DUST Search - Planetary conquest changes

CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:

the biggest issue is 5min between matches and you have several matches scheduled in an evening. yes this new system will be fine and dandy for the 1 district corp, but everyone with more than 1 will run into this issue...

perfect example:

corp A has 2 districts, reinforcement at 0000 and 0100. not stacking timers

corp B attacks both districts of corp A, on this day the time of the first match is 0040 and the second match is 0110

Corp B wins the first match, and cannot even reup because they have 8 minutes until their other scheduled match.

system failed....

example 2:

Corp A has 3 districts 0000 0100 0200
Corp B 3 districts 0100 0200 0300

both corp A and corp B attack each other on all the districts (very likely scenario in wartime)

Corp B wins the 0000 match but once again cannot reup because they are defending their own timer in 9 minutes... luckily the timers don't overlap and they can show for their 2nd attack at 0140, but they lost their defense and corp A has reupped...

now currently the war of attrition will wear down the defender if they lose, but they have a day before they are playing to save their district.

the 5min rule I think is a good OPTION, in theory, but requires some regulation, as in BOTH teams having to agree to the continuation immediately, yes the reup can stand and all proposed rules for it stay. I like the more than 100 clones, no regen etc etc, but this game is based on scheduling and often multiple matches in an evening, and the current proposal does not account for that, leading to even more no-shows than we currently deal with

just my 2 cents and is something few have even mentioned. Aside from this I welcome all the changes and hope it will increase interest in PC!!


