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Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.07 13:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Taken from https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79256&p=3
CCP Nothin wrote:Now, in regard to the weekly skill cap and the implications of it:
We acknowledge that the current implementation of the skill cap still isn't quite there yet. It doesn't quite allow people to choose when to play as freely as we would like, and it also adds some unnecessary complexity when it comes to using active boosters. This is why we are working our way towards a rollover SP system: instead having your pool of bonus SP being reset according to a fixed weekly cycle, you will steadily accumulate bonus SP to a pool over time that you can then empty through fighting in battles. As a result, everyone should be able to better choose when to come in and claim the available SP. Moving to such a system would have the added benefit of allowing us to make active boosters to give out a constant value over time by having them influence the rate at which SP accumulates into the pool instead of just multiplying SP received at the end of each battle.
So, when is this coming? Vacation months are coming soon and I think everyone would appreciate to know if they're going to be able to spend some time in the sun this summer rather than grind SP to stay competitive. Also, what about all that missed bonus SP that players have since open beta (or Uprising), is it going to be added retroactively to this new SP pool? I think it's only fair since players would still have to play to get it all back.
Please confirm that any missed bonus SP is going to be added back into this new pool once the change is deployed.
Thank you
P.S.
How would passive boosters work with this new system? |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 17:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
232
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 18:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bamp.
CCP has a Nice Idea for DUST.
Give us a Few months and Destiny will be shivering in its boots. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd still like to see some degree of SP decay from the pool if they're not being used, to incentivize regular play. Maybe 10% attrition of the total pool every week. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2411
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 19:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, we definitely need more info on this. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.07.10 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
I've written and rewritten this post many times, and I've come to the conclusion that the present system should be maintained. Here is why.
1. Imagine the cap rollover was implemented. If this happens, the nature of active boosters would have to change. Because CCP wouldn't want someone accumulating 7 weeks worth of SP and hardcore grinding for 7 days, earning all that 1.5x boosted SP on a single 7-day active booster.
2. So active boosters are changed to increase the rate at which SP accumulates into the available pool. This is bad because short duration actives - 1-3 days - become worthless. If the 190,400 cap is maintained, that's 27200 SP daily, so the 1 day would grant 13600 extra SP, and the 3 day, 40800 SP. You would need to buy 30 day actives for the best value. Note that a strategically used 30 day active would still net more SP under the current system.
3. If the nature of active boosters are changed, then we lose the 1.5x bonus when WP = SP after hitting cap. It's not a significant amount unless you play excessively but it does represent lost SP.
4. The rollover system only benefits players who do not reach cap for whatever reason. It seems odd to give the system an overhaul which only benefits players who do not play regularly enough to cap (<11 hrs per week), while hurting those players who do grind and still play after reaching cap (11+ hrs per week). |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1137
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm also not sure we need to change the skill cap concept. I'd rather the cap was somewhat variable based on the total SP of the player's alt... to help newer players get to a reasonable level and then settle into a common advancement rate. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN.
18
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Posted - 2013.07.10 20:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would support an increased cap for new players (maybe 1.5 times the regular rate) until they hit a certain arbitrary SP amount. Doing away with cap completely until said amount would again lead to active booster abuse (at least in CCPs eyes). |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 22:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Still no update, keep bumping chaps; this change is long overdue. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
729
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 22:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Justice bump |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
729
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 22:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Justice bump
So much Justice it led to a double post. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
229
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Posted - 2013.07.11 23:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not using any more active boosters until this happens. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
729
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 00:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:I'm not using any more active boosters until this happens.
Boosters aren't worth it unless you buy merc packs and this game is not worth 20 dollars a month. |
Willie Fistersnatch
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.07.12 00:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
some people are running around gunning everyone down unopposed. people will cry about proto gear and flaylocks. I am telling every one i meet in game a little secret. sticking together and squading up are nice but how would you like a real edge?
you can be unstoppable. I will be broadcasting how over teamchat this evening but for you loyal fans of chaos try this.
upon getting a black screen press down to open map,L1 for neocom, open playerlist. back out of everything and presto optic camo. no one can see you now. run and gun with glee |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
913
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 00:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Or we could reduce the importance of SP by not having it unlock anything. Instead, SP can be applied specifically the groups of weapons (based on variants, perhaps) to enhance that specific group's effectiveness. For example, triage repair tools have a skill which increases repair rate to infantry, whilst axis repair tools have skills which increase effectiveness of repairing vehicles and installations. These skills would only apply to their specific items; there will be more skills and it'd be a little more fun to specialise, because you can go even further than a weapon: you can specialise into a variant.
