DUST Search - Children of New Eden, let us unite as children of God

Void Echo wrote:

Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:

Void Echo wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

I would like to see you explain the Ammatar who formerly were minmatar and now embrace the faith, also that many of the emacipated slaves of Jamyll Sarums proclaimation returned to the Empire, and many more returned to the republic and continued their observances of the Amarri Faith.

Um ... Void Echo, since you seem to think that pointing out that many of the freed former slaves immigrated to the Republic is a complete argument, you may want to consider this:

What is the difference between a returnee who openly practices an evangelical foreign faith ... and a missionary?

Many among the Amarr consider conversion at swordpoint outdated; apparently the previous two emperors held just such beliefs. For those whose primary concern is avoiding bloodshed (not to mention mass enslavement), this is a great step forward. For those of us who mostly want to practice our own native faiths in peace?

Thank the spirits the State isn't a religiously open society.

I used this example merely to show that the freed minmatar chose to return to the republic and not stay within amarrian borders

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Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 369	Posted - 2013.07.08 16:50:00 - [91] - Quote Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Void Echo wrote: True Adamance wrote: I would like to see you explain the Ammatar who formerly were minmatar and now embrace the faith, also that many of the emacipated slaves of Jamyll Sarums proclaimation returned to the Empire, and many more returned to the republic and continued their observances of the Amarri Faith. Um ... Void Echo, since you seem to think that pointing out that many of the freed former slaves immigrated to the Republic is a complete argument, you may want to consider this: What is the difference between a returnee who openly practices an evangelical foreign faith ... and a missionary? Many among the Amarr consider conversion at swordpoint outdated; apparently the previous two emperors held just such beliefs. For those whose primary concern is avoiding bloodshed (not to mention mass enslavement), this is a great step forward. For those of us who mostly want to practice our own native faiths in peace? Thank the spirits the State isn't a religiously open society. I used this example merely to show that the freed minmatar chose to return to the republic and not stay within amarrian borders
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 265	Posted - 2013.07.08 17:03:00 - [92] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Void Echo wrote: True Adamance wrote: I would like to see you explain the Ammatar who formerly were minmatar and now embrace the faith, also that many of the emacipated slaves of Jamyll Sarums proclaimation returned to the Empire, and many more returned to the republic and continued their observances of the Amarri Faith. Um ... Void Echo, since you seem to think that pointing out that many of the freed former slaves immigrated to the Republic is a complete argument, you may want to consider this: What is the difference between a returnee who openly practices an evangelical foreign faith ... and a missionary? Many among the Amarr consider conversion at swordpoint outdated; apparently the previous two emperors held just such beliefs. For those whose primary concern is avoiding bloodshed (not to mention mass enslavement), this is a great step forward. For those of us who mostly want to practice our own native faiths in peace? Thank the spirits the State isn't a religiously open society. I used this example merely to show that the freed minmatar chose to return to the republic and not stay within amarrian borders Yet they continue to practice the Amarr faith. As Yun Hee Ryeon stated, how is that different from a missionary?
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 4	Posted - 2013.07.08 17:06:00 - [93] - Quote Void Echo wrote: I used this example merely to show that the freed minmatar chose to return to the republic and not stay within amarrian borders Many did, yes. I responded as I did to suggest that perhaps they did not do so for the reasons you hint at, or not for those reasons alone. With respect, you seem to be attempting to pick specific points of validation out of a complex set of circumstances. Perhaps these migrants wished to live alongside their blood relatives. Perhaps they wished to foster peace between the Amarr and the Matari. Perhaps they hated living under Amarrian rule (yet nevertheless believe in the Amarrian god). Perhaps they wanted to ensure that their families converted to the "true faith." Any and all of these are possible, and probably all are true in some cases-- but how many? I'm curious about the full truth, but it's really none of my business. Perhaps some party closer to the situation will take a poll?
Kador Ouryon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 88	Posted - 2013.07.08 22:28:00 - [94] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Void Echo wrote: True Adamance wrote: I would like to see you explain the Ammatar who formerly were minmatar and now embrace the faith, also that many of the emacipated slaves of Jamyll Sarums proclaimation returned to the Empire, and many more returned to the republic and continued their observances of the Amarri Faith. Um ... Void Echo, since you seem to think that pointing out that many of the freed former slaves immigrated to the Republic is a complete argument, you may want to consider this: What is the difference between a returnee who openly practices an evangelical foreign faith ... and a missionary? Many among the Amarr consider conversion at swordpoint outdated; apparently the previous two emperors held just such beliefs. For those whose primary concern is avoiding bloodshed (not to mention mass enslavement), this is a great step forward. For those of us who mostly want to practice our own native faiths in peace? Thank the spirits the State isn't a religiously open society. I used this example merely to show that the freed minmatar chose to return to the republic and not stay within amarrian borders Yes we have not issues with them being with their families but what pleases us is that they returned to the Minmatar with their Faith.