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 78	Posted - 2013.07.09 18:45:00 - [1] - Quote Deluxe Edition wrote: Sounds great! The only concern I have is with the continued assault 5 minutes after the first battle. With the way timers currently work this system would cause a lot of issues with unexpected battle overlap. My proposed fix would be to have every battle begin at the 00 minutes of hour instead of randomly placed somewhere in the 1 hour timer. That is the only undesirable situation I saw arising. On a side note I would like to point out that while it's really great that these changes are coming in 2 days, it would of been nice of CCP to give us more of a heads up. From what I hear the CPM have been privy to this information for a while and with certain members of that CPM being heads of alliances gives them a much larger window to plan ahead for the upcoming changes, and how they should manage their districts. Please CCP give us a fluid form of patch notes, one that is clear that everything on it is subject to change and is only present for the purpose of informing the community of the current changes/improvement being work on and to recieve feedback on said changes/improvements. This was rank and file members of the community and alliances without access to CPM members aren't caught by suprise when suddenly the value of their districts are changed in 48 hours. Metagame is your friend. Hire mercs to defend the overlap, offload the land in a fire sale, or start changing your timers today. Meanwhile as a person who speaks with Kain regularly i can tell you that i had no idea about these changes to PC before the blog today.
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 83	Posted - 2013.07.09 19:09:00 - [2] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: the biggest issue is 5min between matches and you have several matches scheduled in an evening. yes this new system will be fine and dandy for the 1 district corp, but everyone with more than 1 will run into this issue... perfect example: corp A has 2 districts, reinforcement at 0000 and 0100. not stacking timers corp B attacks both districts of corp A, on this day the time of the first match is 0040 and the second match is 0110 Corp B wins the first match, and cannot even reup because they have 8 minutes until their other scheduled match. system failed.... example 2: Corp A has 3 districts 0000 0100 0200 Corp B 3 districts 0100 0200 0300 both corp A and corp B attack each other on all the districts (very likely scenario in wartime) Corp B wins the 0000 match but once again cannot reup because they are defending their own timer in 9 minutes... luckily the timers don't overlap and they can show for their 2nd attack at 0140, but they lost their defense and corp A has reupped... now currently the war of attrition will wear down the defender if they lose, but they have a day before they are playing to save their district. the 5min rule I think is a good OPTION, in theory, but requires some regulation, as in BOTH teams having to agree to the continuation immediately, yes the reup can stand and all proposed rules for it stay. I like the more than 100 clones, no regen etc etc, but this game is based on scheduling and often multiple matches in an evening, and the current proposal does not account for that, leading to even more no-shows than we currently deal with just my 2 cents and is something few have even mentioned. Aside from this I welcome all the changes and hope it will increase interest in PC!! yes but you entire premise is revolved around a single 16 person team having to defend all those timers and thats kind of the point isnt it? There was a reason IMPS wanted to be mercs and not land owners and this was the precise reason why. Honestly i dont think its that big a deal because if you want to own and occupy large pieces of territory then you have to have the numbers either within a corp, alliance or through hiring of mercs to retain it. It seems silly that any small group can hold onto such vasts amounts of territory without an army. Logistically speaking a single 16 person team can retain 3 districts spread out over a 4 hour window with 2 hours of space between each timer to ensure there is no overlap of any kind. But should a person decide to keep district with timers within the hour then yes they should either have more bodies by whatever means they can procure them. The whole point is to get more involvement from other corps and to also start utilizing alliances in a more meaningful manner as it is currently single corps arent even in need of their alliance partners as they hold vasts sums of territory on their own so why even bother having alliances in the first place.
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 83	Posted - 2013.07.09 20:08:00 - [3] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: all im sayin is with the current state of things that is just going to go back and forth until more groups get into PC. whatever, I'm trying to provide constructive input on the system itself, not the current % of ownership in PC. the merc business will never have a chance to get off the ground without more corps getting into PC, plain and simple personally, I don't care about land ownership, never have. I move districts whenever I can, squatting on one here and there and booking our passports wherever the fight is. whatever tho, I guess we will see how this all transpires real soon if this new system can improve PC or simply kill it for good. too bad too cause the other changes are very positive and promote more people getting in, just to have their hopes and dreams dashed a day later.... at least it wont cost em as much tho I guess I know you are cubs and im not putting this on you or anything. I would say this to my own corp and other corps that hold lots of districts. I dont think the devs ever envisioned any single entity holding a lot of districts without meta in the form of numbers or politics. That said a single corp holding one district and having 2 fights a day can make massive isk through active winning Say you own a production facility. You attack with 200 of 300 clones from district A to district B. Given the min 24 hour rule at the time of movement you dont even need to fill that district to full since there will be 2 cycles of clone production on that district from anyone who attacks you(thats current mechanics as is now). You take that and decide im going to farm a hub(it will become clear in a minute why you farm hubs) So you attack and win with a loss 80 clones, the other team loses 150, that a total of 230 clones @ 150K/clone=34,500,000/16=2,156,250 to each of the participants +40 clones back to the attacker@150K=6M ISK. With 120 clones left you press a second attack. (still trying to find out if that 40 clones you get from attack raids on clone generation is added to your clone count on followup then its 160) Again you drop 150 clones plus lets say you only lost 20 so that 170 clones @ 150K/16=1,593,750. Again i dont know if you get to raid a second 50% of the defenders clone generation but thats another 40 clones if so and another 6M ISK. So in the end over the course a single attack each participating merc just made 3,750,000 ISK and the corp just took 12M ISK in clones without flipping the district and severly weakening that hub which will take 4 days to regain ISK generation. Meanwhile that 12M isk is another 12M you can payout to the mercs who just participated in the fight. This is from a single attack on a district. The flipside becomes interesting because people forget there is a defense raiding mechanic that noone really ever got to see because noone ever brought more 150 clones. Defenders for successful defense receive 50% of ALL clones brought over 150 clones. So if someone bring 300 clones to battle regardless of have many clones they lose in the fight less than 150 or more than 150 you will still earn 75 clones if you successfully defend against them. That makes defense a real viability, of course the attackers could only bring 150 clones to prevent you from getting any clones off them but then all you have to do is cost them 51 clones or win and you will force them to fight 1-2 days later depending on whether you win or not. Clones arent added for followup attack but they are sent back straight away.--from fox in the feedback thread.
MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 89	Posted - 2013.07.09 23:07:00 - [4] - Quote pdiddy anfama wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The danger overlap is actually a good thing. This prevents entities with little manpower or little depth to their rosters from trying to hold large swaths of space and just cycle out the same 16 people over the course of the whole day of PC battles. If you don't have the numbers then don't hold the land. So screw the small corps. Actually small corps can easily enter into PC now with a 30M investment that is 1,875,000 per person for a 16 person group. If a corp cant find 16 people to spend that then they should hardly be in PC i think. That by the way is 12-15M/day of ISK generation so a corp can recoup their initial investment into a empty district within 2-3 days of full clone reserves. Ive already laid out what the potential ISK revenue would look like in a typical attack of a cargo hub and what the possible profit margins are for a successful defense. Honestly if a corp doesn't think they can win in a PC fight then perhaps they shouldn't get involved. Meanwhile Planet fight club has just become an extremely proftiable venture for any corp looking to participate simply by holding a district on that planet now. Morveover with only 100 clones for a gen pack, ISK spam is less likely to occur as 100 clones is not a large clone count to fight with unless the battle is extremely one sided. Lastly given these numbers mercing out contracts is far more viable both for the mercs and corp in question since they can easily pay out a nice contract fee and still profit given the increase values on both biomass and district clones. All in all this will help the smaller corps while not doing much to help larger corps unless they can continually win, the caveat now is given the reattack option if those large organization take too much land they find themselves vulnerable since timers WILL overlap there simply isnt a chance of avoiding that fact anymore. I think as PC moves forward you will see a lot of contraction on the part of the mega alliances and more room opening up for other groups to get into PC without breaking their corp wallets.