Furthermore, because SP doesn't unlock anything, essentially no one can complain about an equipment gap due to SP. Now, many complain that there is no more 'progression' if everything was unlocked initially.
Well, okay. What if I told you advanced and prototype gear now cost the same as tanks do? There's your progression. Grinding for ISK. And this way, the gap between vets and newbs closes. Vets play longer, have more money, but use more expensive gear, and earn less profit from pubs. Newbies have less money, but earn more, because their gear is dirt cheap.
Furthermore, the new SP system means newbies can buy prototype weapons, but it'd still be weaker than the one veterans use because they haven't applied efficacy skills to it.
To me, at least, it makes more sense that ISK defines play more than SP. all these complaints about SP should be about ISK. |
Raist Soulforge
the troll hord
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 01:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Whatever adjustments they make, they need to make sure to give us more than about 360k potential during a week. An MCC AFK'er can hit this much just squatting in the MCC for about 2 hours a night (including the passive SP they earn in a week's time). Contrast this to what the typical casual player does (around 3 hours a night, not 2). Such players have no problems hitting the current 190k active play cap in just a few days. It's really not hard to pull in upwards of 40k during a 3 hour session.
Simply put, the current system is too low to really incentivise steady, daily play. All it does is foster a couple days a week of serious gameplay, perhaps 4 or 5 days of very casual play.
Keep everything as it works now, with just a few tweaks. First, increase the cap to give us an incentive to play for more days during the week. Say, 300 to 350k. That's good enough for 40-50k a day, 7 days a week. At reset, rollover unobtained SP into a buffer that gets used FIRST the next week. Put a hard cap on that buffer, so that it can never exceed a full week's worth of SP (to avoid a ping-pong on-again/off-again play pattern). Making it a hard cap makes it easier to code too (no percentage penalties to calculate, nor any weird decay mechanic to figure out).
This should be simpler to implement (and explain to the players) , gives incentive for the more dedicated players to play more than a few nights a week, while giving those with less time than they'd like to dedicate an opportunity to play catch up now and then when they get more time to play on some weeks. Boosters are still relevant without being Godly--though it will make them more popular (hint hint---more $$ to CCP to support development....wink wink, nudge, nudge). |
Raist Soulforge
the troll hord
12
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 01:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Or we could reduce the importance of SP by not having it unlock anything. Instead, SP can be applied specifically the groups of weapons (based on variants, perhaps) to enhance that specific group's effectiveness. For example, triage repair tools have a skill which increases repair rate to infantry, whilst axis repair tools have skills which increase effectiveness of repairing vehicles and installations. These skills would only apply to their specific items; there will be more skills and it'd be a little more fun to specialise, because you can go even further than a weapon: you can specialise into a variant.
Furthermore, because SP doesn't unlock anything, essentially no one can complain about an equipment gap due to SP. Now, many complain that there is no more 'progression' if everything was unlocked initially.
Well, okay. What if I told you advanced and prototype gear now cost the same as tanks do? There's your progression. Grinding for ISK. And this way, the gap between vets and newbs closes. Vets play longer, have more money, but use more expensive gear, and earn less profit from pubs. Newbies have less money, but earn more, because their gear is dirt cheap.
Furthermore, the new SP system means newbies can buy prototype weapons, but it'd still be weaker than the one veterans use because they haven't applied efficacy skills to it.
To me, at least, it makes more sense that ISK defines play more than SP. all these complaints about SP should be about ISK.
Interesting approach....but there may be some issues with the AUR gears. There's that whole paying to win aspect that would probably still come into play somewhat, so not sure if CCP look to hard at this approach. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
915
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 01:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Raist Soulforge wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:Or we could reduce the importance of SP by not having it unlock anything. Instead, SP can be applied specifically the groups of weapons (based on variants, perhaps) to enhance that specific group's effectiveness. For example, triage repair tools have a skill which increases repair rate to infantry, whilst axis repair tools have skills which increase effectiveness of repairing vehicles and installations. These skills would only apply to their specific items; there will be more skills and it'd be a little more fun to specialise, because you can go even further than a weapon: you can specialise into a variant.
Furthermore, because SP doesn't unlock anything, essentially no one can complain about an equipment gap due to SP. Now, many complain that there is no more 'progression' if everything was unlocked initially.
Well, okay. What if I told you advanced and prototype gear now cost the same as tanks do? There's your progression. Grinding for ISK. And this way, the gap between vets and newbs closes. Vets play longer, have more money, but use more expensive gear, and earn less profit from pubs. Newbies have less money, but earn more, because their gear is dirt cheap.