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:17:00 - [95] - Quote Point out the Scripture that gave amarr the right to "induce hardship" on non believers. I've read it, but I don't think I've understood our holy book.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 544	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:19:00 - [96] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Point out the Scripture that gave amarr the right to "induce hardship" on non believers. I've read it, but I don't think I've understood our holy book. Its this one here "Only through many hardships Is a man stripped to his very foundations And in such a state Devoid of distractions Is his soul free to soar And in this He is closest to God" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 30	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:26:00 - [97] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Point out the Scripture that gave amarr the right to "induce hardship" on non believers. I've read it, but I don't think I've understood our holy book. Its this one here "Only through many hardships Is a man stripped to his very foundations And in such a state Devoid of distractions Is his soul free to soar And in this He is closest to God" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5 What I don't understand is how any other empire's creation would have any less hardships, if not more with how rich in natural material it still is today. Also, could you explain how this justifies performing what should solely be god's duty?
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 544	Posted - 2013.07.11 04:36:00 - [98] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Point out the Scripture that gave amarr the right to "induce hardship" on non believers. I've read it, but I don't think I've understood our holy book. Its this one here "Only through many hardships Is a man stripped to his very foundations And in such a state Devoid of distractions Is his soul free to soar And in this He is closest to God" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5 What I don't understand is how any other empire's creation would have any less hardships, if not more with how rich in natural material it still is today. Also, could you explain how this justifies performing what should solely be god's duty? Its is not about wealth or power it is about Faith. The Amarr toiled for centuries to bring about the empire they have now, and even more so our people still toil defending this great empire is war and conflict despite that we do not wish for it. While it is true we do not wish for it we do need to engage in it and thus the Amarrians themselves suffer as a people greatly, we do not expect subjugate races to fight our wars, that is our duty on their behalf, and that while we fight for them, they serve us in the same manner, and as one whole people we succed where others fail.
Yun Hee Ryeon Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 55	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:00:00 - [99] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: What I don't understand is how any other empire's creation would have any less hardships, if not more with how rich in natural material it still is today. Also, could you explain how this justifies performing what should solely be god's duty? Soldier, with respect, you are not the first to seek to try to prove, to yourself or others, that the Empire is morally indefensible. Some have even seemed to think themselves successful. The sad fact of the matter seems to be that, if we take the Amarr on their own terms, they are merely struggling to carry out their god's will in the flawed way of mortals. They are largely genuine in their belief, and largely firm in their faith. As a people, they do not even seem to be especially cruel. Testing their internal integrity will not satisfy, soldier. The trouble comes if we look at them on our own terms. It is from without, not within, that they give cause for fear. How much cause, seems to depend on who is looking.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 423	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:06:00 - [100] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Point out the Scripture that gave amarr the right to "induce hardship" on non believers. I've read it, but I don't think I've understood our holy book. Its this one here "Only through many hardships Is a man stripped to his very foundations And in such a state Devoid of distractions Is his soul free to soar And in this He is closest to God" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 42:5 What I don't understand is how any other empire's creation would have any less hardships, if not more with how rich in natural material it still is today. Also, could you explain how this justifies performing what should solely be god's duty? You do not question faith to find faith, for that goes against its very nature. Do not seek to understand the faith, seek to know the faith. Follow in the guidance of our Empress and I assure you, you will find what you are seeking. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited. Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin. Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder. Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life. The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual." - The Scriptures, Book I, The Code of Demeanor

Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 38	Posted - 2013.07.11 05:17:00 - [101] - Quote But how can you follow it if even you, who I assume to be devoted your whole life, don't understand it? I understand that faith is following what you have no proof of, but in my eyes that would be for not actually seeing god.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 549	Posted - 2013.07.11 06:49:00 - [102] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: But how can you follow it if even you, who I assume to be devoted your whole life, don't understand it? I understand that faith is following what you have no proof of, but in my eyes that would be for not actually seeing god. Understand takes a life time. We have not yet even begun to live our immortal lives and yet we shall continue to be for all time, understanding of what our fore father have learnt over centuries will take time. Now at this present time we take what we hold to be true on Faith, and in our faith we find the Faith. God is benevolent, he bestowed our people with the wisdom and knowledge to know of his existence and as such it is our duty to bring him to all corners of the cluster. To seek to master God, by ignoring his teaching, to pursue him without belief is the path to heresy. "So instructed the Queen to her champion, GÇÿBeware the righteous who seek truth in spirit alone; The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word, Great misery follows those who heed what only the weak have heard. Heed me champion, for only you shall know; Within the blue ring of fire lies the final key of revelation. Find this ring, my champion, and both mind and spirit shall be strong once more.GÇÖ" - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 Those who seek the truth is spirit alone without Faith will only bring misery to themselves, they are the weak, the are those who dare to blaspheme and judge with self imposed importance that which God provides. Heresy must be rooted out. It cannot be allowed to spread, for in heresy lies betrayal and sin.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 427	Posted - 2013.07.11 08:33:00 - [103] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: But how can you follow it if even you, who I assume to be devoted your whole life, don't understand it? I understand that faith is following what you have no proof of, but in my eyes that would be for not actually seeing god. There you go again, questioning what you cannot understand and coming to your own false conclusions. This is why you will not be saved. You must come to grips that God is all powerful. We may not understand His ways, but we do not need to. We know Him. Tell me, do you even understand how your implant works to all the finest details? Yet you accept it nonetheless and have faith that each time you die your conscious will be transferred to a fresh clone.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 43	Posted - 2013.07.11 19:50:00 - [104] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: But how can you follow it if even you, who I assume to be devoted your whole life, don't understand it? I understand that faith is following what you have no proof of, but in my eyes that would be for not actually seeing god. There you go again, questioning what you cannot understand and coming to your own false conclusions. This is why you will not be saved. You must come to grips that God is all powerful. We may not understand His ways, but we do not need to. We know Him. Tell me, do you even understand how your implant works to all the finest details? Yet you accept it nonetheless and have faith that each time you die your conscious will be transferred to a fresh clone. I trust it because it has been active in my existence, unlike your god which has done nothing for me. Without this implant I would've died long ago, since I assume you've read my story, tell me how it would be any different?
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 550	Posted - 2013.07.11 22:36:00 - [105] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: But how can you follow it if even you, who I assume to be devoted your whole life, don't understand it? I understand that faith is following what you have no proof of, but in my eyes that would be for not actually seeing god. There you go again, questioning what you cannot understand and coming to your own false conclusions. This is why you will not be saved. You must come to grips that God is all powerful. We may not understand His ways, but we do not need to. We know Him. Tell me, do you even understand how your implant works to all the finest details? Yet you accept it nonetheless and have faith that each time you die your conscious will be transferred to a fresh clone. I trust it because it has been active in my existence, unlike your god which has done nothing for me. Without this implant I would've died long ago, since I assume you've read my story, tell me how it would be any different? God does not do what we ask, only guides us, God is in everthing we see, we touch, everything we perceive. It was God's grace that I received this implant and was chosen to be a part of the Templar Project. It was he would saved me from death on Ammamake when the Matari overran our lines. You are one from many races, you have trod all paths and yet you still feel compelled to seek out this path, why is that? Unfortunately it may well be too late for you.... "To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21 You sins are many. Freeing convert who were to be shown the light of God, theft from a Holder, affiliation with aggressive renegade Minmatar and Sanmatar factions, but worst of all is knowing your true amarrian heritage and still not following the faith. The Faith you held onto was weak, and we shall never truly know whether it may be strengthened.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 51	Posted - 2013.07.12 03:43:00 - [106] - Quote Now that I've given it some thought, I believe it is our god who lead me here. Now that I know my curiosity will have to be solved over my immortal "lifespan" or left gnawing at the back of my mind for what could possibly be all of the rest of time, my choice is clear.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 554	Posted - 2013.07.12 03:50:00 - [107] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: Now that I've given it some thought, I believe it is our god who lead me here. Now that I know my curiosity will have to be solved over my immortal "lifespan" or left gnawing at the back of my mind for what could possibly be all of the rest of time, my choice is clear. Yet even so you led another path knowing of God..... whether there is hope for you is not ours to decide. The Theology Council will make such rulings.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 52	Posted - 2013.07.12 04:42:00 - [108] - Quote So what is my next step?
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 554	Posted - 2013.07.12 05:03:00 - [109] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: So what is my next step? That is dependent on your sincerity and the ruling of the Theology Council.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 52	Posted - 2013.07.12 05:32:00 - [110] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: So what is my next step? That is dependent on your sincerity and the ruling of the Theology Council. I wouldn't return to the peopleI wronged if I wasn't sincere.

