistically speaking a single 16 person team can retain 3 districts spread out over a 4 hour window with 2 hours of space between each timer to ensure there is no overlap of any kind.

But should a person decide to keep district with timers within the hour then yes they should either have more bodies by whatever means they can procure them. The whole point is to get more involvement from other corps and to also start utilizing alliances in a more meaningful manner as it is currently single corps arent even in need of their alliance partners as they hold vasts sums of territory on their own so why even bother having alliances in the first place.

If you have only 16 people to field all your PC battles you have more problems than just overlapping timers...

We got about 25. And we been doing just fine thanks.

You get 5 mins and then 10 minutes in the war barge for a total of 15 minutes (yay maths!) between battles.

Edit: Also we have 2 days to take feedback, if we decide to change our mind on any of this we can ninja it before deployment or will consider delaying the deployment.

all im sayin is with the current state of things that is just going to go back and forth until more groups get into PC.

whatever, I'm trying to provide constructive input on the system itself, not the current % of ownership in PC.

the merc business will never have a chance to get off the ground without more corps getting into PC, plain and simple

personally, I don't care about land ownership, never have. I move districts whenever I can, squatting on one here and there and booking our passports wherever the fight is.

whatever tho, I guess we will see how this all transpires real soon if this new system can improve PC or simply kill it for good.

too bad too cause the other changes are very positive and promote more people getting in, just to have their hopes and dreams dashed a day later....

at least it wont cost em as much tho I guess

The danger overlap is actually a good thing. This prevents entities with little manpower or little depth to their rosters from trying to hold large swaths of space and just cycle out the same 16 people over the course of the whole day of PC battles. If you don't have the numbers then don't hold the land.

So screw the small corps.

I know you are cubs and im not putting this on you or anything. I would say this to my own corp and other corps that hold lots of districts. I dont think the devs ever envisioned any single entity holding a lot of districts without meta in the form of numbers or politics. That said a single corp holding one district and having 2 fights a day can make massive isk through active winning


Say you own a production facility. You attack with 200 of 300 clones from district A to district B. Given the min 24 hour rule at the time of movement you dont even need to fill that district to full since there will be 2 cycles of clone production on that district from anyone who attacks you(thats current mechanics as is now). You take that and decide im going to farm a hub(it will become clear in a minute why you farm hubs)


So you attack and win with a loss 80 clones, the other team loses 150, that a total of 230 clones @ 150K/clone=34,500,000/16=2,156,250 to each of the participants +40 clones back to the attacker@150K=6M ISK.

With 120 clones left you press a second attack. (still trying to find out if that 40 clones you get from attack raids on clone generation is added to your clone count on followup then its 160)

Again you drop 150 clones plus lets say you only lost 20 so that 170 clones @ 150K/16=1,593,750.
Again i dont know if you get to raid a second 50% of the defenders clone generation but thats another 40 clones if so and another 6M ISK.

So in the end over the course a single attack each participating merc just made 3,750,000 ISK and the corp just took 12M ISK in clones without flipping the district and severly weakening that hub which will take 4 days to regain ISK generation.

Meanwhile that 12M isk is another 12M you can payout to the mercs who just participated in the fight.

This is from a single attack on a district. The flipside becomes interesting because people forget there is a defense raiding mechanic that noone really ever got to see because noone ever brought more 150 clones. Defenders for successful defense receive 50% of ALL clones brought over 150 clones. So if someone bring 300 clones to battle regardless of have many clones they lose in the fight less than 150 or more than 150 you will still earn 75 clones if you successfully defend against them. That makes defense a real viability, of course the attackers could only bring 150 clones to prevent you from getting any clones off them but then all you have to do is cost them 51 clones or win and you will force them to fight 1-2 days later depending on whether you win or not.

Clones arent added for followup attack but they are sent back straight away.--from fox in the feedback thread.