Furthermore, the new SP system means newbies can buy prototype weapons, but it'd still be weaker than the one veterans use because they haven't applied efficacy skills to it.
To me, at least, it makes more sense that ISK defines play more than SP. all these complaints about SP should be about ISK. Interesting approach....but there may be some issues with the AUR gears. There's that whole paying to win aspect that would probably still come into play somewhat, so not sure if CCP look to hard at this approach.
If all items are available for ISK and already unlocked, AUR items are only special in that they have a pretty paint job. Which is essentially how it should be. Sure, people could run prototype weapons by buying them with AUR, but then to run it they'd need prototype dropsuits, and prototype modules to keep the clone alive long enough to make full use of that weapon. It'd be pretty expensive to run a full AURUM dropsuit, and expensive ISK-wise to run a full prototype dropsuit too.
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
77
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 07:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
I like OP's idea. |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 21:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
*crickets chirping* |
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Yokal Bob
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 21:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
i would prefer if the skill cap was removed altogether to be honest. for me i cap in one day then have to grind for the rest of the week. As for the newbies, it does not allow them to catch up but rather keeps them at the same difference. moving the sp cap system over to a rollover system does nothing to change this.
how is anyone meant ot catch up to the high level players if they can not progress through a certain mark? the usual method of 'well if i play more then them ill catch up' needs to be restored. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
933
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 22:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yokal Bob wrote:i would prefer if the skill cap was removed altogether to be honest. for me i cap in one day then have to grind for the rest of the week. As for the newbies, it does not allow them to catch up but rather keeps them at the same difference. moving the sp cap system over to a rollover system does nothing to change this.
how is anyone meant ot catch up to the high level players if they can not progress through a certain mark? the usual method of 'well if i play more then them ill catch up' needs to be restored.
I would agree with this... as along as the rewards per battle we're reduced to be more appropriate and prevent having these 'titans' with 30-40 million sp ahead of the next person.
Changing the active SP system to something like 2SP/WP + 1 SP/s no cap would be a refreshing change. Possibly bumping the passive SP per week slightly to accomodate as well.
atm the game is just 'grind to cap' each week. Its stale and its frustrating. By removing the cap, you remove the drive to reach it.. and therefore you just play the game to have fun = more fun for all. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion rise of legion
89
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 03:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
From what you've written, it sounds like setting the cap to zero is better than removing the cap. |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Megabump! |
Doshneil Antaro
SVER True Blood
102
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I've written and rewritten this post many times, and I've come to the conclusion that the present system should be maintained. Here is why.
1. Imagine the cap rollover was implemented. If this happens, the nature of active boosters would have to change. Because CCP wouldn't want someone accumulating 7 weeks worth of SP and hardcore grinding for 7 days, earning all that 1.5x boosted SP on a single 7-day active booster.
2. So active boosters are changed to increase the rate at which SP accumulates into the available pool. This is bad because short duration actives - 1-3 days - become worthless. If the 190,400 cap is maintained, that's 27200 SP daily, so the 1 day would grant 13600 extra SP, and the 3 day, 40800 SP. You would need to buy 30 day actives for the best value. Note that a strategically used 30 day active would still net more SP under the current system.
3. If the nature of active boosters are changed, then we lose the 1.5x bonus when WP = SP after hitting cap. It's not a significant amount unless you play excessively but it does represent lost SP.
4. The rollover system only benefits players who do not reach cap for whatever reason. It seems odd to give the system an overhaul which only benefits players who do not play regularly enough to cap (<11 hrs per week), while hurting those players who do grind and still play after reaching cap (11+ hrs per week). Your right, only grindaholics that have zero life should be able to play dust effectively.
Lol, your post is so one sided without any real justification. |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Working as intended.
Now just put the issue down and walk away slowly. Do as I say and no one gets hurt. |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bump. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN.
50
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote: Lol, your post is so one sided without any real justification.
What I'm saying is that CCP won't change the SP cap system without changing how boosters work, and changes to how boosters work would probably do more harm than good.
If you are concerned about playing Dust "effectively" and competing with other players in terms of SP, then it should be easy for you to hit cap. It is only 11 hrs worth of play time or maybe 15 hrs of AFKing per week.
If you are unable to cap for whatever reason that is out of your control, then HTFU and don't miss next week's cap. Or pay a neighborhood kid to AFK for you ;) |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.26 10:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
The only constant is change; need an official word on the progress. |
Alex Smoke
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
47
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Posted - 2013.07.27 12:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump. |
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