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 554	Posted - 2013.07.12 06:21:00 - [111] - Quote Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: So what is my next step? That is dependent on your sincerity and the ruling of the Theology Council. I wouldn't return to the peopleI wronged if I wasn't sincere. Sincerity is good. But it does not absolve sin.
Cormack's Modified Griefer Expert Intervention Caldari State 56	Posted - 2013.07.12 08:32:00 - [112] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cormack's Modified Griefer wrote: So what is my next step? That is dependent on your sincerity and the ruling of the Theology Council. I wouldn't return to the peopleI wronged if I wasn't sincere. Sincerity is good. But it does not absolve sin. I have come to terms with that unnerving fact
Orin Issa Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 12:19:00 - [113] - Quote I have always given great prestige towards the Amarrians and their faith. So convicted in their beliefs and adherent to their god. Though your stance on slavery is an interesting one to say the least. As an Achur I have gone to great lengths to understand the universe and our race of men. It is of no doubt we are all spiritually linked, but why then rinse every civilization of its identity? We have so much to learn from each other, as I have from you.
Templar Twelve PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5	Posted - 2013.07.14 09:15:00 - [114] - Quote Orin Issa wrote: I have always given great prestige towards the Amarrians and their faith. So convicted in their beliefs and adherent to their god. Though your stance on slavery is an interesting one to say the least. As an Achur I have gone to great lengths to understand the universe and our race of men. It is of no doubt we are all spiritually linked, but why then rinse every civilization of its identity? We have so much to learn from each other, as I have from you. We Amarr document and archive everything we come upon. And learning is obviously only fruitful in the ways of God. Learning under corrupted terms and about diplomatic lies never yields promised results. Learning even more on Tribal languages and nomadic life is something we transcended thousands of years ago. And remember that we studied the Matari race for more than a hundred years prior to their reclaiming. If anything, we are already learning other technology from our allies, and although we might respect their capitalistic views, that is nothing we would like to adhere to in our Empire.


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